The E39 M5 - 'sensible'?
Discussion
Hi guys,
I'm a long time E39 Enthusiast and the E39 M5 is and has always been my realistic dream car. It's why I bought my 530i Sport many years ago - put simply, I wanted an M5, but I couldnt afford one (I was at Uni at the time) so bought the next best thing.
I have now noticed what 'appear' to be nice E39 M5's for around the £10k mark. There are also plenty for less than £10k but I suspect these are not the sort you'd actually want to buy. I'm tentitively considering that in the next few months the time might be right to move to an M5.
The problem is, I am hugely fussy. I've managed to keep my 530i Sport utterly immaculate - there are literally 3 marks on the entire car, including stonechips. If I told you it had 10k miles on it, you'd have no reason to doubt that. The interior is unmarked and the rear seats look like nobody has sat on them. I bought the car when it was much younger - less than 5 - so it was at the time much easier to find cars like this.
The newest E39 M5's are now almost 7 years old. Do cars in exceptional condition still exist? If I am to move to one I don't want a shabby one. I don't care *at all* about mileage, only condition. This philosphy landed me a fantastic 530, but will it land me a troublesome M5?
I work 4 miles from the office so my commute will be about 8 miles a day. Once a month I do a 360 mile Motorway trip. Thats about it really, the rest of my driving is purely for the joy of driving. Does this sort of usage pattern suit an M5? I appreciate that if you are doing 20k a year in it they can be walletbustingly expensive but my mileage is much lower. How much per month would it be sensible to budget to run an M5 on this sort of mileage? Insurance doesn't seem to be an issue, I've been quoted about £800 which at 25 seems fine.
I'm fully versed in the conventional E39 foibles. What specific potential tales of woe does an M5 bring to the table? What sort of step up from my 530i am I going to be looking at regarding keeping the thing on the road?
And how much would you want to spend to get a good car?
Sensible hat on for a second - is this a good idea? I'd be changing my car for one which to everyone who knows me would look like... the same car I've had for the last 3-4 years but in a different colour. The interior is the same. It looks the same... but its worth the extra, right? Or is it going to bite me, hard?
My 530i is absolutely fantastic, should I keep it and leave the M5 the dream that never was, or is it something everyone needs to do at least once? The alternative is to hang onto the 530i for a few more years and pick up a used 535 M Sport or something in a few years time.
Thanks guys
I'm a long time E39 Enthusiast and the E39 M5 is and has always been my realistic dream car. It's why I bought my 530i Sport many years ago - put simply, I wanted an M5, but I couldnt afford one (I was at Uni at the time) so bought the next best thing.
I have now noticed what 'appear' to be nice E39 M5's for around the £10k mark. There are also plenty for less than £10k but I suspect these are not the sort you'd actually want to buy. I'm tentitively considering that in the next few months the time might be right to move to an M5.
The problem is, I am hugely fussy. I've managed to keep my 530i Sport utterly immaculate - there are literally 3 marks on the entire car, including stonechips. If I told you it had 10k miles on it, you'd have no reason to doubt that. The interior is unmarked and the rear seats look like nobody has sat on them. I bought the car when it was much younger - less than 5 - so it was at the time much easier to find cars like this.
The newest E39 M5's are now almost 7 years old. Do cars in exceptional condition still exist? If I am to move to one I don't want a shabby one. I don't care *at all* about mileage, only condition. This philosphy landed me a fantastic 530, but will it land me a troublesome M5?
I work 4 miles from the office so my commute will be about 8 miles a day. Once a month I do a 360 mile Motorway trip. Thats about it really, the rest of my driving is purely for the joy of driving. Does this sort of usage pattern suit an M5? I appreciate that if you are doing 20k a year in it they can be walletbustingly expensive but my mileage is much lower. How much per month would it be sensible to budget to run an M5 on this sort of mileage? Insurance doesn't seem to be an issue, I've been quoted about £800 which at 25 seems fine.
I'm fully versed in the conventional E39 foibles. What specific potential tales of woe does an M5 bring to the table? What sort of step up from my 530i am I going to be looking at regarding keeping the thing on the road?
And how much would you want to spend to get a good car?
Sensible hat on for a second - is this a good idea? I'd be changing my car for one which to everyone who knows me would look like... the same car I've had for the last 3-4 years but in a different colour. The interior is the same. It looks the same... but its worth the extra, right? Or is it going to bite me, hard?
My 530i is absolutely fantastic, should I keep it and leave the M5 the dream that never was, or is it something everyone needs to do at least once? The alternative is to hang onto the 530i for a few more years and pick up a used 535 M Sport or something in a few years time.
