Camera snobs - which one are you?
Discussion
More of a philosophical thread this one. I was reading up on the Olympus XA2 (a paternal gift to the young Simpo in 1983) and found this rather neat piece from www.theothermartintaylor.com/moveabletype/archives...
'There are several groups of people in the world of photography that I have trouble getting on with. All are extremists and all are snobs. As a generalist who likes to try his hand at everything from digital to pinhole photography we're already at loggerheads. These groups include those that preach that digital is not 'real photography' and is killing photography as art - film snobs. It includes those that believe that in order to be a real photographer your camera must cost $3K or more - equipment snobs. Finally, it includes those who believe that any snapshot taken with a cult, quirky camera is art, especially if it's blurry and badly composed - toy camera snobs.'
I quite like the phrase 'Lomograph Nazis' too
'There are several groups of people in the world of photography that I have trouble getting on with. All are extremists and all are snobs. As a generalist who likes to try his hand at everything from digital to pinhole photography we're already at loggerheads. These groups include those that preach that digital is not 'real photography' and is killing photography as art - film snobs. It includes those that believe that in order to be a real photographer your camera must cost $3K or more - equipment snobs. Finally, it includes those who believe that any snapshot taken with a cult, quirky camera is art, especially if it's blurry and badly composed - toy camera snobs.'
I quite like the phrase 'Lomograph Nazis' too
There is a photographer up here who absolutely hates my photos, saying they look 'too real' - she takes really out of focus 'arty' shots, poorly exposed, poorly composed. This to me is the worst of the three 'snoberies' mentioned above.
I liken it to Jazz - you HAVE to be able to play in time and in tune before you have any credibility as a Jazz musician playing out of tune and time.
But that's probably me just being a snob.
I liken it to Jazz - you HAVE to be able to play in time and in tune before you have any credibility as a Jazz musician playing out of tune and time.
But that's probably me just being a snob.
Given the gloriously subjective nature of photography, there are always going to be 'extreme' views of what different people think is good, bad, or indifferent.
And it's worth bearing in mind that this is nothing new - the debate about what is 'right' in the field of photography has pretty much raged for as long as there have been cameras !!
I don't think I fall into any of the categories above - I'm certainly interested in what cameras people are using, and it's quite interesting to look around at busy events, like motor racing, and see the variety of different cameras being used. But would I turn my nose up and sneer at someone using, say, a Canon or Pentax or Minolta ? No, of course not. They may be able to take much better pictures than me, regardless of what they use.
Equally I don't buy into the whole 'being different for the sake of it' group, with their Lomos, old Russian cameras, or whatever else it might be. They just end up in a group of other people who are trying to be different, thereby possibly failing to achieve what they set out to do when they decided to be different !
For me, photography is whatever people want it to be. I may not always like the results. And I may be curious about the mind-set of the person who sets out to take a badly exposed, poorly composed picture and claim it is somehow better than something else. But is any of it good or bad ? Right or wrong ? No, not really.
It seems the nature of anything which was born out of a sense of exclusivity, and which is now available to the masses, is that it creates very vocal advocates of *their* little part of that particular sphere. Cars, music, photography, hi fi equipment (vinyl is better than CDs, etc., etc.), etc. Tis the way of the world I guess.
GetCarter said:
There is a photographer up here who absolutely hates my photos, saying they look 'too real' - she takes really out of focus 'arty' shots, poorly exposed, poorly composed. This to me is the worst of the three 'snoberies' mentioned above.
I liken it to Jazz - you HAVE to be able to play in time and in tune before you have any credibility as a Jazz musician playing out of tune and time.
But that's probably me just being a snob.
I liken it to Jazz - you HAVE to be able to play in time and in tune before you have any credibility as a Jazz musician playing out of tune and time.
But that's probably me just being a snob.
My photos were just criticised on a UE forum because someone didn't like my style of photography....and more often than not I end up arguing with the anti-photoshop snob
If you can take a good photo, then excellent...if you're into your own thing and found your own style, then why not enjoy yourself. It's all subjective anyway aswell as being one of the same branch
I will look upon all kinds of photography, if I dont like it, so be it...
Both Carter and Nick make good points, being
A) You need to master the basic rules before you then go off an break them to express yourself, and
B) the debate as to what is right and wrong has been going on since photography started
I hope I'm not a gear snob. I love the advances in kit to enable you to execute what you wanted as an image but I see the work of folks using anything from 4*5 sheet cameras to recent images posted here from an Olympus Trip (also my first ever camera) and there is an awful lot of there that you see and go, yep, that's a super image never mind how it was taken or what it was taken with.
It's very simialr in the bicycle world, some folks look down on you if you don't have the latest Colnago but I don't care my bike does the job. It's the rider that counts and in photography it's the photographer that counts. I suspect there are fringe / splinter groups in pretty much every pastime, Judean People's Front?
Chris
A) You need to master the basic rules before you then go off an break them to express yourself, and
B) the debate as to what is right and wrong has been going on since photography started
I hope I'm not a gear snob. I love the advances in kit to enable you to execute what you wanted as an image but I see the work of folks using anything from 4*5 sheet cameras to recent images posted here from an Olympus Trip (also my first ever camera
) and there is an awful lot of there that you see and go, yep, that's a super image never mind how it was taken or what it was taken with. It's very simialr in the bicycle world, some folks look down on you if you don't have the latest Colnago but I don't care my bike does the job. It's the rider that counts and in photography it's the photographer that counts. I suspect there are fringe / splinter groups in pretty much every pastime, Judean People's Front?
