sorry to bring up old subject
Discussion
I appologise for dredging up what some may see as old news but i only recently found this site.I have read thru some of the discussions about Kayla Young and Amy Jones who will killed by 2 speeding drunk drivers.....A lot of what has been said is subject to bad reporting but as the mother of Kayla I would like to put a few of the facts straight.The drunk driver was a consistent offender.......the guy he was racing wasnt drunk,just stupid.Someone said that 87mph wasnt unreasonable for a dual carriageway....if that was true why bother with a 70mph speed limit?This is a bypass that goes past a village...it starts at 30 goes to 50 then to 70...in a built up area of sorts past a public footpath........when the car hit the girls it was estimated to be doing 87mph tho that was taking into account the car going over the central reservation spinning around,and mounting the pavement......its ok for people to have their own opinions on speed but if anyone could see the "mess" or if it was their child they might slow down a bit......appologies for waffling but its something i obviously feel very strongly about.
Im a bit divided on the use of cameras....they do work on the roads here......but we dont have many...just a couple in built up areas on long straight roads that have 30mph limits....they wouldnt help with the tosser who pumped his brakes instead of pressing them "cos it uses less pads".
Believe it or not we do understand Chrissie.
Most people on PH drive cars that are fast in the extreme, but they dont automatically do it on all roads and speed willy nilly everywhere.
Some have had specialized driver training run by former(and some serving) traffic officers to improve their skills.
The scum that killed your daughter was just that; scum.
These kinds of people are now being represented by some in the road safety lobby as examples of what all other drivers are like. Its simply not true.He is as far removed from normal drivers as its possible to be.
I seriously doubt that a speed camera would have made any difference to his actions on the day in question.
A hardened serial offender who was going to do what "he" wanted come what may and who simply didnt/dosent care about anyone except himself.
If there were more trafpols out there instead of speed cameras, its possible he may have been stopped and dealt with before he got into the situation which took the life of your child.
None of this helps you though, that i do know.
I think i can safely speak for eveyone here by saying you have our sympathy and our support.
Most people on PH drive cars that are fast in the extreme, but they dont automatically do it on all roads and speed willy nilly everywhere.
Some have had specialized driver training run by former(and some serving) traffic officers to improve their skills.
The scum that killed your daughter was just that; scum.
These kinds of people are now being represented by some in the road safety lobby as examples of what all other drivers are like. Its simply not true.He is as far removed from normal drivers as its possible to be.
I seriously doubt that a speed camera would have made any difference to his actions on the day in question.
A hardened serial offender who was going to do what "he" wanted come what may and who simply didnt/dosent care about anyone except himself.
If there were more trafpols out there instead of speed cameras, its possible he may have been stopped and dealt with before he got into the situation which took the life of your child.
None of this helps you though, that i do know.
I think i can safely speak for eveyone here by saying you have our sympathy and our support.
One of the problems I think is that the majority of our A roads are well engineered travel routes - hence a 70 mph speed limit isn't unreasonable, if its separated by an armco barrier etc.
Unfortunately what tends to happen with a lot of A roads is that the land use either sides drastically changes over the years. In my city for example our 3 worse A roads have all had a mix of retail and urban development on either side. This has lead to a lot more junctions being implemented and increased traffic all round - net result massive increase in accidents. The solution here? Of course they have put in speed cameras. Net result? no real reduction in accidents but a reduction in severity so no real solution.
From your description Chrissie, IMO 80 mph is totally unreasonable 70 mph to high and possibly 60mph as well. Once that land use changes (or of course they build the road straight through a village
) theres no way you can travel at speed - especially if the road isn't straight. Why a "bypass" should have multiple speed limits is beyond me - its meant to be an engineered road to avoid potential problems - it seems the land has changed over time surrounding it.
Speed cameras limiting that road to lets say 40mph won't be much help (for pedestrians) - lets say they put them in - any pedestrian hit at 40 mph has an incredibly slim chance of survival. What needs to happen is whats called "route treatment". Rather than just looking at one little stretch of the road and putting in a quick fix, they take a look at, lets say 20-50 miles of the road and go through the lot seeing what has to be done - in this case absolutely armco barriers and some sort of barriers for pedestrians or segregation by distance of the footpath - if that means buying up surrounding land and shaving a few farmers fields or car parks - so be it.
Chrissie I realise this is a subject close to the heart - have you had a look at the RoadPeace or Brake websites? They both offer support for the victims and families of road accidents - if you havn't already have a chat with them, give them a call. To many people forget that the accident is only the beginning of the process - I regularly put people in touch with them when I attend Coroner's meetings for road accidents or when people phone into the Council.
While 99% of people who post on these boards might not like their all Brake and RoadPeace's policies, I doubt to many would argue with that service they run.