Thanks guys
Unfortunatly the E39 M5 is now at the price level where some owners cannot afford to maintain them properly.
Yes the immaculate cars do exist... You'll just have to look at a lot of ropey ones first.
As for using it on short commutes i'm sure one of the owners on here will be better placed to comment on that. Can't imagine it would be ideal for the car but then again it'll be brilliant at your 360 mile motorway slog..
Yes the immaculate cars do exist... You'll just have to look at a lot of ropey ones first.
As for using it on short commutes i'm sure one of the owners on here will be better placed to comment on that. Can't imagine it would be ideal for the car but then again it'll be brilliant at your 360 mile motorway slog..
Buy a moped or a bicycle for the daily commute, doing 8 miles a day in an M5 will do it no good whatsoever. The biggest differences you will notice is obviously the performance step up, the noise, the greater oil consumption, more expensive tyres, bigger servicing bills, more visits to the local petrol station if driven more than 8 miles a day and getting friendly with a good local M specialist.
Otherwise not much else if you are prepared to spend to keep your M5 in top top shape.
Otherwise not much else if you are prepared to spend to keep your M5 in top top shape.
I already have the 18 inch wheels with 265/35/18 rears at £160 a pop on my 530i Sport so I figured the tyre bill wouldn't be all that bigger. My main concern is unexpected expenditure. How often do things go pop and how many of these things are things which could just as easily fail on my 530i anyway and how many are unique to the M5?
I fear there is no 'good local M specialist' down here in Plymouth - there aren't even that many good local BMW specialists.
If it will damage the car to use it for the commute I'll have to think again - I need the car at the office for visiting other sites etc (Though the cost of this is immaterial as it's expensed at 53p a mile).
I fear there is no 'good local M specialist' down here in Plymouth - there aren't even that many good local BMW specialists.
If it will damage the car to use it for the commute I'll have to think again - I need the car at the office for visiting other sites etc (Though the cost of this is immaterial as it's expensed at 53p a mile).
Edited by Fox- on Monday 14th December 17:21
Tbh, you need to be a little flexible.
Trim wear and tear is unavoidable but far from fully restorable for some beans.
I have commuted short distances in one for years now and have only been troubled by wonky batteries; I find they don't like standing idle, too much.
Externally and mechanically, I reckon mine is tip top, all things considered and worth twelve to thriteen pounds.
I believe they are about to enter the cheapskate zone but there are plenty of well tended, 100k mile examples ready to bite and enthrall.
Like you, I have ocassional reason to go the odd distance and when you can find a stretch of m-way with little traffic, it will cruise like a limo; comfy, quiet and smooth.
Trim wear and tear is unavoidable but far from fully restorable for some beans.
I have commuted short distances in one for years now and have only been troubled by wonky batteries; I find they don't like standing idle, too much.
Externally and mechanically, I reckon mine is tip top, all things considered and worth twelve to thriteen pounds.
I believe they are about to enter the cheapskate zone but there are plenty of well tended, 100k mile examples ready to bite and enthrall.
Like you, I have ocassional reason to go the odd distance and when you can find a stretch of m-way with little traffic, it will cruise like a limo; comfy, quiet and smooth.
Fox- said:
I already have the 18 inch wheels with 265/35/18 rears at £160 a pop on my 530i Sport so I figured the tyre bill wouldn't be all that bigger. My main concern is unexpected expenditure. How often do things go pop and how many of these things are things which could just as easily fail on my 530i anyway and how many are unique to the M5?
I fear there is no 'good local M specialist' down here in Plymouth - there aren't even that many good local BMW specialists.
If it will damage the car to use it for the commute I'll have to think again - I need the car at the office for visiting other sites etc (Though the cost of this is immaterial as it's expensed at 53p a mile).
It could be the wrong car for you if you run cars with a calculator.I fear there is no 'good local M specialist' down here in Plymouth - there aren't even that many good local BMW specialists.
If it will damage the car to use it for the commute I'll have to think again - I need the car at the office for visiting other sites etc (Though the cost of this is immaterial as it's expensed at 53p a mile).
Edited by Fox- on Monday 14th December 17:21
With 400BHP and more performance than most Porsches and Ferraris feeble running costs dont really enter the equation!
I certainly dont run cars with a calculator but neither do I wish to sink 700 quid a month into repairing an 8 year old M5, if you know what I mean
At the moment, the running costs of my 530i do not trouble me in the slightest. Just want to go into the consideration of something like this with my eyes open.
At the moment, the running costs of my 530i do not trouble me in the slightest. Just want to go into the consideration of something like this with my eyes open.
