Pilgrim Minotaur is it still in production ?

[fuoriserie]

Is the Pilgrim Minotaur still in production ? can't find information on the car...

Does anybody have pictures of the chassis ?

Thanks

[Ferg]

Hey Italo,
Andygtt has a mate who is building one. I think he started before Pilgrim took it on.
Maybe drop him a line on FaceBook??
F

[fuoriserie]

Thanks for the info guys...

[seansverige]

Hope the chassis is better looking than the body...

Was doing some research a while back for a full analysis and maybe a restyle as an academic exercise, but it's buried pretty deep in the 'to do' pile... anyway, found these guys: http://www.simboldesign.com/

They might have some chassis pictures on the website, appear to be agents for the Minotaur, but have done their own body which is a big improvement - owes a lot to the Zonda with a dash of Enzo thrown in.

There's also this build site: http://www.minotaur-kitcar.co.uk/

Wasn't it featured on PH (and others) as recently as last year, maybe even earlier this year, as a turnkey?

[fuoriserie]

seansverige said:

Hope the chassis is better looking than the body...

Was doing some research a while back for a full analysis and maybe a restyle as an academic exercise, but it's buried pretty deep in the 'to do' pile... anyway, found these guys: http://www.simboldesign.com/

They might have some chassis pictures on the website, appear to be agents for the Minotaur, but have done their own body which is a big improvement - owes a lot to the Zonda with a dash of Enzo thrown in.

There's also this build site: http://www.minotaur-kitcar.co.uk/

Wasn't it featured on PH (and others) as recently as last year, maybe even earlier this year, as a turnkey?

Thanks Sean, I had found the italian agents awhile back, but was looking for a build site to see pictures up close of the chassis and body.

The build pictures look really good and the work to fix a few design details in the body shape have improved the design.

I agree with you that a restyling job would be needed and that it could become one of my next projects, if I get the time to do it......

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 26th November 08:25

[seansverige]

It was February - http://www.pistonheads.com/clubmans/default.asp?st...

£65k for a turnkey. Good luck with that....

[fuoriserie]

seansverige said:

It was February - http://www.pistonheads.com/clubmans/default.asp?st...

£65k for a turnkey. Good luck with that....

Thanks........the design could evolve into something else, I would just need a shell for my idea.....

[seansverige]

Even though that hunchbacked rear fender line doesn't need to be quite that high, in any proposed facelift I'd still want to do something about the radiator positioning - if they can't be lowered in their current position, I'd stick 'em out back á la Salica: the slight increase in polar moment of inertia is only relevant some of the time, whereas as ugly is forever...

ETA: on a different topic, what's the Italian situation with regard to body or panel kits? What - if any - kind of inspection would be necessary for panel kit? Been wondering what possibilities the Euro type approved Caterham might offer. Step 1 import & register Caterham, step 2 fit 'bodykit'....

Edited by seansverige on Thursday 26th November 12:59

[fuoriserie]

seansverige said:

ETA: on a different topic, what's the Italian situation with regard to body or panel kits? What - if any - kind of inspection would be necessary for panel kit? Been wondering what possibilities the Euro type approved Caterham might offer. Step 1 import & register Caterham, step 2 fit 'bodykit'....

Edited by seansverige on Thursday 26th November 12:59

It should become a lot easier in the future for panel kits, but the situation at the moment is at a standstill.

I'm looking forward to seeing more panel kits in the future and could become an interestig niche is someone creates an original design and not a copy of a Ferrari.

Just yesterday a court ruling prevents anyone from using in any shape or form anything related to a ferrari original design, from car to a T-shirt.....

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 26th November 14:38

[seansverige]

fuoriserie said:

Just yesterday a court ruling prevents anyone from using in any shape or form anything related to a ferrari original design, from car to a T-shirt.....

On the one hand I sympathise with Ferrari wanting to protect their legacy, but if the ruling is about 'any shape or form' related to Ferrari design that's open to abuse... and I'm pretty sure they have a big, skilled legal department. There have been some cases where, usually American, companies have been a bit heavy handed in exerting their perceived rights and winning by might rather than legal right: their opposition simply can't afford to defend themselves.

Even if they confine themselves to genuine car related cases, it's a pity that it's nearly impossible to make a law smart enough to distinguish between something like the Noble P4 (which I would argue does no harm to their reputation at all), and some of the lesser lookalikes. As regards the non-car stuff, I wonder how this is going to affect automotive artists and memorabilia? Again there's a difference between someone making knock-off Alonso F1 tees and a painting of 512 on the Targa Florio. Then again, of late Ferrari seem happy whoring their name on everything from trainers to laptops so maybe that's where the concern is.

