Future prices

[SonicHedgeHog]

What's the general consensus on future TVR prices? Low mileage appears to be the overwhelming driver of high prices, but as chassis' get replaced and paintwork is resprayed is it going to come down to condition more than anything else? How about originality? And will the number of cars being written off and the total lack of anything similar ever being built again mean good residuals are a certainty, even if maintenance costs are not?

[V8 GRF]

Buying a TVR has always been condition based. This obsession with low mileage is a red herring imo mostly propogated by dealers trying to differenciate their offerings. I'd much rather have a car with a good number miles that's been properly maintained, a car that spends most of it's life sitting in a garage is not well cared for in my opinion.

[TVR_owner]

V8 GRF said:

A car that spends most of it's life sitting in a garage is not well cared for in my opinion.

That will be 99% of TVRs that have a garage to live in then...

Buy on condition as always is the wise advice.

But from what I see of used TVRs, well looked after low mileage cars are usually so much better condition wise than well looked after cars that have done lots of miles. Hence the usual premium (from clued-up private sellers as well as dealers).

Uunrestored good condition cars are the normally the most valuable. TVRs however seem to make little difference unless we are talking pre 70s stuff..

Edited by TVR_owner on Friday 18th December 11:16

[Chris71]

SonicHedgeHog said:

What's the general consensus on future TVR prices? Low mileage appears to be the overwhelming driver of high prices, but as chassis' get replaced and paintwork is resprayed is it going to come down to condition more than anything else? How about originality? And will the number of cars being written off and the total lack of anything similar ever being built again mean good residuals are a certainty, even if maintenance costs are not?

There will always be someone with a beard and too many copies of Sprint on their coffee table who'll pay gazillions for an original Griffith that's 500 miles from new. But in the real world, the most important thing is that bits are replaced as they fall off. IMHO it's far more important to have someone who uses and understands their car than a 'polisher' who has no idea how decrepit it may be mechanically as long as it looks shiny in the garage. When I had mine (which went on track days, sprints etc. and had thousands spent on keeping it mecahnically pristine) I spoke to a TVR owner who proudly explained his had never been over 4,000rpm. Not cold - never over 4,000rpm. If that's the case, what's the point in buying a TVR?

Sorry, rant over. Basically, for a driven car I'd say mileage - within reason - pales in significance to condition and maintenance. Obviously, a badly maintained low mileage car will be better than a badly maintained high mileage car, but that's about all you can say. A freshly rebuilt 90,000 mile engine will be better than a 10,000 mile one.

[Whiplash]

Also the more owners a TVR has had the more NEW money has been spent on it, so don't be put off by this.

[TVR_owner]

Whiplash said:

Also the more owners a TVR has had the more NEW money has been spent on it, so don't be put off by this.

Chris71 said:

There will always be someone with a beard and too many copies of Sprint on their coffee table who'll pay gazillions for an original Griffith that's 500 miles from new.

An origianl Griffith as you describe (not one of these modern things) would sell to a serious collector, not some car club anorak.

Chris71 said:

In the real world, the most important thing is that bits are replaced as they fall off.

IMHO it's far more important to replace bits before they fall off....;) But joking aside, it is possible to have someone who uses and understands their car and is a 'polisher'. Just because someone takes pride in their vehicle and takes enjoyment from polishing does not render them thickos in the maintenace department. Have a look at Graham Varleys Sagaris to give you some idea of something that bucks your sterotypical polisher.

Chris71 said:

Basically, for a driven car I'd say mileage - within reason - pales in significance to condition and maintenance. Obviously, a badly maintained low mileage car will be better than a badly maintained high mileage car, but that's about all you can say. A freshly rebuilt 90,000 mile engine will be better than a 10,000 mile one.

Sort of agree with you on the last points, other than you seem to ignore that the low mileage badly maintained car will not be as worn in all departments and paint, trim and chassis refurb can cost more than seized or unlubricated components. 100% agree about the engine (so long as it wasn't built by one of the many nuggets who proport to be TVR speialists) if we were talking about engines and not complete cars.

Edited by TVR_owner on Friday 18th December 13:48

[900T-R]

but true.

Another indicator I use is the mileage covered between the last 2 MOTs. If it's a five figure number, the car can't be that unreliable.

[Basil Brush]

There's also the fact that some cars looked as though they'd done 20k miles and been crashed when they were delivered.

[Vee8]

General prices will of course be governed by supply and demand. Within the general price trend there will of course be differences affected by condition, mileage and more esoteric issues such as paint colour.