Email me if you want any help. Address is reachable through my profile on this site.
>> Edited by Kurgis on Thursday 22 January 10:32
Unfortunately what tends to happen with a lot of A roads is that the land use either sides drastically changes over the years. In my city for example our 3 worse A roads have all had a mix of retail and urban development on either side. This has lead to a lot more junctions being implemented and increased traffic all round - net result massive increase in accidents. The solution here? Of course they have put in speed cameras. Net result? no real reduction in accidents but a reduction in severity so no real solution.
From your description Chrissie, IMO 80 mph is totally unreasonable 70 mph to high and possibly 60mph as well. Once that land use changes (or of course they build the road straight through a village
) theres no way you can travel at speed - especially if the road isn't straight. Why a "bypass" should have multiple speed limits is beyond me - its meant to be an engineered road to avoid potential problems - it seems the land has changed over time surrounding it. Speed cameras limiting that road to lets say 40mph won't be much help (for pedestrians) - lets say they put them in - any pedestrian hit at 40 mph has an incredibly slim chance of survival. What needs to happen is whats called "route treatment". Rather than just looking at one little stretch of the road and putting in a quick fix, they take a look at, lets say 20-50 miles of the road and go through the lot seeing what has to be done - in this case absolutely armco barriers and some sort of barriers for pedestrians or segregation by distance of the footpath - if that means buying up surrounding land and shaving a few farmers fields or car parks - so be it.
Chrissie I realise this is a subject close to the heart - have you had a look at the RoadPeace or Brake websites? They both offer support for the victims and families of road accidents - if you havn't already have a chat with them, give them a call. To many people forget that the accident is only the beginning of the process - I regularly put people in touch with them when I attend Coroner's meetings for road accidents or when people phone into the Council.
While 99% of people who post on these boards might not like their all Brake and RoadPeace's policies, I doubt to many would argue with that service they run.
Email me if you want any help. Address is reachable through my profile on this site.
>> Edited by Kurgis on Thursday 22 January 10:32
I am sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at all drivers,im not.I have lost 3 friends aswell as my daughter and Amy and they all died due to speeding.We all used to go to manby showground and cadwell so im not against speed when its in the right place under the right conditions....but people who complain about getting fined when "i was only a bit over the limit" should count themselves lucky and maybe think the limits are there for their safety as well as others. Thankyou for your understanding.....im not a moaning old cow really...
I like all on this site are appalled at what he did. Driving is a privelidge and a responsability, scum like him ignore that, usually with, as in you case, tragic consiquences.
We all feel for your loss and while we cannot fully comprehend what you must have been, and still be going through, we offer our support and sympathy.
Your daughters death should not be hijacked by people with a seperate adjenda. In my opinion it is disrespectfull and makes a mockery of all that is decent. A speed camera would almost certainly made no difference, yet that is what is proposed. Where as it is possible, had a barrier been there, things may have turned out differently.
Refusing a barrier on cost grounds is IMO appaling.
Please Accept our deepest condolences.
>> Edited by chief-0369 on Thursday 22 January 11:03
We all feel for your loss and while we cannot fully comprehend what you must have been, and still be going through, we offer our support and sympathy.
Your daughters death should not be hijacked by people with a seperate adjenda. In my opinion it is disrespectfull and makes a mockery of all that is decent. A speed camera would almost certainly made no difference, yet that is what is proposed. Where as it is possible, had a barrier been there, things may have turned out differently.
Refusing a barrier on cost grounds is IMO appaling.
Please Accept our deepest condolences.
>> Edited by chief-0369 on Thursday 22 January 11:03
chrissie said:
im not a moaning old cow really...
No, I think that would be the last thing that anyone could accuse you of being.... its perfectly fine to add a personal perspective to the discussions - even if it is very tragic.
I sympathise with you but cannot comprehend what you have been through - as a high mileage driver I see shocking driving hourly and it amazes me that people get away with it. Unfortunately the bizzare situation that we have got ourselves doesnt help in the long term. Speed isnt the single issue - its a combination of many different factors. As you mentioned, the killer (cos that is what the scum is) was a consistent re-offender. We (collective term for the criminal justice system / government / local government / police et al) have failed to prevent this occurring - the signs should have been noticed and he should have been stopped before this happened. "we" didnt and it ended with tragic consequences.....
I for one was someone who applauded that some decent prison sentences were handed down. Admittedly not as high as I would have liked, but as I mentioned at the time "a bit more like it". I am sick to by back teeth of hearing of drunk drivers, dangerous cars or disqualified / uninsured drivers getting away with a slap on the wrist - in some high profile cases people have died and drunk drivers have got away with a 12 months suspended sentence..... its not good enough. If the criminal justice system is supposed to be a deterent - then make it one..... I hope that those put away for this spend a long time rotting in a hell-hole and do not get any form of early release or parole...
