Community Speed Watch - I believe wrongly accused
Discussion
I've just recieved a letter for being "observed" doing 37 in a 30 in Camberley
Firstly I recognise there are no serious implications to this first document, but I would value a little advice.
I am no saint, but this road in question I do always take extra care as there are those helpful signs that light up if you are going over 30. I have never clocked up 37 along this road. I actally remember seeing them, checking my speed and thinking nothing of it.
I'm not going to start a thread on the perceived benefits of this scheme, but I am feeling a little aggrieved that in the best of my knowledge I did not achieve this speed, but I have two civvies getting the police involved saying I did. I am now apparantly on a register? For how long, I really dont seem to know.
The two older gentlemen stand in a turnoff by a road on a steep down hill section, I have no idea how far they "shot" me from, but do I have any recourse? Part of me wants to get involved in this and use my rights for them to prove my offence.
They key here is that I have been registered - I dont plan to speed generally, but I am now 50% of the way there to being targetted by the police according the letter I just received.
I do understand the probable comments of dont worry about it, don't speed and nothing will happen, but I feel victimised here - I would have accepted this from a police officer a little easier, especially if I had been pulled and given an explanation (part of me almost would have been happier to have been caught by a BiB with good evidence, and been fined and pointed - I could accept that).
Many thanks for your input.
PS - On the way to Thetford the other day there was a radar activiated sign flashing up the speed you were going. If you were on or under the speed limit, it went green, gave you your speed and said "thanks"
Made me feel good about keeping to the speed limits....... a little "carrot" instead of the ubiquitous "big stick" would go a long way in terms of getting the buy in of drivers, instead of civilians accusing and reporting them....
Firstly I recognise there are no serious implications to this first document, but I would value a little advice.
I am no saint, but this road in question I do always take extra care as there are those helpful signs that light up if you are going over 30. I have never clocked up 37 along this road. I actally remember seeing them, checking my speed and thinking nothing of it.
I'm not going to start a thread on the perceived benefits of this scheme, but I am feeling a little aggrieved that in the best of my knowledge I did not achieve this speed, but I have two civvies getting the police involved saying I did. I am now apparantly on a register? For how long, I really dont seem to know.
The two older gentlemen stand in a turnoff by a road on a steep down hill section, I have no idea how far they "shot" me from, but do I have any recourse? Part of me wants to get involved in this and use my rights for them to prove my offence.
They key here is that I have been registered - I dont plan to speed generally, but I am now 50% of the way there to being targetted by the police according the letter I just received.
I do understand the probable comments of dont worry about it, don't speed and nothing will happen, but I feel victimised here - I would have accepted this from a police officer a little easier, especially if I had been pulled and given an explanation (part of me almost would have been happier to have been caught by a BiB with good evidence, and been fined and pointed - I could accept that).
Many thanks for your input.
PS - On the way to Thetford the other day there was a radar activiated sign flashing up the speed you were going. If you were on or under the speed limit, it went green, gave you your speed and said "thanks"
Made me feel good about keeping to the speed limits....... a little "carrot" instead of the ubiquitous "big stick" would go a long way in terms of getting the buy in of drivers, instead of civilians accusing and reporting them....
trying to get rid of the emoticon....
Edited by cris9964 on Sunday 29th November 10:51
cris9964 said:
They key here is that I have been registered - I dont plan to speed generally, but I am now 50% of the way there to being targetted by the police according the letter I just received.
OK, let's assume that the busy bodies were to make another claim that you were speeding. Did the letter advise how the police would then go about 'targetting' you ?Old Soak, I do get what you are saying, and wont be having any sleepless nights. I've got no points on the license, no fault accidents since getting the license, so not really sitting up and taking stock.... as I dont think I was speeding
I think they made a mistake, and feeling a little resentful about the process of speed management in my area.
What do you think about the afterthought on that Suffolk speed sign?.... to me it highlights a real issue with getting the public on board with managing road safety... something so simple as saying "thanks" highlighted in green for keeping to the speed limit, made me proactively support the speed enforcement requirements in that village. Rather than my experience in Camberley where I feel angry toward those individuals and their objectives (and that of the council).