Given that TVRs are more prone than most to be written off through accident damage, supply will diminish over the coming years. If the demand for our gas guzzling beasts is not tempered by future legislation then we can expect prices for Griffiths,Chimaeras,Cerberas et al to harden then rise.

[TVR_owner]

900T-R said:

but true.

but tosh. Cars need money spending because they are broken or owners deciede to upgrade, not because they have a new owner. Owners that upgrade tend to keep their cars.

[TVR_owner]

Vee8 said:

Supply will diminish over the coming years. If the demand for our gas guzzling beasts is not tempered by future legislation then we can expect prices for Griffiths,Chimaeras,Cerberas et al to harden then rise.

Supply will diminsh because the cost of restoring a TVR is not refelected in the market value of the car in restored condition - rarely is with any car other than super exotica.

The "mass produced" TVRs are getting to the age where they need serious money spending on them - probably prematurely because TVR were building more per week than they could had they been built to an acceptable standards in areas that matter in the medium to lomng term.

[Phil Dicky]

My Cerb with 46k on it covered most of its mileage in the first 3 years (with some big bills)and has since covered 'normal' TVR mileage. The key for me was the chassis which was top condition, the bodywork is ok, the engine sound. plenty to do to get it tip top but thats all the fun

[900T-R]

TVR_owner said:

900T-R said:

but true.

but tosh. Cars need money spending because they are broken or owners deciede to upgrade, not because they have a new owner. Owners that upgrade tend to keep their cars.

Nah, you'd lose count of the number of owners of run-down cars that have failed to notice the (non-cosmetic) deterioration and suppose that their car has always been like that. Then a fresh owner jumps in and compiles a 'to do' list as long as their arm in the course of a few outings.

Let's just say that -unless a mechanical catatrophe happens - major expenditures thend to come near the beginning of an ownership period than towards the end.

[TVR_owner]

900T-R said:

TVR_owner said:

900T-R said:

but true.

but tosh. Cars need money spending because they are broken or owners deciede to upgrade, not because they have a new owner. Owners that upgrade tend to keep their cars.

Nah, you'd lose count of the number of owners of run-down cars that have failed to notice the (non-cosmetic) deterioration and suppose that their car has always been like that. Then a fresh owner jumps in and compiles a 'to do' list as long as their arm in the course of a few outings.

Let's just say that -unless a mechanical catatrophe happens - major expenditures thend to come near the beginning of an ownership period than towards the end.

I think I understand the logic, but I'm not sure how twisted it is yet...Before I consider it I need beer after an out of body experience with a German Volvo dealership. During drinking of said beer, I need to contemplate driving 600 miles to Rotterdam in "limp get me home mode" in my 14,000 mile year and a bit old Volvo XC90 cos the dealer couldn't remedy the cause of a fault code in the 5 days available to him...

[900T-R]

Should've taken the reliable TVR... ... What's your plans for Rotterdam anyway?

[TVR_owner]

900T-R said:

Should've taken the reliable TVR... ... What's your plans for Rotterdam anyway?

Just to jump on a ferry on the way home.

[SonicHedgeHog]

I'm inclined to agree that condition will be extremely important. For me, the main factor that will probably ensure good residuals is the absence of anything similar ever being built again. There are plenty of 'modern' cars I admire and virtually all of them are better on a purely objective level. But it is simply impossible to buy anything even remotely like a TVR for less than £100k. Even then you're into the realms of strange exotica that few people have heard of. Sad, really.

[Gazzab]

Too difficult to predict the future prices - we are in an age of the demise of big engined cars, of legislation, green army, western economy melt down, the rise of the east etc.... My view is just enjoy em while you can regardless of the money.

[LordGrover]

In the c. three years I've had mine I reckon depreciation is about zero.
It's cost me more than the original buying price to do so, but it's still worth pretty much the same as I paid for it. Loadsa miles, and it shows, but it's sound. Click

[JR]

TVR_owner said:

the low mileage badly maintained car will not be as worn in all departments and paint, trim and chassis refurb can cost more than seized or unlubricated components.

There you go again on this low mileage may be good theme. Forget the rest of the car, fatigue on all components, inc chassis, and definite wear on everything from a for A-frames, b for Bushes, c for Clutches, D for diffs... this is Pistonheads. Then we can all sell our worn out high mileage cars for a fortune and buy the un-used ones for peanuts. Ever read any George Orwell?