Porsche Inspections in London
Discussion
Hi all
I'm thinking of upgrading to join the Porsche community, and have been looking at a 1969 911E over the weekend.
It seems in really honest condition - has some leaks and some welding required, but not really much more than you'd expect at its age, + it has had a lot of work done at Paragon back in 2000 which involved putting in a new engine and gearbox + clutch.
So it seems like it might be an OK buy if I can factor in enough on the price to get the stuff doing that looks urgent.
Only thing is that I am a little nervous about buying without an inspection. I tried the AA today, but they said they'd only inspect on cars up to 25 years old, which is not much help. Anyone know of someone in South London who'd be able to inspect the car one evening?
Appreciate any advice too!
Tim
I'm thinking of upgrading to join the Porsche community, and have been looking at a 1969 911E over the weekend.
It seems in really honest condition - has some leaks and some welding required, but not really much more than you'd expect at its age, + it has had a lot of work done at Paragon back in 2000 which involved putting in a new engine and gearbox + clutch.
So it seems like it might be an OK buy if I can factor in enough on the price to get the stuff doing that looks urgent.
Only thing is that I am a little nervous about buying without an inspection. I tried the AA today, but they said they'd only inspect on cars up to 25 years old, which is not much help. Anyone know of someone in South London who'd be able to inspect the car one evening?
Appreciate any advice too!
Tim
Unless you are a design fetishist with a boner for old 911s, I don't really know what you are doing looking at such an old one. It will be a bitch to run compared to a 1984> 3.2 Carrera, for example, and won't go, stop or corner as well.
I can only hope you are picking it up for about 6 grand and have a collection of black rollnecks and a corbusier recliner back at the docklands flat
As for inspections, any independent specialist is likely to take a look for circa 100 GBP. There are a few in London and surrounding areas. If the car can get to JZ Machtech that would be good, alternatively Patrick Schembri from Porschembri (googlable I'm sure) is in west london IIRC and may be coerced to travelling to it.
HTH
Domster
I can only hope you are picking it up for about 6 grand and have a collection of black rollnecks and a corbusier recliner back at the docklands flat
As for inspections, any independent specialist is likely to take a look for circa 100 GBP. There are a few in London and surrounding areas. If the car can get to JZ Machtech that would be good, alternatively Patrick Schembri from Porschembri (googlable I'm sure) is in west london IIRC and may be coerced to travelling to it.
HTH
Domster
Hmmm, you nearly got it right... I do have the odd black rollneck, but no docklands flat - a trusty old terrace in Brixton instead.
Must admit I had been looking for a 964 Carrera 2, and then got sidetracked by how pretty this old one looked... Figured I could keep my Corrado as a more practical way of travelling long distances and doing trackdays, whilst having something beautiful to pose in too...
Thanks for the recommendations on the guys to inspect, I'll see whether they are free at all this week.
Must admit I had been looking for a 964 Carrera 2, and then got sidetracked by how pretty this old one looked... Figured I could keep my Corrado as a more practical way of travelling long distances and doing trackdays, whilst having something beautiful to pose in too...
Thanks for the recommendations on the guys to inspect, I'll see whether they are free at all this week.
The 964C2 is a good car, but a post 1987 LHD 3.2 Carrera may be a better bet in terms of maintenance and purchase costs etc.
The older ones can really bite you - a friend spent 6k on his 8k 3.0SC (1979) getting the bodywork sorted, interior retrimmed etc. It's probably worth, oh I dunno, maybe as much as 8k now...
See what the inspection throws up anyway.
Keeping the Corrado is a good idea if you can afford to run them both in London. If not, a 968CS is like the bastard lovechild of a 911 and a Corrado, so maybe think along those lines.
As for Brixton, well, that's quite simply the new Clapham luvvie, as well you know
If an architect doesn't live next door to you then Melv isn't a merkin merchant etc.
The older ones can really bite you - a friend spent 6k on his 8k 3.0SC (1979) getting the bodywork sorted, interior retrimmed etc. It's probably worth, oh I dunno, maybe as much as 8k now...
See what the inspection throws up anyway.
Keeping the Corrado is a good idea if you can afford to run them both in London. If not, a 968CS is like the bastard lovechild of a 911 and a Corrado, so maybe think along those lines.
As for Brixton, well, that's quite simply the new Clapham luvvie, as well you know
If an architect doesn't live next door to you then Melv isn't a merkin merchant etc. Speak to Steve at Jaz in Wembley. He and his team are specialists with Porsches of this era www.jazmotorsport.co.uk.
Rocket
Rocket
www.petermorgan.org.uk
Telephone: 01672 514038
Peter Morgan at: peter@petermorgan.org.uk
This guy is well respected and is editor at large of 911&PW. Never used him but I've heard good things about him - not cheap!
Telephone: 01672 514038
Peter Morgan at: peter@petermorgan.org.uk
This guy is well respected and is editor at large of 911&PW. Never used him but I've heard good things about him - not cheap!
Ouch - you do need an inspection on the car - it's at that cusp where they changed from 2 litre to 2.2 isn't it? If it's a 2.2 with the optional dogleg 5 speeder, in that condition I guess you'll only want to be paying £5k or so for it - the 2.0 on carbs is a major woofer IMHO.
Please make sure you have a good inspection done by someone who knows what they're looking at. I didn't know Peter Morgan was into the inspection game, but since he's owned a 2.4S for the past 20 years or so, he should know what's what - and will be able to tell you whether you're paying over the odds for the car.
Also go and see Peter Nardeli at Tower Porsche in Druid Street a stone's throw from Tower Bridge. He brings over boatloads of pre-impact cars and knows a dog when he sees one (and he's seen a few!). I don't know whether he inspects cars or not, but a phone call to him ought to ascertain the value of this car you're thinkig of buying...
Early 911s are a sublime mix of design purity and driving delicacy - so different from driving any 911 that came later (with the expection of the 964RS which to my mind is the closest you can come to the pre- impact driving experience in a later car). But if you buy a wrong 'un, it'll hoover up £9k of your money on repairs to the tub, scuttle, boot floor, front cross member and rear torsion tube plus new front and rear wings, doors and original steel fenders....and then you've got to get in painted, replace a few broken head studs and the synchro in the gearbox...and it'll still only be worth £12k to the next person who comes along to buy it...
Please make sure you have a good inspection done by someone who knows what they're looking at. I didn't know Peter Morgan was into the inspection game, but since he's owned a 2.4S for the past 20 years or so, he should know what's what - and will be able to tell you whether you're paying over the odds for the car.
Also go and see Peter Nardeli at Tower Porsche in Druid Street a stone's throw from Tower Bridge. He brings over boatloads of pre-impact cars and knows a dog when he sees one (and he's seen a few!). I don't know whether he inspects cars or not, but a phone call to him ought to ascertain the value of this car you're thinkig of buying...
Early 911s are a sublime mix of design purity and driving delicacy - so different from driving any 911 that came later (with the expection of the 964RS which to my mind is the closest you can come to the pre- impact driving experience in a later car). But if you buy a wrong 'un, it'll hoover up £9k of your money on repairs to the tub, scuttle, boot floor, front cross member and rear torsion tube plus new front and rear wings, doors and original steel fenders....and then you've got to get in painted, replace a few broken head studs and the synchro in the gearbox...and it'll still only be worth £12k to the next person who comes along to buy it...
Thanks for the advice all...
Its a 2.0 litre with injection - made the year before they went across to 2.2 it seems. Its had a recent conversion (4 years ago) from Sportmatic to 5 speed manual, so has the dog-leg box of the older cars.
I'm going to get it checked out by a guy over at Classic Car Inspections in Chiswick (found him through the Porsche club), as it seems that most of the Porsche specialists won't touch something this old (cutoff seems to be around 1977).
Its a 2.0 litre with injection - made the year before they went across to 2.2 it seems. Its had a recent conversion (4 years ago) from Sportmatic to 5 speed manual, so has the dog-leg box of the older cars.
I'm going to get it checked out by a guy over at Classic Car Inspections in Chiswick (found him through the Porsche club), as it seems that most of the Porsche specialists won't touch something this old (cutoff seems to be around 1977).
Hi Tim
Don't know if its too late but if not, try John or Peter at Tower Porsche in Druid St SE1 or Josh Sadler at Autofarm.
Basic things to watch out for on the old 911s before you pay for an expert is that they do rot like pears - look for corrosion bubbles under the paint just below the rear windows about 4 inches back from the trailing edge of the doors, around the sun-roof, at the top of the front wings just where they join the scuttle and around the headlamp bowls - take a magnet & check for filler. Also, check with PCGB that it is a UK car (a lot came in from South Africa/Singapore/Hong Kong) and if its not, get the price down accordingly.
I have to say IMHO, if you are running a Porsche as an everyday car in Brixton, I wouldn't go for anything earlier than an SC & if you can go for a G50 gearbox Carrera, even better. If you are going for a later car, try Paul Stephens Specialist Cars near Cambridge - he always has a good range of all 911s, used to be a Porsche mechanic so he knows the cars and, because he underwrites his own warranties, he only sells ones that he knows are good.
Good luck!
Peter
Don't know if its too late but if not, try John or Peter at Tower Porsche in Druid St SE1 or Josh Sadler at Autofarm.
Basic things to watch out for on the old 911s before you pay for an expert is that they do rot like pears - look for corrosion bubbles under the paint just below the rear windows about 4 inches back from the trailing edge of the doors, around the sun-roof, at the top of the front wings just where they join the scuttle and around the headlamp bowls - take a magnet & check for filler. Also, check with PCGB that it is a UK car (a lot came in from South Africa/Singapore/Hong Kong) and if its not, get the price down accordingly.
I have to say IMHO, if you are running a Porsche as an everyday car in Brixton, I wouldn't go for anything earlier than an SC & if you can go for a G50 gearbox Carrera, even better. If you are going for a later car, try Paul Stephens Specialist Cars near Cambridge - he always has a good range of all 911s, used to be a Porsche mechanic so he knows the cars and, because he underwrites his own warranties, he only sells ones that he knows are good.
Good luck!
Peter
A 944 Turbo can still wrap you around a tree. I know because I well and truly badgered one in my youth on a wet road on wet leaves 
An S2 is much less crashable, they tend to understeer much more than the turbos, mainly because the turbo torque doesn't come in suddenly mid-corner if you are a little careless with the power.
An S2 is much less crashable, they tend to understeer much more than the turbos, mainly because the turbo torque doesn't come in suddenly mid-corner if you are a little careless with the power.
I've used Jaz, and they are generally recommendable, though a little inconsistant (buggered up my seals and one of the electric window switches when putting a door back together - prob one of the apprentices). I've also used 'City Porsche' or whatever they call themselves these days in Stratford, can't recommend them, they seemed to be a bunch of cowboys and didn't even advise me to replace the waterpump at the same time as I did my cam belts on the 968CS, neither did they sort out the tensioner or cam chain...
Peter Tognola I can highly recommend, very professional and friendly chap, but at the junction of the M4 and M25 is the wrong end of town for you. Charles Ivey are also good, but rather expensive too. I don't know whether they'd touch anything that old either.
I also have heard good things about Tower, and will be paying them a visit in the near future...
Don't let anyone put you off the early pre-impact bumper 911, I personally love them, but have never been brave enough to own one!
Fox
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964C2
Peter Tognola I can highly recommend, very professional and friendly chap, but at the junction of the M4 and M25 is the wrong end of town for you. Charles Ivey are also good, but rather expensive too. I don't know whether they'd touch anything that old either.
I also have heard good things about Tower, and will be paying them a visit in the near future...
Don't let anyone put you off the early pre-impact bumper 911, I personally love them, but have never been brave enough to own one!
Fox
---
964C2
Thanks for all the advice - I took the car down to Tower for a once over and for them to put it up on the ramps prior to purchasing...
Car seemed to be sound, and they have serviced it in the past, so know a bit of the history. Their view - as honest as you'll get at the money and with a little TLC could be improved over time, so I ended up buying it...
Having great fun so far - can't believe how much fuel she is using (15mpg), and I have some things to sort out - battery drains away if I leave it connected and switched off (red light glows away on the dash on the oil pressure gauge when switched off until the battery runs out), and I have a leak from the sunroof which is stuck very slightly open + it needs a new exhaust soon and the rocker covers upgrading to the turbo versions to cure oil leaks, but all factored into the price when bought, so an eyes open purchase.
My first rear wheel drive car since my Lada many moons ago (strangely that was white and smelt damp too). Great fun, and looking forward to many a year of enjoyment, the engine note just brings out a big smile every time (and that's from a Corrado VR6 owner...)
Car seemed to be sound, and they have serviced it in the past, so know a bit of the history. Their view - as honest as you'll get at the money and with a little TLC could be improved over time, so I ended up buying it...
Having great fun so far - can't believe how much fuel she is using (15mpg), and I have some things to sort out - battery drains away if I leave it connected and switched off (red light glows away on the dash on the oil pressure gauge when switched off until the battery runs out), and I have a leak from the sunroof which is stuck very slightly open + it needs a new exhaust soon and the rocker covers upgrading to the turbo versions to cure oil leaks, but all factored into the price when bought, so an eyes open purchase.
My first rear wheel drive car since my Lada many moons ago (strangely that was white and smelt damp too). Great fun, and looking forward to many a year of enjoyment, the engine note just brings out a big smile every time (and that's from a Corrado VR6 owner...)
Can you tell us what you ended up paying for it Tim?...Can you really use the webbed rocker covers on such an early car (ISTR it's a 1969 Sporto)?
Try winding the sunroof manually shut with the winder you should find in the panel behind the screen in the headlining.
It'll never be an economical car though - mechanical injection y'see...
Try winding the sunroof manually shut with the winder you should find in the panel behind the screen in the headlining.
It'll never be an economical car though - mechanical injection y'see...
Paid about £5,500 in the end - priced in the things that needed doing, and unfortunately for Ben he had to sell that weekend as he was mvoing house so there weren't many other options.
Trying to get the cash together to sort everything out now. Unfortunately tried to close the sunroof using the manual screw, but it seems fairly solid. I'll give it another go with some WD 40 at some stage...
Trying to get the cash together to sort everything out now. Unfortunately tried to close the sunroof using the manual screw, but it seems fairly solid. I'll give it another go with some WD 40 at some stage...
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