Chris
Equipment and tradition snobs exist in all areas of recreation.."professional" golf gear, very high powered sports cars,and cameras. This does not in any way reduce the capability of all this stuff, but the real differentiator is in the ability and talent of the user. When you see some of the really great photos of the past, and the relatively primitive equipment made to produce them, it is humbling. I was a "real photography" holdout for year, preferring slides to digital,but like most people, could never see myself returning to it. I am always amused when someone likes a photo I took and immediately says " nice picture...I'l bet you have a good camera"
I have a friend who takes superb pictures on a little Nikon D5000 point and shoot, which reflect far more talent than I could ever have, and her shots are much better than mine on a full SLR.
I have a friend who takes superb pictures on a little Nikon D5000 point and shoot, which reflect far more talent than I could ever have, and her shots are much better than mine on a full SLR.
Would that I was good enough at any of those categories to be a snob! 
More seriously - agree with him. Translating (loosely) to cars, there's the same thing on here - we've all seen the BMW-bores and Porsche-pratts, and, dare I say it, Honda...erm...'hidiots'!
It's a form of tribalism combined with ego - people think their choice MUST be right because they made it, and other people who make different choices must necessarily be wrong/misguided/less-talented.
With cameras and cars, any one 'form' isn't better than all the others, only more fit-for-purpose for one narrow area (Can I confess to loving the Defender/90/110 at this point?). And the more expensive kit isn't any use if you can't 'drive' it properly...
More seriously - agree with him. Translating (loosely) to cars, there's the same thing on here - we've all seen the BMW-bores and Porsche-pratts, and, dare I say it, Honda...erm...'hidiots'!
It's a form of tribalism combined with ego - people think their choice MUST be right because they made it, and other people who make different choices must necessarily be wrong/misguided/less-talented.With cameras and cars, any one 'form' isn't better than all the others, only more fit-for-purpose for one narrow area (Can I confess to loving the Defender/90/110 at this point?). And the more expensive kit isn't any use if you can't 'drive' it properly...
GetCarter said:
There is a photographer up here who absolutely hates my photos, saying they look 'too real' - she takes really out of focus 'arty' shots, poorly exposed, poorly composed. This to me is the worst of the three 'snoberies' mentioned above.
I liken it to Jazz - you HAVE to be able to play in time and in tune before you have any credibility as a Jazz musician playing out of tune and time.
But that's probably me just being a snob.
There's somebody who hates your photos?! I liken it to Jazz - you HAVE to be able to play in time and in tune before you have any credibility as a Jazz musician playing out of tune and time.
But that's probably me just being a snob.
Is she blind in one eye and not able to see out the other?
Pints said:
GetCarter said:
There is a photographer up here who absolutely hates my photos, saying they look 'too real' - she takes really out of focus 'arty' shots, poorly exposed, poorly composed. This to me is the worst of the three 'snoberies' mentioned above.
I liken it to Jazz - you HAVE to be able to play in time and in tune before you have any credibility as a Jazz musician playing out of tune and time.
But that's probably me just being a snob.
There's somebody who hates your photos?! I liken it to Jazz - you HAVE to be able to play in time and in tune before you have any credibility as a Jazz musician playing out of tune and time.
But that's probably me just being a snob.
Is she blind in one eye and not able to see out the other?
te photo they spurt out has so much "meaning" and whenever you try and point out the main subject isn't in focus, or it's horribly under exposed they just scream ARTISTIC LICENCE. fk off with your artistic bullst, it's not an excuse for not being arsed to learn how to use a camera. tts.jon- said:
Argh!! Those people who can't work a camera for toffee but went and did an evening course in photography at "art college" and now every ste photo they spurt out has so much "meaning" and whenever you try and point out the main subject isn't in focus, or it's horribly under exposed they just scream ARTISTIC LICENCE.
That remnds me of The X-Factor when some dweeb with no voice sings flat and the audience think he's the best thing since Frank Sinatra. It's either lack of talent, or laziness, or both, from both sides. But people are growing up in a world where you get 3 A's for turning up. One person's elitism is another person's standards - you use whichever word best suits your position.te photo they spurt out has so much "meaning" and whenever you try and point out the main subject isn't in focus, or it's horribly under exposed they just scream ARTISTIC LICENCE.It's sometimes instructive to go to Flickr and browse the photos that people take with really, really low-end cameras, like the "only really a camera by definition" crap-effort that Apple fitted to the iPhone. There's a lot of rubbish, true, but there's a few real gems that show that a good eye and good composition cannot be compensated for by technology.
Well I'm not a brand snob at all.
Thinks I.
But then there are some things that you naturally become a snob over - so that when someone offers you an alternative you always start with a negative view. You'll even put up with all the compromises and find yourself defending that brand. So where does preference and familiarity end and snobbery start? Eh? That's what I want to know.
Thinks I.
But then there are some things that you naturally become a snob over - so that when someone offers you an alternative you always start with a negative view. You'll even put up with all the compromises and find yourself defending that brand. So where does preference and familiarity end and snobbery start? Eh? That's what I want to know.
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