Discussion
I will be travelling to the UK within the next weeks and would like to buy redline water wetter (coolant additive). This seems to be a very good product but is not available over here.
Can anybody recommend me where I can buy it in the UK, or is anyway it available at all gas stations?
Thanks,
Peter
Can anybody recommend me where I can buy it in the UK, or is anyway it available at all gas stations?
Thanks,
Peter
Stig said:
Hmmmm... mixed opinions on this. I used it and it didn't make a difference at all!
The best conductor of heat is good old, plain water.
Not true. And if you used good old plain water in most engines, you'd have all sorts of crud in the cooling system before long.
Have a look at the science behind these sort of products before you make sweeping statements about them, Stig.
FWIW, my experience of the Redline product: used in my father in laws car, has utterly transformed the cooling system. No more "Russian Roulette" with the temp gauge in traffic now.
GregE240 said:
Hmmmm... mixed opinions on this. I used it and it didn't make a difference at all!
The best conductor of heat is good old, plain water.
Not true. And if you used good old plain water in most engines, you'd have all sorts of crud in the cooling system before long.
Have a look at the science behind these sort of products before you make sweeping statements about them, Stig.
FWIW, my experience of the Redline product: used in my father in laws car, has utterly transformed the cooling system. No more "Russian Roulette" with the temp gauge in traffic now.
Greg - I'm restraining myself from just telling you to
right off. I did plenty of research when I was looking at these products when trying to sort my own cooling issues out.
That's why I said 'mixed opinions' - some say it's worked, some don't. So you expect people to blinbly shell out 15 quid or so based on your father in law's experience. In what car I wonder???
So before YOU accuse people of making sweeping statements - get you
ing facts straight. Have you got an Ultima - No
Have you had experience of using water wetter in one - No
Do you how much/little I know about the products - No
So bu99er off.
Woah there mate. No offence intended - at all!
Sorry, I looked at the post when I made it and thought "He could get the wrong end of the stick here and think I'm having a pop". I certainly wasn't.
I was just recounting my experience of the product, that was all, and it was nothing as exotic as an Ultima (RS2000 actually, he said in a small voice)
Stig, I'm sorry you were drawn to make comments like that, I just thought I would post my (positive) experience with the product.
Having used neat water (well, nearly) in a Rover V8 engined car, I have first hand experience of the bottom half of the rad choking up with crap! Never again - thats what anti freeze is for then...
Greg
Sorry, I looked at the post when I made it and thought "He could get the wrong end of the stick here and think I'm having a pop". I certainly wasn't.
I was just recounting my experience of the product, that was all, and it was nothing as exotic as an Ultima (RS2000 actually, he said in a small voice)
Stig, I'm sorry you were drawn to make comments like that, I just thought I would post my (positive) experience with the product.
Having used neat water (well, nearly) in a Rover V8 engined car, I have first hand experience of the bottom half of the rad choking up with crap! Never again - thats what anti freeze is for then...
Greg
Have calmed down a bit now! Thanks for the apology anyway.
In no way did I mean that you should run with plain water (certainly not tap!!) or, as you say, the cooling system will soon corrode itself to death.
But, as I said, surfactants give different results depending on their application.
This article makes for some interesing reading and goes someway to explaining why it does/does not work in various applications
[url]http://e30m3performance.com/myths/more_myths1/Water_Wetter/water_wetter.htm[/url]
In no way did I mean that you should run with plain water (certainly not tap!!) or, as you say, the cooling system will soon corrode itself to death.
But, as I said, surfactants give different results depending on their application.
This article makes for some interesing reading and goes someway to explaining why it does/does not work in various applications
[url]http://e30m3performance.com/myths/more_myths1/Water_Wetter/water_wetter.htm[/url]
thanks for all the interesting reading!
Still don´t know where to actually buy it, but I am still convinced that I want to try it. Looks like that if it will not help, at least it should not do any harm.
Just a question: I suppose that it is still necessary to use in addition to Watter Wetter some anti freeze. Could anybody advise on the right mix (%) of water, Water Wetter and anti freeze?
Peter
Still don´t know where to actually buy it, but I am still convinced that I want to try it. Looks like that if it will not help, at least it should not do any harm.
Just a question: I suppose that it is still necessary to use in addition to Watter Wetter some anti freeze. Could anybody advise on the right mix (%) of water, Water Wetter and anti freeze?
Peter
Stig said:
...blinbly shell out 15 quid or so .....
Millers was £5.50 (ish IIRC) a bottle from by local Motorist Discount center.
Use it and Water Wetter in the Griff and noticed no difference between the two BUT noticed it generally worked better than not having it at all. My temp seems to 'spike' a lot less. I also run a 20% mix of antifreeze aswell.
Noticed a difference in the Ultima as well, however my SB is no where near as meaty as Stigs
Ultimacz, yes you need to run some antifreeze as well, for two reasons. First, the glycol component, which makes up about 95% of commercial antifreeze products, will reduce the freezing temperature and elevate the boiling temperature. To my mind, reducing the freezing point is the most important, and dictates what proportion of antifreeze to use.
