Centre line diagonal hatching, what do they mean?
Discussion
I've been noticing more and more of these recently and a drive down the A303 yesterday frustrated and stopped me from overtaking until i'd looked it up in the highway code, but i'm still none the wiser.
On the centre line of a single carrigeway road, there are two dashed lines, further apart than two solid white lines and filled in with a diagonal hatching. These are not just before a junction or leading up to a dual carrigeway or any sort of hazzard but just mile after mile of the same hatched area.
Can we overtake on these? Highway Code says -:
Rule 109 - Areas of white diagonal stripes, or chevrons painted on the road. These are to sepperate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
1. If the area is bordered by a solid white line, you should not enter it except in an emergency.
2. If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
3. If the area is on a motorway and consists of a triangle bounded by continuous white lines marked by chevrons, you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency.
On the centre line of a single carrigeway road, there are two dashed lines, further apart than two solid white lines and filled in with a diagonal hatching. These are not just before a junction or leading up to a dual carrigeway or any sort of hazzard but just mile after mile of the same hatched area.
Can we overtake on these? Highway Code says -:
Rule 109 - Areas of white diagonal stripes, or chevrons painted on the road. These are to sepperate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
1. If the area is bordered by a solid white line, you should not enter it except in an emergency.
2. If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
3. If the area is on a motorway and consists of a triangle bounded by continuous white lines marked by chevrons, you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency.
They're there to separate the traffic flow and to make numpties think you can't overtake.
The key is the bounding line; if it's broken you can use the area, as per your text above.
These are placed a bit too often now, and the buggers don't sweep the chevroned area. Hence they get a build up of detritus that makes crossing them a little risky.
>> Edited by thub on Monday 26th January 13:00
The key is the bounding line; if it's broken you can use the area, as per your text above.
These are placed a bit too often now, and the buggers don't sweep the chevroned area. Hence they get a build up of detritus that makes crossing them a little risky.
>> Edited by thub on Monday 26th January 13:00
Unless its a solid line, just ignore it - its there to scare the numpties into slowing down and drving in the ditch (not a bad place for em IMHO)
There is so much of this stuff around, a lot of it in completely the wrong places, that I'm more and more starting to ignore road signs and markings ......
Anarchy due to overzealous safery...
There is so much of this stuff around, a lot of it in completely the wrong places, that I'm more and more starting to ignore road signs and markings ......
Anarchy due to overzealous safery...
It's a contrived way of disinclining motorists from overtaking.
If the lines are broken, and there is hatching in the middle - feel free to overtake so long as it's safe to do so.
There's a section like this of about 2 or 3 miles on the A4074 South from Oxford to Reading. The road is as safe as an NSL A-road could be and is on a shallow arc most of the way.
There are warning signs indicating to "stay in lane".
Red rag to a bull
If the lines are broken, and there is hatching in the middle - feel free to overtake so long as it's safe to do so.
There's a section like this of about 2 or 3 miles on the A4074 South from Oxford to Reading. The road is as safe as an NSL A-road could be and is on a shallow arc most of the way.
There are warning signs indicating to "stay in lane".
Red rag to a bull
mondeoman said:
Unless its a solid line, just ignore it - ...
But if you read HC rule 109 it seems you can ignore even the solid line. It is only 'should not'.
Except on motorways.
And rule 107 seems to contradict rule 109.
When are they 'double white lines' and when is it an 'area of diagonal stripes' ??? I often see double white lines that then spread apart with very short stripes between.
I got flashed at by a numpy for overtaking him across these separation zones just a few months ago. Ferkin idiot. A large dose of road rage nearly ensued!!
IMHO I think they are probably a nightmare for cyclists because numpties feel disinclined to give them a wide berth because numpty would have to enter the cross-hatchings to do so.
IMHO I think they are probably a nightmare for cyclists because numpties feel disinclined to give them a wide berth because numpty would have to enter the cross-hatchings to do so.
andrew54 said:
Unless its a solid line, just ignore it - ...
But if you read HC rule 109 it seems you can ignore even the solid line. It is only 'should not'.
Except on motorways.
And rule 107 seems to contradict rule 109.
When are they 'double white lines' and when is it an 'area of diagonal stripes' ??? I often see double white lines that then spread apart with very short stripes between.
A 'should not' is a 'do not'. To cross a solid white line will be endorsable. Motorway or not! The 'except in an emergency' is just that!
Paul
Little Yellow Book "KNOW YOUR ROAD SIGNS" pp 43-44 with pictures says:
As per HC
"Diagonal white lines (hatched markings) may be used to separate traffic lanes, to protect traffic turning right of along the offside or nearside edge of carriageway. When an area is bordered by a continuous line you MUST NOT enter the hatched area. Where the line is BROKEN, you SHOULD NOT enter the area unless it is SAFE to do so!"
Page 44 refers to the triangular bit per HC rule 109.
"On a motorway, part of the verge or hardshoulder between the main carriageway and a slip road where the traffic passes on either side in the same direction and where the traffic must not enter except in an emergency"
Seems pretty clear to me!
Though in the case of the unbroken line, could one enter the "forbiddden zone" if overtaking something travelling at 10mph or less?
As per HC
"Diagonal white lines (hatched markings) may be used to separate traffic lanes, to protect traffic turning right of along the offside or nearside edge of carriageway. When an area is bordered by a continuous line you MUST NOT enter the hatched area. Where the line is BROKEN, you SHOULD NOT enter the area unless it is SAFE to do so!"
Page 44 refers to the triangular bit per HC rule 109.
"On a motorway, part of the verge or hardshoulder between the main carriageway and a slip road where the traffic passes on either side in the same direction and where the traffic must not enter except in an emergency"
Seems pretty clear to me!
Though in the case of the unbroken line, could one enter the "forbiddden zone" if overtaking something travelling at 10mph or less?
WildCat said:
Little Yellow Book "KNOW YOUR ROAD SIGNS" pp 43-44 with pictures says:
As per HC
When an area is bordered by a continuous line you MUST NOT enter the hatched area.
Page 44 refers to the triangular bit per HC rule 109.
Seems pretty clear to me!
In the "know your traffic signs" book (page 43 4th edition 1995) it says 'must not' but in the HC (1999 edition) rule 109 says 'should not'. This is all for diagonal stripes or chevrons bordered by a solid white line.
Not clear at all!!!
Und so mein Freund!
Zat ist vhy ve vere buying the "Know Your traffic Signs" Books!
Plus a few others besides the HC!
(HC is OK but unclear on some rules as you say! Hence the need to buy a supplemental to clarify!)
But it does say on the unbroken solid line "should not cross except in emergency" whereas the unbroken line is "should not cross unless necessary!"
This first would imply "must not unless emergency"
But we are not all linguists and experts in nuances of English to that degree!
Agree it is unclear and would give me a right headache if I were translating this as a professional job! Or even explaining this to another Auslaender!
Half this family are dual Nat Swiss/UK and have foreign driving licences. Englisch is not our L1 so we do look at other sources to clarify things!
>> Edited by WildCat on Sunday 1st February 20:50
Zat ist vhy ve vere buying the "Know Your traffic Signs" Books!
Plus a few others besides the HC!
(HC is OK but unclear on some rules as you say! Hence the need to buy a supplemental to clarify!)
But it does say on the unbroken solid line "should not cross except in emergency" whereas the unbroken line is "should not cross unless necessary!"
This first would imply "must not unless emergency"
But we are not all linguists and experts in nuances of English to that degree!
Agree it is unclear and would give me a right headache if I were translating this as a professional job! Or even explaining this to another Auslaender!
Half this family are dual Nat Swiss/UK and have foreign driving licences. Englisch is not our L1 so we do look at other sources to clarify things!
>> Edited by WildCat on Sunday 1st February 20:50
Once you get beyond the general appreciation of the great unwashed all things that are beyond them mean nothing. Silly lines mean nothing, particularly when enclosed in an infinate field of total silliness mostly found near a somebody elses problem field or such other experimental phenomenon set up by local authorities engaged in the notorious 1990s Bistromathic experiments. It is believed the north Walians have invested heavily in developing mathematical models for road safety based on a unique and contravercial branch of Improbability and Bistromaths called Safetycamerapartnershipstatistics. Common academic sources have discredited this recently as "totalbollocks" Spokespersons for north Wales said recently Oh Dear Nonegreen is pissd again.
Ah Zoe Vildeykat.