I'm not sure I'm entirely qualified to answer your questions having only owned my M5 for 4 months or so, however...
- You won't get an immaculate example for £10k. You will get a very good 2001 facelift with excellent service history and about 80k. As an example I paid just over £8k for a 2001 facelift with 108k, FBMWSH, well specced, desirable colour, excellent condition interior, refurbed wheels etc. In fact, all it needed was two front tyres (Dunlop SP's @ £140 each), brake fluid/coolant change @ £140 and a some paintwork for stone chips to the front (all bonnet and blended down the wings) and a patch at the back where the grommets are, just on the bumper line @ £600.
- On a run you'll possibly get 25MPG. 4 mile each way commute expect 15MPG tops. My car is barely warmed up at 4 miles and still has rev restriction lights on. I have no idea if it's bad for the car (short journeys) as I never used mine for anything less that a 15 mile run.
- From what I gather on M5Board - there's an awful lot you can do yourself, with regard to repairs/maintenance, if you're that way inclined. I'm not. But it says something that there's an abundance of 140k examples still going strong, with a lot of 200k examples aswel. They do not have a fragile or stressed engine.
Vanos can be an issue but the more I read the more see these being repaired with replacement solanoids etc. Don't be scared when you start one up and it sounds like a diesel - most of them do. Gear boxes are pretty bullet proof. They can be heavy on brakes but again, I'm sure that depends entirely on how it's driven. I think, expect to pay about £800 for rear disks and pads?
You mention holding on for a 535d. They're not immune from huge bills. (turbo's and auto boxes).
- Performance wise - an M5 will make your current car seem like an asthmatic escort.
As I say, I've only had mine a few months and only put about 3000 miles on it but one thing's for sure, it's the only car I've ever owned that makes me feel special every time I get in it. Sure it's juicy (it's 400bhp V8 man!), yes, it's old (but it still turns the heads of those that know) and yes, there could always be a a big bill round the corner (but then you could have a gearbox/turbo go on a 3 year old diesel and be looking at £1500+ - plenty have!). My advice would be to garage/store the 530 if you can as you'll get naff all for it and spend 8-9k on a very good M5 leaving a little reserve for any bills/maintenance. Smitten, moi....possibly.
- You won't get an immaculate example for £10k. You will get a very good 2001 facelift with excellent service history and about 80k. As an example I paid just over £8k for a 2001 facelift with 108k, FBMWSH, well specced, desirable colour, excellent condition interior, refurbed wheels etc. In fact, all it needed was two front tyres (Dunlop SP's @ £140 each), brake fluid/coolant change @ £140 and a some paintwork for stone chips to the front (all bonnet and blended down the wings) and a patch at the back where the grommets are, just on the bumper line @ £600.
- On a run you'll possibly get 25MPG. 4 mile each way commute expect 15MPG tops. My car is barely warmed up at 4 miles and still has rev restriction lights on. I have no idea if it's bad for the car (short journeys) as I never used mine for anything less that a 15 mile run.
- From what I gather on M5Board - there's an awful lot you can do yourself, with regard to repairs/maintenance, if you're that way inclined. I'm not. But it says something that there's an abundance of 140k examples still going strong, with a lot of 200k examples aswel. They do not have a fragile or stressed engine.
Vanos can be an issue but the more I read the more see these being repaired with replacement solanoids etc. Don't be scared when you start one up and it sounds like a diesel - most of them do. Gear boxes are pretty bullet proof. They can be heavy on brakes but again, I'm sure that depends entirely on how it's driven. I think, expect to pay about £800 for rear disks and pads?
You mention holding on for a 535d. They're not immune from huge bills. (turbo's and auto boxes).
- Performance wise - an M5 will make your current car seem like an asthmatic escort.
As I say, I've only had mine a few months and only put about 3000 miles on it but one thing's for sure, it's the only car I've ever owned that makes me feel special every time I get in it. Sure it's juicy (it's 400bhp V8 man!), yes, it's old (but it still turns the heads of those that know) and yes, there could always be a a big bill round the corner (but then you could have a gearbox/turbo go on a 3 year old diesel and be looking at £1500+ - plenty have!). My advice would be to garage/store the 530 if you can as you'll get naff all for it and spend 8-9k on a very good M5 leaving a little reserve for any bills/maintenance. Smitten, moi....possibly.
Useful advice. Many thanks.
Did you mean I WONT get an immaculate example for £10k? You seem to have got a very good example for £8k so are you sure? By immaculate I dont mean 10k miles - I am not concerned by mileage - merely that the paintwork is in fantastic condition (I'm happy for it to have had paint) and that the interior is not worn (I bought my 530i on 140k miles and it was like a new car inside).