As I mentioned above - my deepest sympathy for your loss.
Hill was already banned so had no insurance, priestly had no insurance they got no seperate penalties for that tho Hill got an extra year for giving false details previously.......he got a total of 9 yrs.....Priestly got 5 and a half....he is eligable for parole in 22 months.There is a appeal by the CPS in the pipeline for Priestlys short sentence........they said either car couldve come off the road and caused the accident so they shouldve got similar sentences.
chrissie said:
Priestly got 5 and a half....he is eligable for parole in 22 months.
OH MY GOD - 22 months.... when will we ever learn. That is no way good enough. Gets 5 1/2 years and eligable for parole after 22 months.... makes a mockery of the criminal justice system (though I am aware that this is standard). Its just crap.... my faith in justice in this country has long gone, but this is ridiculous...
I must first of all sympathise with your tragic loss; as responsible and 'real' drivers we , without exception, are appalled and horrified by this type of incident. Secondly, I applaud your sensible and mature attitude. If only everyone exhibited your rational approach, I am sure that at least some progress could be made on this, and other issues. I do hope that something good can come out of this, our thoughts are with you.
Having read the threads on this subject it is a very sorry story, condolences to all involved.
Unfortunately, those that caused this accident obviously had no intention of obeying any laws guidelines or even morals. These people are simply scum who deserve not to be on this planet.
No amount of road engineering is going to stop people like this. Sure enough if these people had not caused an accident at this point in the road, they most definately would have at some other point.
Our stupid laws are partly to blame, why give someone points on a licence they are never going to own. It's nigh on impossible to reverse this situation. Surely these people are never to going to have a licence, tax or insurance, even when they come out of prison.
The vast majority of road deaths are drug or alcahol related, unfortunately catching these people does not raise cash so it's been left aside. Persecution of the normal motorist is the current way forward & this type of accident will continue. It's a very very sad situation this country has gotten into & it's becoming more & more obvious by the day.
Unfortunately, those that caused this accident obviously had no intention of obeying any laws guidelines or even morals. These people are simply scum who deserve not to be on this planet.
No amount of road engineering is going to stop people like this. Sure enough if these people had not caused an accident at this point in the road, they most definately would have at some other point.
Our stupid laws are partly to blame, why give someone points on a licence they are never going to own. It's nigh on impossible to reverse this situation. Surely these people are never to going to have a licence, tax or insurance, even when they come out of prison.
The vast majority of road deaths are drug or alcahol related, unfortunately catching these people does not raise cash so it's been left aside. Persecution of the normal motorist is the current way forward & this type of accident will continue. It's a very very sad situation this country has gotten into & it's becoming more & more obvious by the day.
At the risk of sounding a bit controversial speed cameras must work. Those that are aware of them slow down and those that aren't get caught. Whilst it is debateable whether they would have worked in this case, the fact remains that there is a possibility that the outcome could have been completely different if speed cameras were there and the girls lives could have been saved.
Street racing happens everywhere on a daily basis but you do tend to find (sober) people who do it are that little bit more careful when there are speed cameras about.
Street racing happens everywhere on a daily basis but you do tend to find (sober) people who do it are that little bit more careful when there are speed cameras about.
Ive recieved an email from them today.
Sadly its all the same crap that Chrisse described as coming from them.
Stupid references to Pacts (waste of time and nonsense too) the usual spouting of casualty reduction by 2010 etc etc and how speed cameras cure it all.
Suffice to say ive sent them a strongly worded one back.
Its *possible* they may actually capitulate on this one, i hope so.
I dont think they can afford the negative publicity that will be stirred up by their complacency.
ill keep you posted .
Sadly its all the same crap that Chrisse described as coming from them.
Stupid references to Pacts (waste of time and nonsense too) the usual spouting of casualty reduction by 2010 etc etc and how speed cameras cure it all.
Suffice to say ive sent them a strongly worded one back.
Its *possible* they may actually capitulate on this one, i hope so.
I dont think they can afford the negative publicity that will be stirred up by their complacency.
ill keep you posted .
I realise Members of Parliament are busy people but it hardly gives you any faith. Let me have a chat with my colleagues in Engineering down here see what they say about approaching the Highways Agency.[/quote]
We were told we couldnt approach them ourselves so anything that anyone can do would be greatly appreciated.At the meeting they talked about our girls like they were pieces of meat....not human beings...and everything was down to costings.
We were told we couldnt approach them ourselves so anything that anyone can do would be greatly appreciated.At the meeting they talked about our girls like they were pieces of meat....not human beings...and everything was down to costings.
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