Der HC und der ickle booken mit der signs is der Lurr -Nine shaken der bonce.
Der Lurr mit der fingerpocken - Yah:
(2) The requirements conveyed by a road marking Double white lines(1) shall be that -
(a) subject to paragraphs (3) and (5), no vehicle shall stop on any length of road along which the marking has been placed at any point between the ends of the marking; and
(b) subject to paragraph (6), every vehicle proceeding on any length of road along which the marking has been so placed that, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line, shall be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line on the right hand or off side of the vehicle.
(3) Nothing in paragraph (2)(a) shall apply so as to prevent a vehicle stopping on any length of road so long as may be necessary for any of the purposes specified in paragraph (4) if the vehicle cannot be used for such a purpose without stopping on the length of road.
(4) The purposes are -
(a) to enable a person to board or alight from the vehicle,
(b) to enable goods to be loaded on to or to be unloaded from the vehicle,
(c) to enable the vehicle to be used in connection with -
(i) any operation involving building, demolition or excavation;
(ii) the removal of any obstruction to traffic;
(iii) the maintenance, improvement or reconstruction of the length of road; or
(iv) the laying, erection, alteration, repair or cleaning in or near the length of road of any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for the supply of gas, water or electricity, or of any telecommunications apparatus kept installed for the purposes of a telecommunications code system or of any other telecommunications apparatus lawfully kept installed in any position.
(5) Nothing in paragraph (2)(a) shall apply -
(a) so as to prevent a vehicle stopping in a lay-by;
(b) to a vehicle for the time being used for fire brigade, ambulance or police purposes;
(c) to a pedal bicycle not having a sidecar attached thereto, whether additional means of propulsion by mechanical power are attached to the bicycle or not;
(d) to a vehicle stopping in any case where the person in control of the vehicle is required by law to stop, or is obliged to do so in order to avoid an accident, or is prevented from proceeding by circumstances outside his control;
(e) to anything done with the permission or at the direction of a constable in uniform or in accordance with the direction of a traffic warden; or
(f) to a vehicle on a road with more than one traffic lane in each direction.
(6) Nothing in paragraph (2)(b) shall be taken to prohibit a vehicle from being driven across, or so as to straddle, the continuous line referred to in that paragraph, if it is safe to do so and if necessary to do so -
(a) to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road;
(b) in order to pass a stationary vehicle;
(c) owing to circumstances outside the control of the driver;
(d) in order to avoid an accident;
(e) in order to pass a road maintenance vehicle which is in use, is moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph, and is displaying to the rear the sign shown in diagram 610 or 7403;
(f) in order to pass a pedal cycle moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph;
(g) in order to pass a horse that is being ridden or led at a speed not exceeding 10 mph; or
(h) for the purposes of complying with any direction of a constable in uniform or a traffic warden.
(7) The warning conveyed by a road marking mentioned in paragraph (1) shall be that no vehicle while travelling next to a broken line placed on the left of a continuous line, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, should cross or straddle the first-mentioned line unless it is seen by the driver of the vehicle to be safe to do so.
Vunderbar. Heil der bloken mit der black tashen.
DVD
The cross hatching is an extension on the DWL system.
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Monday 2nd February 07:45
Der HC und der ickle booken mit der signs is der Lurr -Nine shaken der bonce.
Der Lurr mit der fingerpocken - Yah:
(2) The requirements conveyed by a road marking Double white lines(1) shall be that -
(a) subject to paragraphs (3) and (5), no vehicle shall stop on any length of road along which the marking has been placed at any point between the ends of the marking; and
(b) subject to paragraph (6), every vehicle proceeding on any length of road along which the marking has been so placed that, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line, shall be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line on the right hand or off side of the vehicle.
(3) Nothing in paragraph (2)(a) shall apply so as to prevent a vehicle stopping on any length of road so long as may be necessary for any of the purposes specified in paragraph (4) if the vehicle cannot be used for such a purpose without stopping on the length of road.
(4) The purposes are -
(a) to enable a person to board or alight from the vehicle,
(b) to enable goods to be loaded on to or to be unloaded from the vehicle,
(c) to enable the vehicle to be used in connection with -
(i) any operation involving building, demolition or excavation;
(ii) the removal of any obstruction to traffic;
(iii) the maintenance, improvement or reconstruction of the length of road; or
(iv) the laying, erection, alteration, repair or cleaning in or near the length of road of any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for the supply of gas, water or electricity, or of any telecommunications apparatus kept installed for the purposes of a telecommunications code system or of any other telecommunications apparatus lawfully kept installed in any position.