I think they made a mistake, and feeling a little resentful about the process of speed management in my area.
What do you think about the afterthought on that Suffolk speed sign?.... to me it highlights a real issue with getting the public on board with managing road safety... something so simple as saying "thanks" highlighted in green for keeping to the speed limit, made me proactively support the speed enforcement requirements in that village. Rather than my experience in Camberley where I feel angry toward those individuals and their objectives (and that of the council).
SS2. said:
cris9964 said:
They key here is that I have been registered - I dont plan to speed generally, but I am now 50% of the way there to being targetted by the police according the letter I just received.
OK, let's assume that the busy bodies were to make another claim that you were speeding. Did the letter advise how the police would then go about 'targetting' you ?I suppose the Police could target the vehicle, by putting a marker on the ANPR/PNC databases, but they counldn't target the driver as they don't know who was driving at the time; there is no requirement to identify the driver as a result of a warning letter from a Community Speed Watch 'detection.'
Alternatively, if the vehicle was regularly caught speeding at the same time on the same bit of road the Police and/or SCP might set up a "real" speed trap so you'd be liable for a FPN or summons if caught by them.
Has anyone actually had two or more warning letters from a CSW set up and if so, what happened?
Alternatively, if the vehicle was regularly caught speeding at the same time on the same bit of road the Police and/or SCP might set up a "real" speed trap so you'd be liable for a FPN or summons if caught by them.
Has anyone actually had two or more warning letters from a CSW set up and if so, what happened?
The police are not above using a little intimidating language. I saw one of those old road wars programmes the other day in which a bib rang the husband of someone he had stopped and asked him if his wife had a licence. When the guy said yes bib told him he would be guilty of perjury if he was telling lies so the husband cut him off. The woman was lying, the husband was lying and the bib was lying.
Puddenchucker said:
I suppose the Police could target the vehicle, by putting a marker on the ANPR/PNC databases, but they counldn't target the driver as they don't know who was driving at the time; there is no requirement to identify the driver as a result of a warning letter from a Community Speed Watch 'detection.'
Alternatively, if the vehicle was regularly caught speeding at the same time on the same bit of road the Police and/or SCP might set up a "real" speed trap so you'd be liable for a FPN or summons if caught by them.
Has anyone actually had two or more warning letters from a CSW set up and if so, what happened?
Thanks for your comments..... I'm interested in your views of whether a more adult "reward" based signage could improve the publics perception of speed and safety management (myabe this should be a post in itself)Alternatively, if the vehicle was regularly caught speeding at the same time on the same bit of road the Police and/or SCP might set up a "real" speed trap so you'd be liable for a FPN or summons if caught by them.
Has anyone actually had two or more warning letters from a CSW set up and if so, what happened?
cris9964 said:
Old Soak, I do get what you are saying, and wont be having any sleepless nights. I've got no points on the license, no fault accidents since getting the license, so not really sitting up and taking stock.... as I dont think I was speeding
I think they made a mistake, and feeling a little resentful about the process of speed management in my area.
What do you think about the afterthought on that Suffolk speed sign?.... to me it highlights a real issue with getting the public on board with managing road safety... something so simple as saying "thanks" highlighted in green for keeping to the speed limit, made me proactively support the speed enforcement requirements in that village. Rather than my experience in Camberley where I feel angry toward those individuals and their objectives (and that of the council).
I think they are good, the caveat to that being, they are only as good as the driver seeing them. I think they made a mistake, and feeling a little resentful about the process of speed management in my area.
What do you think about the afterthought on that Suffolk speed sign?.... to me it highlights a real issue with getting the public on board with managing road safety... something so simple as saying "thanks" highlighted in green for keeping to the speed limit, made me proactively support the speed enforcement requirements in that village. Rather than my experience in Camberley where I feel angry toward those individuals and their objectives (and that of the council).
Some like yourself will see the smiley face and take pride in complying with the limit...others will still blast through in full knowledge that the sign flashing a warning won't get them a speeding ticket...they can live without 'feeling good' as long as they get where they're going a bit quicker. For these people to comply (unfortunately) the 'big stick' is often the only way.
