Funding The Air Ambulance

[Glassman]

I recently made a donation to the Hertfordshire Air Ambulance Appeal after meeting one of the organisers at a networking event.

Herts Air Ambulance Appeal used to be part of the Herts & Essex AAA, but is now run, or funded, separately. The charity does not qualify for lottery funding and the NHS don't want to know.

So when there's a bad RTA, and the land ambulance isn't going to get the injured party(s) to a hospital in time, we assume / expect the air ambulance will save the day...

I find it odd that the NHS do not put a hand into their pocket to pay for this service.

Edited by Glassman on Wednesday 25th November 09:27

[Famous Graham]

I seem to recall this came up with regard to the RNLI in the massive Hammond thread (RNLI also relies on donations, hence the parallels with the Yorkshire Air Ambulance). It transpired that they actually prefer not being government funded due to the red-tape and incessant bks that goes with it.

[sday12]

Glassman said:

I find it odd that the NHS do not put a hand into their pocket to pay for this service.

9/10 the land ambulance gets there first/ air not required, therefore cannot be rationalised as worthy of a NHS/tax payment. Harsh I know, especially if it was a family member/yourself involved.

[fadeaway]

I agree that it seems stupid for the air ambulances to have to rely on fund raising. But at the end of the day the NHS has to work out how best to spend the money it's given. If the numbers say that the cost of running a helicopter isn't justified by the cost, then do you really want to force them to "waste" the money by paying for one?

[Pothole]

however it's funded, we pay. I used to wonder about it, too. I can well believe the red tape/bullst avoidance theory.

[fathomfive]

Famous Graham said:

I seem to recall this came up with regard to the RNLI in the massive Hammond thread (RNLI also relies on donations, hence the parallels with the Yorkshire Air Ambulance). It transpired that they actually prefer not being government funded due to the red-tape and incessant bks that goes with it.

Given what has happened to the Ambulance (and other Emergency services under government control) over the years, then it's no surprise the Air Ambulance takes this stance.

[williamp]

...Although gordon brown recently called the RNLI an "emergency service" when talking about the floods.

Its crazy that the Police get funding for their helicopters, yet the air ambulance, and RNLI have to rely oncharity donations.

[dwilkie]

Don't forget though the police helicopters spend a lot more time in the air, and from what I remember still have to be shared amongst several forces as well because of the cost involved.

Unlike America where everyone has a helicopter...

[dwilkie]

Thinking about it, I'm fairly sure the coastguard helicopters (here anyway) fill in with non-coastal related mishaps where possible too. I definately remember seeing one on the M27 (I think it was the 27) years ago

[Emsman]

Our village has a fund raiser each year for the air ambulance.

The system of where the traditioanlo ambulance comes from is absurd.

When i blew myself up, i waited for 20 mins for the ambulance, despite the fact there is an ambulance station less than 600 yards from my door.
They dont actually serve the village they are base in though, so you have to sit and wait while one comes from a station in northampton.

The air ambulance lands at the station in the village, its a superb service that has saved countless lives, i cant understand why it runs on donations rather than funding.
Slightly controversial, but having seen the amount (circa £30million) that the NHS spends on translators each year would (i imagine) go some way to covering the cost of a shiny helicopter.

[BigBen]

Went to a talk by Cambs air ambulance last Friday and I got the impression they would love to be funded by the government (as they are in Scotland iirc).

They also gave an interesting fact that service targets mean traditional ambulances are all based in major population centres as the response targets are impossible to meet for rural call outs so they don't try to.

Ben

[sday12]

Emsman said:

Slightly controversial, but having seen the amount (circa £30million) that the NHS spends on translators each year would (i imagine) go some way to covering the cost of a shiny helicopter.

Slightly wrong, even the Daily Wail can't get this figure past £250 K.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078677/25...

I for one would rather that the limited resources that the NHS is given are spent on such things as cancer treatment than some blokes flying around on the off chance the land ambulance can't make it. Feel free to give generously if you feel different.

Edited by sday12 on Wednesday 25th November 10:37

[shirt]

why can't air ambulance missions be flown by the RAF as per coastguard? the forces already use the eurocopter in training so from a maintenance point of view the costs would be manageable.

