Nearside inner rim tyre wear - could it be the bushes?

[DFXKR]

Hi first timer here.

I own a 2001 XKR100. Had it for two and a half years now. When I bought it had new tyres all round. Covered 9100 miles since and had a MOT yesterday with a surprise advisory of front nearside tyre wear on the inner edge. Most of the tyre has good tread so not a fail but advised I had the tracking seen to. The other 3 tyres are all good.

I took it to National tyres and they checked the tracking and told me that it was inside the limits and didnt need adjustment. They suggested that it could be wear or degregation of the bushes (5 per side I believe). Has anyone had a similar problem with tyre wear and can anyone advise if the bushes can be a DIY job or are they too difficult to get out without using a press? Or could it be something else??

Thank you for any help and advice offered.

[400+bhp]

not an expert but a recent visit to a jag specialist to have my xkr inspected underside and bushes etc was told a weak point is the wishbones resulting in uneven tyre wear luckily mine was all fine, so its a maybe?? goodluck

[Jaguar steve]

If it's had a thorough MOT and they found nothing wrong with any of the suspension components it could well be the lower wishbone bushes. Take it to a alignment centre with a proper Hunter 4 wheel alignment rig and ask them to check the camber on both front wheels. If there's excess negative camber on the side with the worn tyre and it's in spec on the side with the good one then that's the most likley cause.

Personally I wouldnt even think about doing it myself. You'll need a proper Jaguar front spring compressor to safely remove the wishbones, a 10 ton press and a selection of the right size mandrels to get the bushes in and out and chances are you'll be strugging with a whole selection of half sezied fastenings too. If it were mine I'd buy a suspension overhaul kit and get the whole lot - bushes and ball joints whether they needed it or not right through by a good Jaguar indy in one go on both sides. This is much more cost effective in the long run and you're sure you've fixed it and you are not wasting cash when you have the suspension re aligned straight afterwards.

Edited by Jaguar steve on Monday 21st December 07:03

[massivemoto]

Jaguar steve said:

If it's had a thorough MOT and they found nothing wrong with any of the suspension components it could well be the lower wishbone bushes. Take it to a alignment centre with a proper Hunter 4 wheel alignment rig and ask them to check the camber on both front wheels. If there's excess negative camber on the side with the worn tyre and it's in spec on the side with the good one then that's the most likley cause.

Personally I wouldnt even think about doing it myself. You'll need a proper Jaguar front spring compressor to safely remove the wishbones, a 10 ton press and a selection of the right size mandrels to get the bushes in and out and chances are you'll be strugging with a whole selection of half sezied fastenings too. If it were mine I'd buy a suspension overhaul kit and get the whole lot - bushes and ball joints whether they needed it or not right through by a good Jaguar indy in one go on both sides. This is much more cost effective in the long run and you're sure you've fixed it and you are not wasting cash when you have the suspension re aligned straight afterwards.

Edited by Jaguar steve on Monday 21st December 07:03

Agreed, except that very few workshops will fit own parts. Tough one this. The bushes are pennies to buy yourself but charged out very high by workshops. Wish someone would come up with a split poly version.

[DFXKR]

Thanks for your help and suggestions

I've been in touch with Elite & Performance Jags in Derby who said it would first need checking out and then we will take it from there. They said it would be around £1000 for all bushes and I think that just one side??

Ill take it down for the check up in the new year. In the mean time if anyone has had bushes changed I would be interested to know how much they were charged.

Thanks again.

[massivemoto]

DFXKR said:

Thanks for your help and suggestions

I've been in touch with Elite & Performance Jags in Derby who said it would first need checking out and then we will take it from there. They said it would be around £1000 for all bushes and I think that just one side??

Ill take it down for the check up in the new year. In the mean time if anyone has had bushes changed I would be interested to know how much they were charged.

Thanks again.

I was charged about the same on an XJR. Bushes are £13.95 each from britishparts.co.uk and £195 for a complete front end kit, including ball joints, drop links etc. both sides. In hindsight, I'd have done that and spent the other £800 on a really nice press.