You also wonder what they might try to register in future; Ferrari seem to use a form of egg crate grille as part of their current visual identity. If you look back they were quite commonly used in sportscars generally, but based on current usage would they be allowed to 'protect' this?


BTW - didn't BMW or Smart lose a recent court case in Italy regarding the Chinese lookilikeys? Hardly seems consistent if so

[Ferg]

fuoriserie said:

seansverige said:

There's also this build site: http://www.minotaur-kitcar.co.uk/

That's Andy's mate's site, Italo.

[fuoriserie]

Ferg said:

fuoriserie said:

seansverige said:

There's also this build site: http://www.minotaur-kitcar.co.uk/

That's Andy's mate's site, Italo.

Ferg thanks for the info,.....he is doing a very good job at fixing the body of the Minotaur.

[fuoriserie]

seansverige said:

fuoriserie said:

Just yesterday a court ruling prevents anyone from using in any shape or form anything related to a ferrari original design, from car to a T-shirt.....

On the one hand I sympathise with Ferrari wanting to protect their legacy, but if the ruling is about 'any shape or form' related to Ferrari design that's open to abuse... and I'm pretty sure they have a big, skilled legal department. There have been some cases where, usually American, companies have been a bit heavy handed in exerting their perceived rights and winning by might rather than legal right: their opposition simply can't afford to defend themselves.

Even if they confine themselves to genuine car related cases, it's a pity that it's nearly impossible to make a law smart enough to distinguish between something like the Noble P4 (which I would argue does no harm to their reputation at all), and some of the lesser lookalikes. As regards the non-car stuff, I wonder how this is going to affect automotive artists and memorabilia? Again there's a difference between someone making knock-off Alonso F1 tees and a painting of 512 on the Targa Florio. Then again, of late Ferrari seem happy whoring their name on everything from trainers to laptops so maybe that's where the concern is.

You also wonder what they might try to register in future; Ferrari seem to use a form of egg crate grille as part of their current visual identity. If you look back they were quite commonly used in sportscars generally, but based on current usage would they be allowed to 'protect' this?


BTW - didn't BMW or Smart lose a recent court case in Italy regarding the Chinese lookilikeys? Hardly seems consistent if so

The court ruling went in my opinion too far, I understand that ferrari needs the money and gadgets now make at least 20% if not more of their revenue, but saying that anything that is red and has a yellow patch or sticker would not be allowed......they're pushing it....

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 26th November 20:22

[andygtt]

My Mate is Stu and the above web site is his build, the chasis is not original as hes done quite a few mods to stiffen it up, it also is different to what Pilgrim had/did.... I personally wouldnt touch the chasis of that was in the Pilgrim demo car.

As for £65k plus vat for a SBC engined car with renault box and only 350-400bhp... shocking IMO

[Throttle Body]

[quote=fuoriserie
Just yesterday a court ruling prevents anyone from using in any shape or form anything related to a ferrari original design, from car to a T-shirt.....

Do you have a link to the decision?

[fuoriserie]

Throttle Body said:

[quote=fuoriserie
Just yesterday a court ruling prevents anyone from using in any shape or form anything related to a ferrari original design, from car to a T-shirt.....

Do you have a link to the decision?

It's in italian though, but here is the link:

http://www.alvolante.it/news/rosso_ferrari-1204910...

[seansverige]

Thanks Italo, Google translated page:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&pre...

BTW first translated it using babelfish, which I've used for years, and Google translation noticeably better, e.g. babelfish: "key holder sale, Ts-shirt, coverallses" {my precioussss}, google: "keychains, T-shirts, tracksuits".

[Throttle Body]

Thanks for the link. It is still somewhat difficult to tell the basis for the decision - whether it relates to Ferrari's registered trade marks or unfair competition laws. I think it most likely relates to their registered trade marks. It doesn't appear to relate to registered or unregistered designs.

I'm amazed to see that they make $1.5bn per year from T-shirts, key fobs and the like.

[EFA]

Just to raise a question, seeing as someone mentioned it, would driving a Noble P4 fitted with a Ferrari engine and transmission and with the bodywork wearing badges purchased from a Ferrari dealer infringe such a ruling? Could the seize the car if you were caught driving it in Italy?

[fuoriserie]

EFA said:

Just to raise a question, seeing as someone mentioned it, would driving a Noble P4 fitted with a Ferrari engine and transmission and with the bodywork wearing badges purchased from a Ferrari dealer infringe such a ruling? Could the seize the car if you were caught driving it in Italy?

Oh Yes!!!!...I'd be very careful if you're going to drive such a car in Italy at the moment.