(5) Nothing in paragraph (2)(a) shall apply -
(a) so as to prevent a vehicle stopping in a lay-by;
(b) to a vehicle for the time being used for fire brigade, ambulance or police purposes;
(c) to a pedal bicycle not having a sidecar attached thereto, whether additional means of propulsion by mechanical power are attached to the bicycle or not;
(d) to a vehicle stopping in any case where the person in control of the vehicle is required by law to stop, or is obliged to do so in order to avoid an accident, or is prevented from proceeding by circumstances outside his control;
(e) to anything done with the permission or at the direction of a constable in uniform or in accordance with the direction of a traffic warden; or
(f) to a vehicle on a road with more than one traffic lane in each direction.
(6) Nothing in paragraph (2)(b) shall be taken to prohibit a vehicle from being driven across, or so as to straddle, the continuous line referred to in that paragraph, if it is safe to do so and if necessary to do so -
(a) to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road;
(b) in order to pass a stationary vehicle;
(c) owing to circumstances outside the control of the driver;
(d) in order to avoid an accident;
(e) in order to pass a road maintenance vehicle which is in use, is moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph, and is displaying to the rear the sign shown in diagram 610 or 7403;
(f) in order to pass a pedal cycle moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph;
(g) in order to pass a horse that is being ridden or led at a speed not exceeding 10 mph; or
(h) for the purposes of complying with any direction of a constable in uniform or a traffic warden.
(7) The warning conveyed by a road marking mentioned in paragraph (1) shall be that no vehicle while travelling next to a broken line placed on the left of a continuous line, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, should cross or straddle the first-mentioned line unless it is seen by the driver of the vehicle to be safe to do so.
Vunderbar. Heil der bloken mit der black tashen.
DVD
The cross hatching is an extension on the DWL system.
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Monday 2nd February 07:45
To me the only thing that is doubtful is why whoever was responsible for writing the highway code, chose in one instance to use the word "should" when clearly the word "must" would have been more appropriate.
Yet in connection with what are essentially the same markings but related to a motorway not only did they choose to use "must", but put it in capitals, bold and red. ??
Yet in connection with what are essentially the same markings but related to a motorway not only did they choose to use "must", but put it in capitals, bold and red. ??
Vielen Dank, mein lieber DWD!
Vee shall be 'avin' lots of fun translating zis for our numpties abroad!
After all - if vee are breaking your laws, ze Plod will lock us all up because zey vill zink vee vill not be telling zem vot our Namen und Addressen are und zey vill think zat ve vill be schtorrrmmm-fuehrering a runner!
Cheers Mate
The Wildcat
>> Edited by WildCat on Monday 2nd February 10:08
Vee shall be 'avin' lots of fun translating zis for our numpties abroad!
After all - if vee are breaking your laws, ze Plod will lock us all up because zey vill zink vee vill not be telling zem vot our Namen und Addressen are und zey vill think zat ve vill be schtorrrmmm-fuehrering a runner!
Cheers Mate
The Wildcat
>> Edited by WildCat on Monday 2nd February 10:08
Flat in Fifth said:The "rule" in the HC appears to be that "MUST" is used where there is law and "SHOULD" where there is no law.
To me the only thing that is doubtful is why whoever was responsible for writing the highway code, chose in one instance to use the word "should" when clearly the word "must" would have been more appropriate.
Yet in connection with what are essentially the same markings but related to a motorway not only did they choose to use "must", but put it in capitals, bold and red. ??
In modern English, "must" means to be obliged to, whilst "should" (in the 2nd or 3rd persons) expresses the future intention or will of the speaker (the HC in this case); so, "you must" is mandated, "you should" is advisory. Of course, in the Bible (eg. the Ten Commandments) and Ye Olde English, "thou shalt" is mandatory - with all sorts of dire punishments for failure to comply; in contracts, the word "shall" is generally taken to imply an obligation or restriction upon the party (but, of course, the validity of that is for the courts to decide
). Streaky
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff