real world running costs of mk2 gti - both 8v and 16v / g60'
Discussion
8V and 16v are about the same, G60 you need to add in the cost of Supercharger maintenance (check a VW forum for a detailed break-down of this)
They're not really economical cars, 30mpg is about the best you'll ever see (I have owned 2 of each) even though the on board computer may be claiming 40mpg the fuel receipts tell a different story.
When you thrash a 16v the economy dips considerably lower as it has mechanical fuel injection.
They are strong and reliable cars but they are all getting very long in the tooth now, even though parts are cheap either car will probably need a constant stream of parts (mine did) to keep them good (although you could be a numpty and just run it into the ground).
I'd buy a 16v, much better engine and brakes and usually better equipped. The G60 is really just a gimmick in my opinion and as standard is hardly any quicker than a 16v.
They're not really economical cars, 30mpg is about the best you'll ever see (I have owned 2 of each) even though the on board computer may be claiming 40mpg the fuel receipts tell a different story.
When you thrash a 16v the economy dips considerably lower as it has mechanical fuel injection.
They are strong and reliable cars but they are all getting very long in the tooth now, even though parts are cheap either car will probably need a constant stream of parts (mine did) to keep them good (although you could be a numpty and just run it into the ground).
I'd buy a 16v, much better engine and brakes and usually better equipped. The G60 is really just a gimmick in my opinion and as standard is hardly any quicker than a 16v.
iv had, a 8 and 16v. and now a 16v. my friend had a g60 (rallye)
so the g60. a s/c rebuild is £385 from g werks. id get it done to make sure your getting maximum boost. and to get over the circa 16v power id budget £200 for a chip and pulley. very good power to be had! and value.
k-jet kr 16v's use mechanical injection. basic but tunable. take it somewhere with a rr and fuel pressure guage and you can get a healthy 150hp from altering the wur. these are good fun cars. but as all the powers above 4k, you use more fuel as thats where all the power is. drive fast and youll see alot of the v-power pump.
the late 8v pb digi injection is a cracking car. and on a long run you can easily see 45mpg. need to be well serviced and timing/co set perfectly. Then my engine was a little fettled with a 2.0 block, 268 cam, big valve head, ported in/ex manis, and a big valve head. and on the long runs i still saw dead 40's.
i know run a mk3 abf 16v 2.0 lump in my mk2 with digi 3.2 injection. power and economy. perfect!
so the g60. a s/c rebuild is £385 from g werks. id get it done to make sure your getting maximum boost. and to get over the circa 16v power id budget £200 for a chip and pulley. very good power to be had! and value.
k-jet kr 16v's use mechanical injection. basic but tunable. take it somewhere with a rr and fuel pressure guage and you can get a healthy 150hp from altering the wur. these are good fun cars. but as all the powers above 4k, you use more fuel as thats where all the power is. drive fast and youll see alot of the v-power pump.
the late 8v pb digi injection is a cracking car. and on a long run you can easily see 45mpg. need to be well serviced and timing/co set perfectly. Then my engine was a little fettled with a 2.0 block, 268 cam, big valve head, ported in/ex manis, and a big valve head. and on the long runs i still saw dead 40's.
i know run a mk3 abf 16v 2.0 lump in my mk2 with digi 3.2 injection. power and economy. perfect!
Edited by paultownsend on Sunday 13th December 12:17
low millage 16v with Air con......depending on your definition of low millage id say there arent likely to be more than 5 in the country so you could end up waiting a long time to find one!
AC is very unusual in the UK and i have only seen 1 3door with AC all the others tend to be late H/J plate 5door models that have been sped'd beyond run out spec (when VW got a tiny bit more generous with the options.)
Real world MPG for a 16v is high 20s mid 30s and 8v can get up to 40odd (mostly due to digi management) Early 8v that run on K-Jet have similar MPG to a 16v. general servicing parts are cheap apart from odd items like HT leads at circa £75-100 for 16v ones compared to £20-45 for 8v ones. 16v are higher spec than 8v with larger brakes, anti roll bars, more power, electric windows, central locking most have PAS.
G60s in right hand drive are quite a rarity, they have a few differences to 8 + 16v gti, larger brakes an anti roll bars, fair few have recaro interiors and some are Edition 1 G60s which have even higher spec but are LHD. The g60 is deceiveing slow if you look at 0-60 book times due to not being able to hit 60 in second, but look at 30-70, 50-70 and you will find a G60 is very capable. They are not the ticking time bomb that some people make them out to be, 80k on a standard charger is quite possible but as soon as you start adding smaller pulleys and remaps then the servicing becomes a lot more crucial an 20-40k can be all you will get from the Apex seals before its rebuild time. MPG is comparable to a 16v but can be better around town where the G can cruise in lower gearing better.
dave
AC is very unusual in the UK and i have only seen 1 3door with AC all the others tend to be late H/J plate 5door models that have been sped'd beyond run out spec (when VW got a tiny bit more generous with the options.)
Real world MPG for a 16v is high 20s mid 30s and 8v can get up to 40odd (mostly due to digi management) Early 8v that run on K-Jet have similar MPG to a 16v. general servicing parts are cheap apart from odd items like HT leads at circa £75-100 for 16v ones compared to £20-45 for 8v ones. 16v are higher spec than 8v with larger brakes, anti roll bars, more power, electric windows, central locking most have PAS.
G60s in right hand drive are quite a rarity, they have a few differences to 8 + 16v gti, larger brakes an anti roll bars, fair few have recaro interiors and some are Edition 1 G60s which have even higher spec but are LHD. The g60 is deceiveing slow if you look at 0-60 book times due to not being able to hit 60 in second, but look at 30-70, 50-70 and you will find a G60 is very capable. They are not the ticking time bomb that some people make them out to be, 80k on a standard charger is quite possible but as soon as you start adding smaller pulleys and remaps then the servicing becomes a lot more crucial an 20-40k can be all you will get from the Apex seals before its rebuild time. MPG is comparable to a 16v but can be better around town where the G can cruise in lower gearing better.
dave
a GOOD g60 is going to cost you circa 3k. id only consider one if it was pushing 200hp. and then it'll be pushing 18mpg 
how mechanically minded are you? if you have space, and the ability/tools to do all your own work, id get a mk2 gti. if not, dont bother. it will cost you too much at garages repairing it. mine has new everything, and it still always has niggles. mine is a late 90'spec 1991. so its an old 18yr old car.
and if you want to keep up with modern hatches, it'll need an engine swop. dont bother fiddling with an 8v base. learn from my expensive mistakes.
how mechanically minded are you? if you have space, and the ability/tools to do all your own work, id get a mk2 gti. if not, dont bother. it will cost you too much at garages repairing it. mine has new everything, and it still always has niggles. mine is a late 90'spec 1991. so its an old 18yr old car.
and if you want to keep up with modern hatches, it'll need an engine swop. dont bother fiddling with an 8v base. learn from my expensive mistakes.
i havent personally owned a g60. but my friend had a mk1 golf g60 conversion and a highly tuned rallye. cruising around he got about 180 miles out out £40. and could easily dispose of £40's worth in a mid morning blast. that was at 2 years ago prices. v-power sub £1 a litre?
my abf manages around 320 miles out a full tank. costs £50 to fill!
my abf manages around 320 miles out a full tank. costs £50 to fill!
ge0rge said:
Just going on what the pp said ! A valver it is then, if I can find one with low enough files, going to be used as a daily driver so wanted wanted something reliable ish !
Do it, my 2nd MK2 16v (Jetta) had 189k on the clock and was sweet as a nut. Theres footage somewhere of it doing 0-60mph in 7.4 seconds.Dr G said:
Friend of mine just sold his owned from new big bumper, 3 door 16v in very, very clean condition with 65k. Went for £5,500 O_o
Re. aircon the above is correct, very rare and all long since broken.
Asked tsr if they could retro fit it and they claimed they couldnt get the parts, surely bits from a mk3/4 could be used?!Re. aircon the above is correct, very rare and all long since broken.
All long since discontinued - I broke a 3 door 90 spec 16v with air (shell was dangerously damaged) that didn't work, looked at transplanting it into mine, it's a messy system that doubles up the already troublesome ISV, saps power and goes wrong.
Have seen a couple of 20v MK2s running aftermarket AC but never a *working*, original one.
EDIT: completely forgot to add that if I was using MK3 stuff I'd buy myself a complete, running 16v and transplant the engine and management while I was at it.
Have seen a couple of 20v MK2s running aftermarket AC but never a *working*, original one.
EDIT: completely forgot to add that if I was using MK3 stuff I'd buy myself a complete, running 16v and transplant the engine and management while I was at it.
Edited by Dr G on Monday 14th December 22:33
For what it's worth I've owned 2 8V MK2 GTi's and they were nippy economical and very reliable, in some way's the perfect day to day car. I moved to a Corrado G60 running 201 BHP (dyno'd) and it was incredibly thirsty, the MFA would regularly say single figures and the best I got was 25MPG that was really trying! I don't know if the Golf uses the same gearbox as the Corrado but if it does then a MK2 8V is quicker to about 60 than a 200 brake G60, the ratio's are terrible in the Corrado. Maybe the Golf's are different. Please don't even get me started on reliability!!!!!!!!!
i am a massive mk2 fan and am currently using one of mine as a daily driver and apart from a slightly dodgy ignition switch i am not having any troubles right now. Having said that i have rebuilt the engine, stripped all the interior out, replaced all the sound deadeding, insulation, door membranes etc, replaced every bush, suspension and braking component and to be fair its *nearly* like new.
A mk3 golf 16v isnt as lardy as people make out. according to spec they are 1070Kgs compared to 925kg for a mk2 now im not arguing that with 3 passengers on board the car isnt slower but its not a huge amount of weight especially if you are getting AC, much better safety equipment eg proper side impact bars, Air bags, bigger brakes etc on essentially the same chassis.
What i will say is a 2.0 16v (be in ABF or 9A) in a mk2 is great becuase it combines the low down torque for driving around town with the same revy peaky nature at 5000rpm+ plus and on the motorway the slight decrease in revs needed to hit 70-80 means that fuel economy is much better.
Depending on your budget a £1500-2000 mk2 with circa 100-130k will provide plenty of fun and have lots of life left in it. Id buy the best shell i can find as engines, gearboxes, interiors etc can all be changed at a later date and dont cost anyhwere near as much as bodywork does.
DAVE
A mk3 golf 16v isnt as lardy as people make out. according to spec they are 1070Kgs compared to 925kg for a mk2 now im not arguing that with 3 passengers on board the car isnt slower but its not a huge amount of weight especially if you are getting AC, much better safety equipment eg proper side impact bars, Air bags, bigger brakes etc on essentially the same chassis.
What i will say is a 2.0 16v (be in ABF or 9A) in a mk2 is great becuase it combines the low down torque for driving around town with the same revy peaky nature at 5000rpm+ plus and on the motorway the slight decrease in revs needed to hit 70-80 means that fuel economy is much better.
Depending on your budget a £1500-2000 mk2 with circa 100-130k will provide plenty of fun and have lots of life left in it. Id buy the best shell i can find as engines, gearboxes, interiors etc can all be changed at a later date and dont cost anyhwere near as much as bodywork does.
DAVE
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