[Taffer]

shirt said:

why can't air ambulance missions be flown by the RAF as per coastguard? the forces already use the eurocopter in training so from a maintenance point of view the costs would be manageable.

The Coastguard SAR contract (covering Portland, the Shetlands, and a few other sites) is actually held by CHC, who won the contract from Bristow a couple of years back, and together with military assets form the UK's SAR infrastructure. The military SAR is there first and foremost for rescuing downed aircrew - the fact they maintain a civilian SAR capability is a very welcome bonus. However, military SAR has been cut back over the years and it is planned to extend the Coastguard model to the whole country.

The military use the Eurocopter Squirrel and Bell Griffin for training. Only a few police choppers use the Squirrel; AFAIK, most air ambulances are Agusta 109s, Eurocopter EC135/Bo105s, MD Explorers and the like, which tend to be newer and better equipped than military trainers (most of the pilots are ex-RN/AAC though).

We take it for granted that the military do SAR for us, but it is becoming increasingly hard to justify diverting scarce resources such as aircrew and helicopters to these roles when they could be used elsewhere (the majority of RN SAR Sea King pilots have come from operational tours on the Mk.4 Sea King Commando, which has been extensively used in Iraq and Afghanistan).

Edited by Taffer on Wednesday 25th November 12:58

[fatboy b]

The NHS is already broke, and already cutting services left and right. Funding a load of helicopters + 3 or so crews for each is not affordable. Many specialist posts in hospitals are already funded by outside charities.

Edited by fatboy b on Wednesday 25th November 13:16

[Emsman]

sday12 said:

Emsman said:

Slightly controversial, but having seen the amount (circa £30million) that the NHS spends on translators each year would (i imagine) go some way to covering the cost of a shiny helicopter.

Slightly wrong, even the Daily Wail can't get this figure past £250 K.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078677/25...

I for one would rather that the limited resources that the NHS is given are spent on such things as cancer treatment than some blokes flying around on the off chance the land ambulance can't make it. Feel free to give generously if you feel different.

Edited by sday12 on Wednesday 25th November 10:37

Apologies, the figure may have included the police also.
Either way, its money that doesnt ned spending.
I like the view on the cancer treatment though- well said, excepting of course when a member of your family has relied on the helicopter in the past- that makes it a little different.

[BoRED S2upid]

Famous Graham said:

I seem to recall this came up with regard to the RNLI in the massive Hammond thread (RNLI also relies on donations, hence the parallels with the Yorkshire Air Ambulance). It transpired that they actually prefer not being government funded due to the red-tape and incessant bks that goes with it.

I think it was also the case that the RNLI are very well funded without Government assistance and are happy to remain so.

[crikey]

Glassman said:

I recently made a donation to the Hertfordshire Air Ambulance Appeal after meeting one of the organisers at a networking event.

Herts Air Ambulance Appeal used to be part of the Herts & Essex AAA, but is now run, or funded, separately. The charity does not qualify for lottery funding and the NHS don't want to know.

So when there's a bad RTA, and the land ambulance isn't going to get the injured party(s) to a hospital in time, we assume / expect the air ambulance will save the day...

I find it odd that the NHS do not put a hand into their pocket to pay for this service.

Edited by Glassman on Wednesday 25th November 09:27

It’s a numbers game.

The Emergency Operations Centre that handles the calls that the HAA would respond to takes approximately 700 calls a day, of which the HAA would be asked to respond an average of less than 2 per day, and even the majority of those that it does respond to are still conveyed by conventional ambulance.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

It is due to the costs of the ambulance would fund several ambulances and paramedics. The NHS would choose in the first instance to have more ambulances etc before an air ambulance as they would get more benefit from that. The police do fund helicopters but they are at the expense of other resources as they bring a benefit that off-sets their cost. Not all forces can afford or have them

Ask the Ambulance service if they were given the extra few million what they'd rather have. One copter or several 24/7 ambulances. Helicopters are something like 1.5 million a year I think.

[crikey]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

One copter or several 24/7 ambulances.

Another good point, air ambulances only operate during daylight.