Have you any more pics of yours, from your profile it looks fantastic. Hard to beleive it cost just £8k.
My 535 I actually meant hanging ont the 530i for a few more years until AUC examples of the F10 535i are available. I'm not a very diesely person
Did you mean I WONT get an immaculate example for £10k? You seem to have got a very good example for £8k so are you sure? By immaculate I dont mean 10k miles - I am not concerned by mileage - merely that the paintwork is in fantastic condition (I'm happy for it to have had paint) and that the interior is not worn (I bought my 530i on 140k miles and it was like a new car inside).
Have you any more pics of yours, from your profile it looks fantastic. Hard to beleive it cost just £8k.
My 535 I actually meant hanging ont the 530i for a few more years until AUC examples of the F10 535i are available. I'm not a very diesely person
Feel fairly qualified to comment.
I had an E39 523i and now have an E39 M5.
The difference between them is night and day.
Tyre costs will be another 50% on top of what you pay currently.
She will use twice as much juice as your 530i assuming that it is no more economical than a 523i.
At £10k you might be on a pre facelift car if you want an immaculate car. Some of these (mine) have an unbelievable thirst for oil. Try a litre a week at £17 a scud.
If the VANOS goes and she's not warrantied it'll be a couple of grand minimum.
Brakes, pads and discs OEM £600 plus and she's a heavy car so you'll be using them.
Clutch and flywheel £1800
And after all of the above, well I bought mine in April and have put 22,000 miles on her. Would I do it again?In a heartbeat!!
Drive one and if you dont really really want it, then walk away, because you'll know inside the first mile.
If you want one go for it, they really are a magic machine.
I had an E39 523i and now have an E39 M5.
The difference between them is night and day.
Tyre costs will be another 50% on top of what you pay currently.
She will use twice as much juice as your 530i assuming that it is no more economical than a 523i.
At £10k you might be on a pre facelift car if you want an immaculate car. Some of these (mine) have an unbelievable thirst for oil. Try a litre a week at £17 a scud.
If the VANOS goes and she's not warrantied it'll be a couple of grand minimum.
Brakes, pads and discs OEM £600 plus and she's a heavy car so you'll be using them.
Clutch and flywheel £1800
And after all of the above, well I bought mine in April and have put 22,000 miles on her. Would I do it again?In a heartbeat!!
Drive one and if you dont really really want it, then walk away, because you'll know inside the first mile.
If you want one go for it, they really are a magic machine.
A quick check on Camskill shows that tyres are only £20 a corner more than I currently pay so that seems fine.
Are any of the warranties available for sub 100k cars worth the paper they are written on given the cars are what, 7-10 years old?
How likely is VANOS failure?
Are any of the warranties available for sub 100k cars worth the paper they are written on given the cars are what, 7-10 years old?
How likely is VANOS failure?
Edited by Fox- on Monday 14th December 21:59
Fox- said:
Are any of the warranties available for sub 100k cars worth the paper they are written on given the cars are what, 7-10 years old?
How likely is VANOS failure?
Most of the third party ones aren't up to much.. You can get a bmw one these days but it's expensive.. How likely is VANOS failure?
Double VANOS failure on the E39 M5 does happen but it's not common, more of a worst case scenario fault.
Hi Fox,
I've ran an E39 M5 for 2 years now, cover 25,000 miles and think it's still the best car in the World. I own some other nice stuff but the M5 is right up there in every way.
I use it for weekends, trips away and the occasional work run. I've used it the last month when the daily smoker has been off the road and it was a joy to do 1,000 miles a week in, fuel consuption aside.
I had a trip to Italy in it last year, just for the sake of driving. The car was superb, on Motorways, Mountain passes, everything. 2,500 miles in 3 days. It even managed 21mpg on the run, despite some "enthusistic" driving.
In the 25,000 miles, it's needed oil (lots of it), 2 sets front pads, 1 set rear, 1 change of tyres, 1 wheel bearing and has had an oil leak. Apart form Vanos rattle, it's totally imaculate.
It's now done 118k, I'd say worth about 9.5grand but still feels like it's 60K new price!
I've seen some mint ones at Hexaon and Munich legends. I'd give either of them a call as soon as you've got the funds.
As for the short journey's. Never done mine any harm. Just warm it up properly every day, don't over rev it until the Oil is fully warmed. From reading your post, I doubt you are going to thrash the car.
Any further info, give me a shout.
Richard.
I've ran an E39 M5 for 2 years now, cover 25,000 miles and think it's still the best car in the World. I own some other nice stuff but the M5 is right up there in every way.
I use it for weekends, trips away and the occasional work run. I've used it the last month when the daily smoker has been off the road and it was a joy to do 1,000 miles a week in, fuel consuption aside.
I had a trip to Italy in it last year, just for the sake of driving. The car was superb, on Motorways, Mountain passes, everything. 2,500 miles in 3 days. It even managed 21mpg on the run, despite some "enthusistic" driving.
In the 25,000 miles, it's needed oil (lots of it), 2 sets front pads, 1 set rear, 1 change of tyres, 1 wheel bearing and has had an oil leak. Apart form Vanos rattle, it's totally imaculate.
It's now done 118k, I'd say worth about 9.5grand but still feels like it's 60K new price!
I've seen some mint ones at Hexaon and Munich legends. I'd give either of them a call as soon as you've got the funds.
As for the short journey's. Never done mine any harm. Just warm it up properly every day, don't over rev it until the Oil is fully warmed. From reading your post, I doubt you are going to thrash the car.
Any further info, give me a shout.
Richard.
If youre gonna buy one, try getting one with all the major work done (like clutch, and big service and all that malarky) otherwise youll end up like me, with some big bills. Not a nice feeling, UNLESS you get the car for a very good price!!! 
(still not a nice feeling to have big service and maintenance bills paying out, but afterall, it is an M5 and not a ford fiesta 1.1 popular!)
My buddy who I got mine off, has had many, one had 180,000 miles and it ran perfect. He rates them as the best value for money car ever made, and im certainly not disagreeing
(still not a nice feeling to have big service and maintenance bills paying out, but afterall, it is an M5 and not a ford fiesta 1.1 popular!)My buddy who I got mine off, has had many, one had 180,000 miles and it ran perfect. He rates them as the best value for money car ever made, and im certainly not disagreeing
Fox- said:
I have now noticed what 'appear' to be nice E39 M5's for around the £10k mark. There are also plenty for less than £10k but I suspect these are not the sort you'd actually want to buy. I'm tentitively considering that in the next few months the time might be right to move to an M5.
The problem is, I am hugely fussy.
I think you may be in danger of being deceived by what "appear" to be excellent cars. You are looking for a car which is 7-10 years old and making a judgement based on some photographs and a short description on cars which are at the bottom end of the price bracket (even at £10k). In my experience, if you are very fussy about car condition and quality, you have to look at the most expensive cars of a particular age. The best facelift E39 M5s seem to be £17-£20k. Of course expensive doesn't automatically mean its a good car, but it's an indicator or what the best cars will achieve. The problem is, I am hugely fussy.
I have recently looked at some 2004 E46 M3s from specialists, and been hugely disappointed by poor histories, damaged paint and wheels, mixed/worn tyres etc. I recommend that you go and see what £10k gets you; that should help you decide if the budget is enough. There will be some great condition older cars out there, but they unfortunately tend to be the exception.
...also, as soon as you go past 60,000 miles, aftermarket warranties IMO are pretty poor value.
Golden rule - you get what you pay for.
Gary
...oh, and one other thought (and the reason I decided not to upgrade my E46 330Ci to an E46 M3) The E39 interior and exterior is stylish and good quality. However it certainly does not look modern today, so in 3-5 years time, how will you feel about driving a car that is several generations behind in terms of style and technology.
..for some this is not an issue, but it's with considering.
Gary
..for some this is not an issue, but it's with considering.
Gary
I had an immaculate one a few years back , cost me £25k , sold 18 months later for £17k.
I now have what you may consider a ropey one , it has the odd mark here and there but nothing you can see from 5 metres. Its done 126k miles , is the facelift 2001 model and has a much quieter engine than the pre face lift I had.
Mechanically it has no problems at all and drives every bit as good as my old one , and the best bit is it cost a lot less than the depreciation on my old one.
Don't rule out any less than perfect ones , as long as they are sound with good provenence , they can be a bargain and you can spend the money you saved bringing it back to pristine a bit at a time ,
yes I know it has the wrong wheels , I'm on the lookout for some 65M shadow chromes
I now have what you may consider a ropey one , it has the odd mark here and there but nothing you can see from 5 metres. Its done 126k miles , is the facelift 2001 model and has a much quieter engine than the pre face lift I had.
Mechanically it has no problems at all and drives every bit as good as my old one , and the best bit is it cost a lot less than the depreciation on my old one.
Don't rule out any less than perfect ones , as long as they are sound with good provenence , they can be a bargain and you can spend the money you saved bringing it back to pristine a bit at a time ,
yes I know it has the wrong wheels , I'm on the lookout for some 65M shadow chromes
Edited by R60EST on Thursday 17th December 21:14
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