The second component of commercial antifreeze is the corrosion inhibitor package. Most commercial antifreezes are compounded to result in the correct level of corrosion inhibitor when belnded 50:50 with water. Glycol, however, does not conduct heat as well as water, so in a high performance engine, the higher the proportion of water, the better the cooling. Thus, many high performance enthusiasts prefer to use 20 - 30% antifreeze.
If you go with a lower level of antifreeze you might consider a supplemental corrosion inhibitor package. Also, it is a good idea to use distilled water instead of tap water, especially if the local tap water is hard (high in calcium and magnesium salts). Hardness at high temperature will result in insulating scale buildup at the hottest points in the engine.
Another alternative is the use of pure propylene glycol (1,2-propanediol) as the coolant. There are a few suppliers with very high prices for inhibited PG, but some users just use pure glycol. PG's cooling capacity is less than water's, but its boiling point is 189C at sea level pressure, so the tendency for localized boiling at engine hot spots is much lower that either water alone or water/glycol mixes. The absense of water in the pure PG goes a long way to inhibiting corrosion.
Peter
The second component of commercial antifreeze is the corrosion inhibitor package. Most commercial antifreezes are compounded to result in the correct level of corrosion inhibitor when belnded 50:50 with water. Glycol, however, does not conduct heat as well as water, so in a high performance engine, the higher the proportion of water, the better the cooling. Thus, many high performance enthusiasts prefer to use 20 - 30% antifreeze.
If you go with a lower level of antifreeze you might consider a supplemental corrosion inhibitor package. Also, it is a good idea to use distilled water instead of tap water, especially if the local tap water is hard (high in calcium and magnesium salts). Hardness at high temperature will result in insulating scale buildup at the hottest points in the engine.
Another alternative is the use of pure propylene glycol (1,2-propanediol) as the coolant. There are a few suppliers with very high prices for inhibited PG, but some users just use pure glycol. PG's cooling capacity is less than water's, but its boiling point is 189C at sea level pressure, so the tendency for localized boiling at engine hot spots is much lower that either water alone or water/glycol mixes. The absense of water in the pure PG goes a long way to inhibiting corrosion.
Peter
ultimacz said:
thanks for all the interesting reading!
Still don´t know where to actually buy it, but I am still convinced that I want to try it. Looks like that if it will not help, at least it should not do any harm.
Just a question: I suppose that it is still necessary to use in addition to Watter Wetter some anti freeze. Could anybody advise on the right mix (%) of water, Water Wetter and anti freeze?
Peter
In the part of the world that you live Peter, you'll probably need a fairly high concentration of antifreeze. The amount to use varies with your expected lowest temperature, and you will find the suggested amounts on the side of the antifreeze bottle.
You won't need much water wetter (or whatever you choose to use). The amount that you need will be dependant on the volume of your cooling system. Again, look on the side of the bottle, and you'll know instantly
James
I've tried water wetter and it didn't seem to make a massive improvement but I think it did help stabilise the temp. The std cooling capacity seems to be about 18-19 litres (depending on block filling, size, etc). I put one bottle of WW (treats 15 litres) in a 33% mix of anti-freeze. I'm running as high a mix as this for the inevitable winter's day when I take to to somewhere like Knockhill (very exposed) and park it for an hour or two while the sun goes down....where it is very easy to get to -10 degrees C.
Even in quite cool 7 degree C weather I can't get the car to temp cycle the rad fans with the front bodywork down and a 1k rpm idle. With the bodywork up they cycle pretty quickly even in 25 degree summer heat (it's all relative). I plan on replacing the front topside grill with some 1/2" stainless mesh like the underside as I feel the std grill is a little too restrictive (though it looks nice)...just as soon as I find a supplier. A lower idle might also help as my car seems to be limited by the air<->water transfer rate on the rad rather than the engine<->water transfer rate.
Even in quite cool 7 degree C weather I can't get the car to temp cycle the rad fans with the front bodywork down and a 1k rpm idle. With the bodywork up they cycle pretty quickly even in 25 degree summer heat (it's all relative
). I plan on replacing the front topside grill with some 1/2" stainless mesh like the underside as I feel the std grill is a little too restrictive (though it looks nice)...just as soon as I find a supplier. A lower idle might also help as my car seems to be limited by the air<->water transfer rate on the rad rather than the engine<->water transfer rate.I used plain water mixed with Redline water wetter all summer. 11:1 Compression, 100+ Degrees F ambient, never had a cooling problem. In winter I drained and installed Propylene Glycol AF. The Redline product resists corrosion, lubricates the water pump seal, and aids heat transfer.
jeff
jeff
james said:I've just been in Prague for the weekend
In the part of the world that you live Peter, you'll probably need a fairly high concentration of antifreeze. The amount to use varies with your expected lowest temperature, and you will find the suggested amounts on the side of the antifreeze bottle.
and would suggest Peter will need antifreeze. Lots of it. On Saturday the temp rose to the dizzy heights of -7°C in the afternoon having been down to -22°C overnight (about -8°F).You are right, it is pretty cold over here. But I drive the GTR only from April till October, anyway. Otherwise it sits in the garage. Had already a high-adrenaline experience with driving on a cold day due to less grip of the tyres. Makes a hell of a difference and one should be prepared when accelerating out of a corner...
Gassing Station | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff