P/ET & SP/ET in Hockenheim 2010

[Benni]

Hello DragHeads,

NitrOlympX #25 will be held from August 13th to 15th in 2010,
and the new organisation staff have included Pro ET and Super Pro ET.
This was a logical move due to two reasons :
The "Public Race" class with the 12:00 index had become a sandbagger-festival,
with almost all cars being able to go into the 11s or 10s,
and saw brakelights at 1000ft with 12.0x @ 90mph.
The P/ET and SP/ET "revival" series that were organized by drivers and enthusiasts
has had a very good start in 08 and growing numbers in 09,
without taking too many racers away from the Super Classes or Comp Eliminator
So now its´s official :
Pro ET with an index between 9:00 and 11:99 and
Super Pro ET with an index between 7:00 and 8:99 will be in the program.
This being an NEAFP race means that racers from europe are allowed,
so I expect an international starter field with close and tough qualifying and eliminations.
The "home track advantage" for german racers is almost non-existant,
as the Hockenheim quartermile is no permanently used track like SPR or SCR.
I am hoping for some british teams to take on this challenge
and show how good they are in dialing their cars to a new track situation.
I also hope that I can explain ET racing to an audience that is used to
"Heads-Up" racing exept for CE, so I will have to talk even more...
CU there ?
Benni

[Miss Information]

We are hoping to go, I've already booked the time off at work

[Eurodragster Tog]

Benni said:

I also hope that I can explain ET racing to an audience that is used to
"Heads-Up" racing exept for CE, so I will have to talk even more

Want to swap? I'll do the explanation and you can do the real-time maths

[Barry B]

Nah Tog, you do the sums and I'll do the guest announcer bit !

[Benni]

Eurodragster Tog said:

Benni said:

I also hope that I can explain ET racing to an audience that is used to
"Heads-Up" racing exept for CE, so I will have to talk even more

Want to swap? I'll do the explanation and you can do the real-time maths

No, thanks, I was notoriously bad at numbers in school.
Since we have never done ET racing in Hockenheim before,
I wonder what the Compulink system is capable of, ET for sure,
but maybe a "win margin" showing on the timing monitor ?
I guess I will have to contact the timing crew about that,
or Mr. Brockmeyer himself.

Another thing about ET racing :
I remember to have read something about US racing in ET classes :
If both racers redlight, the worst red lighter would be eliminated,
not the first one to do it.
What are your thoughts about this ?

[Tet]

Is that true? As far as I was aware, the "first or worst" rule of thumb has always meant that the first to commit a foul is disqualified, unless the opponent commits a worse foul. Thus even if someone has gone red, they can still win the race if the opponent crosses the centre line, which is considered a more serious offence. But for two fouls of the same type (such as a red light), the first to foul is the one to lose. A worse breakout will lose. But worse red light? I've never heard that one before.

[Taximan]

In case of a double redlight, the first red light loses the race. This is in most cases the slower car, because his tree runs first. Faster cars has some advantage because of this.

[Benni]

This ET rule-change was "proposed" for IHRA races in 2010 :
http://www.bangshift.com/blog/IHRA-Considers-Revis...
This news was from September, I don´t follow much USA racing/rules so I don´t know
if there is anything more recent regarding the outcome of this.
There were discussions about this in several forums.

I think this is an interesting thought, since by now the slower car leaving earlier
is the only one to be disqualified for redlighting because he is always "first".
As both racers run a race that is "independent" from the other lane,
going for "good RT and closest to Dial-In", would this be more fair ?
This would neccessiate (wd?) a tree where the lights of the "far-side" lane
are blocked from the view of the "near-side" lane,
so the slower car cannot see if his faster opponent has already redlit.
I don´t know if that is possible in all situations (dusk/night time racing).
Has this happened to any ET racers present here, redlighting more than your slower opponent ?

Edited by Benni on Sunday 22 November 15:46

[Bob Jarrett]

Dam is that complicated or what. Benni I hope your spectators do not have any hangovers from the Saturday night show!!!!!

[Benni]

Hi Bob (and possible Hock ET teams) !

No need to panic, ET rules in germany will stay the way we all are used to it,
maybe it would have been a better idea to open an new topic on the IHRA stuff.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see if the fans on Hockenheim grandstands will "get" ET racing ,
the old orga was "Heads-Up" all the way (except Comp Eli).
I hope that I can get it across the fences, with the slower guy getting a startline advantage.

[Eurodragster Tog]

Benni said:

I hope that I can get it across the fences, with the slower guy getting a startline advantage.

In my experience it is very simple to explain. You've said it yourself that the slower guy gets the advantage, and people understand breakouts and winning on least breakout from the Super classes. There isn't anything else you need to worry about.

[PhilSweeney]

does anybody know if sportsman racers require interational spec licenes to compete out of country ?

Also for Hockenheim,is there any expenses or assistance for overseas racers travel costs ?

[Eurodragster Tog]

PhilSweeney said:

does anybody know if sportsman racers require interational spec licences to compete out of country ?

Give Paula Marshall a call. There's nothing she doesn't know about that sort of thing.

[trackday addict]

Great news Benni - see you there with either the 350z or the skyline depending on whats broken or not broken by the time teh event comes around :-)

[Benni]

PhilSweeney said:

does anybody know if sportsman racers require interational spec licenes to compete out of country ?
Also for Hockenheim,is there any expenses or assistance for overseas racers travel costs ?

Hi Phil,
just out of my head :
I think there are several types of license, at least in the german DMSB (our MSA).
Sportsman / entry level licenses are usually "national only",
I think you have to do an upgrade wich will cost you a fee.
As far as I know, there is no "travel money" for sportsman racers in Hockenheim.
Maybe ask John Tebenham, he raced there for several years,
or the "topless Banana" racers, the Huxleys.
The only way to reduce cost would be finding a "group sponsor" for sponsoring travel/ferry/pits
like the "Crane Cams European Tour" that the Super Gassers were doing years ago.
Cars with stickers etc, and team apparel.........hmmmmm...........,
I can JUST about see it on my (limited) horizon:
"ET tours germany" with a 60s-style-Monster-Hot-Rod-Car-toon of the famous alien
sticking its big head through the roof of an ET car to peek over the blower/birdcatcher,
grabbing a shifter with his stick[l]y fingers...

@John : Yeah, bring it on, and break records not parts in 2010.....

I will try to talk to Hock orga guys before the weekend.

Edited by Benni on Monday 23 November 23:32

[ribaric]

From my perspective, Hockenheim have made a very good decision here. I guess I would say that given my years as an avid Super-Pro fan. However, please beware of a quick fix they use here in the east/central European countries.

They don't believe the spectators will ever understand bracket racing, particularly hole-shot wins where the car with the nearer ET to the dial-in loses. They have mullered the position by using "total time" (ET + RT) so the holehot never happens. Racers here have to dial in (or race to a fixed index - Super gas style) to total time. Imagine trying to dial in your ET + RT combination. Even the trackside scoreboards show "TT", The track announcers use total time. We even have cases where people break out because they cut a good light!!!!!! Aaaarghhhhh!

Try as I might, I can't get anyone to even consider doing it the normal way. Even my argument that "Americans can understand it" hasn't made any difference. Be warned!

[PhilSweeney]

thanks for the response Benni, we'll certainly be trying to get funding to try and make Hockenheim

[Benni]

Eurodragster Tog said:

Benni said:

I also hope that I can explain ET racing to an audience that is used to
"Heads-Up" racing exept for CE, so I will have to talk even more

Want to swap? I'll do the explanation and you can do the real-time maths

Hi IndexHeads,
I rustled up an old Hock time slip by chance (while looking for tax papers-don´t ask),
it was from the "Public Race" class where everyone has an index of 12:00 sec.
On the Time slip, there were some numbers that -by now- don´t show up on the announcers screen :

Left lane : 0.205 RT and 12.012 run
Right lane : 0.272 RT and 11.933

Time slip says "left WIN" (because right-side driver was leadfooting it after snoozing on the tree
which caused him to break out by 0.067 sec)

Time slip says "Right 1st 0.0123" which is the number when you
substract total run times (with RT) L minus R.

Time slip also says "Left MOV (Margin of win?) 0.793 which is the number you get when
you substract run times (without RT) L minus R.

Am I seeing this right ? I told you my comprehension of higher maths was not the best....
Would having these numbers on the screen make the togmeister´s task -and mine- easier ?
And will Bob Brockmeyer lose his bits if we ask him to include Tog´s "magic formula"
that shows the "closeness" of cars in the lights depending on top speeds ?

[SpencerTramm]

To run in a sportsman class abroad you will need to upgrade to a National A license, to do this you will need a supporting letter from Paula Marshall.

Regards
Spencer

[crikey]

Benni said:

Hi IndexHeads,
I rustled up an old Hock time slip by chance (while looking for tax papers-don´t ask),
it was from the "Public Race" class where everyone has an index of 12:00 sec.
On the Time slip, there were some numbers that -by now- don´t show up on the announcers screen :

Left lane : 0.205 RT and 12.012 run
Right lane : 0.272 RT and 11.933

Time slip says "left WIN" (because right-side driver was leadfooting it after snoozing on the tree
which caused him to break out by 0.067 sec)

Time slip says "Right 1st 0.0123" which is the number when you
substract total run times (with RT) L minus R.

Time slip also says "Left MOV (Margin of win?) 0.793 which is the number you get when
you substract run times (without RT) L minus R.

Am I seeing this right ? I told you my comprehension of higher maths was not the best....
Would having these numbers on the screen make the togmeister´s task -and mine- easier ?
And will Bob Brockmeyer lose his bits if we ask him to include Tog´s "magic formula"
that shows the "closeness" of cars in the lights depending on top speeds ?

Hi Benni,

That doesn't entirely make sense, unless you've made a typo. I can't make out where they've got 0.793 as the MOV (margin of victory) from.

It can't really be measued in this instance as the loser (by virtue of breaking out) got to the line first, but he got to the line 0.012 (sticking to 3 decimals) before the vehicle in the left lane so that gives you what the TSI system would refer to as "1st Finish" and what the Hockenheim system in this instance calls "Right 1st".

The only reason I think you may have made a typo is the difference in ET's is 0.079. I suspect the system couldn't handle the actual MOV so used this figure.

Working it out in bracket racing where the cars have different indexes is not terribly hard, you just need to take the difference in index into account (obviously !). I have a spreadsheet that will do that I can email over if you want. I imagine Tog has the same, although he does this stuff in his head, plus he is spoiled by the TSI system at SPR

The way I explain it to people new to the sport is that all drag racing is first to the finish line, but in some classes you can't get there too soon

Edited by crikey on Wednesday 25th November 23:01