Without proper defence that sounds like libel to me.
TBH no-one is going to spend thousands on something like this, but it is a valid point.
The allegation made by the person on the speed check has potentialy damaged the way you are viewed by others.
For example. If as a result of this your car is flagged on ANPR the police might be more likely to pull you. You'd not have a marker if you weren't a bit dodgy might be the veiew of the copper who gives you a pull. The marker may help someone form an opinion of you that is untrue.
If you want a bit of fun and want to get a bit arsey, reply asking for the name of the individual who made the allegation as yo beleive it to be libelous and that you may consider bringing a claim against him or her as is your right.
Or just leave it.
TBH no-one is going to spend thousands on something like this, but it is a valid point.
The allegation made by the person on the speed check has potentialy damaged the way you are viewed by others.
For example. If as a result of this your car is flagged on ANPR the police might be more likely to pull you. You'd not have a marker if you weren't a bit dodgy might be the veiew of the copper who gives you a pull. The marker may help someone form an opinion of you that is untrue.
If you want a bit of fun and want to get a bit arsey, reply asking for the name of the individual who made the allegation as yo beleive it to be libelous and that you may consider bringing a claim against him or her as is your right.
Or just leave it.
OnTheOverrun said:
I suggest you get your solicitor to write back and demand they provide you with the details of the person or persons making this libellous alegation against you so you can take the appropriate civil action against them as is your right under English law.
That would be my approach. 
cris9964 said:
PS - On the way to Thetford the other day there was a radar activiated sign flashing up the speed you were going. If you were on or under the speed limit, it went green, gave you your speed and said "thanks"
Made me feel good about keeping to the speed limits....... a little "carrot" instead of the ubiquitous "big stick" would go a long way in terms of getting the buy in of drivers, instead of civilians accusing and reporting them....
I like the one's with smiley faces if you're at or below the limit!Made me feel good about keeping to the speed limits....... a little "carrot" instead of the ubiquitous "big stick" would go a long way in terms of getting the buy in of drivers, instead of civilians accusing and reporting them....
Thanks for the input - When I return I'll look into a letter explaining my concerns with a solicitor's backing and let you know
I'd be interested in hearing what officers think of this speed enforcement initiative. I'd like to think of myself as a responsible member of my community, but do take real offence (assuming I was not speeding) of being reported by fellow citizens, and not what I believe to be the proper authorities.
Thanks all for the input. I feel cleansed!
I'd be interested in hearing what officers think of this speed enforcement initiative. I'd like to think of myself as a responsible member of my community, but do take real offence (assuming I was not speeding) of being reported by fellow citizens, and not what I believe to be the proper authorities.
Thanks all for the input. I feel cleansed!
cris9964 said:
I'd be interested in hearing what officers think of this speed enforcement initiative.
It's not a speed enforecment initiativeThese things are usually done to get the complainers off the back of the Chief. It'll demonstrate two things
a) there isnt much speeding
b) the speed limit is too low
Same for those smiley speed signs. If there are enough people driving faster than the speed limit so as to justify a smiley sign, there's enough to justify the limit going up a notch.
It's nothing to do with safety as it'll already be safe. If it wasn't theyd have the engineering lads out
cris9964 said:
Thanks for the input - When I return I'll look into a letter explaining my concerns with a solicitor's backing and let you know
I'd be interested in hearing what officers think of this speed enforcement initiative. I'd like to think of myself as a responsible member of my community, but do take real offence (assuming I was not speeding) of being reported by fellow citizens, and not what I believe to be the proper authorities.
Thanks all for the input. I feel cleansed!
Don't explain your concerns, demand the names of those libeling you or threaten legal action.I'd be interested in hearing what officers think of this speed enforcement initiative. I'd like to think of myself as a responsible member of my community, but do take real offence (assuming I was not speeding) of being reported by fellow citizens, and not what I believe to be the proper authorities.
Thanks all for the input. I feel cleansed!
If the police want to try bullying with bullsh!t, use the same approach back.
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