[Jaguar steve]

massivemoto said:

DFXKR said:

Thanks for your help and suggestions

I've been in touch with Elite & Performance Jags in Derby who said it would first need checking out and then we will take it from there. They said it would be around £1000 for all bushes and I think that just one side??

Ill take it down for the check up in the new year. In the mean time if anyone has had bushes changed I would be interested to know how much they were charged.

Thanks again.

I was charged about the same on an XJR. Bushes are £13.95 each from britishparts.co.uk and £195 for a complete front end kit, including ball joints, drop links etc. both sides. In hindsight, I'd have done that and spent the other £800 on a really nice press.

You don't need to spend that much on a press that'd do the job. Machine Mart have a bench mounted one for around £200, the spring compressor is available to hire from the JEC at £40 a week, so in theory you'd spend about £250 on tools, £200 or so on parts and maybe about £120 on two alignment sessions. You could cut and burn the old bushes out - somtimes this is the only way if they are really seized in - and you might have the right sized sockets and odds and ends lying about to use as mandrels to press the new ones in.

I'm really guessing here - it's a long time ago since I had XJ front suspension spread all over the garage floor but I'd think about 3 hours a side would not be unreasonable. Certainly no more than a day's work anyway so a total of a grand for the job is not too far off the mark.

[DTYPE]

Hi,

I wouldn't normally reply to any post regarding a potential customers car but felt obliged to clear up some of the numbers being mentioned before someone thinks they have all the answers for £20!

After a short discussion I suggested it would be best to inspect the vehicle first to establish what if any bushes need replacing, I also mentioned that to replace all the bushes off the top of my head would be around the £1000.00 mark. We have fixed prices per side for all of the common stuff on the X100 models as we see sooo many of them, together with the X150 they must account for 65%+ of the Jaguars we see in the workshop.

To clarify what I was including in that rough estimate:
1, N/S & O/S upper wishbone bushes £267.00
2, N/S & O/S lower wishbone bushes £339.90
3, N/S & O/S lower shock absorber bushes £214.38
4, Front subframe 'V' mount bushes £255.00
5, Geometry alignment on completion
6, Labour for all of the above

Total for all of the above £1076.28 All prices are plus vat.

All of the sided items can be halved in cost if a customer wishes to replace just the one side.

Their are more items that can be replaced but these are the common ones that have an impact on proper geometry set up so that is why they were mentioned and quickly estimated on potential cost.

Unlike many garages these days, we will invite a customer into the workshop if wished to view/have the areas of concern pointed out/explained prior to replacement if arranged in advance so we can schedule having the car on a ramp.

No offence is meant to anyone, I just wanted the correct figures known before comparisons are made against work which may or may not include the same items. (Jaguar Steve, mentions XJ front suspension, DFXKR has an XKR which has a different set-up. Easy miss read but people can quickly start to make assumptions rightly or wrongly)

Regards

Dan
EAPJ www.eapj.com

Best wishes for a Happy Christmas & New Year to all the Jaguar folk.

[massivemoto]

DTYPE said:

Hi,

I wouldn't normally reply to any post regarding a potential customers car but felt obliged to clear up some of the numbers being mentioned before someone thinks they have all the answers for £20!

After a short discussion I suggested it would be best to inspect the vehicle first to establish what if any bushes need replacing, I also mentioned that to replace all the bushes off the top of my head would be around the £1000.00 mark. We have fixed prices per side for all of the common stuff on the X100 models as we see sooo many of them, together with the X150 they must account for 65%+ of the Jaguars we see in the workshop.

To clarify what I was including in that rough estimate:
1, N/S & O/S upper wishbone bushes £267.00
2, N/S & O/S lower wishbone bushes £339.90
3, N/S & O/S lower shock absorber bushes £214.38
4, Front subframe 'V' mount bushes £255.00
5, Geometry alignment on completion
6, Labour for all of the above

Total for all of the above £1076.28 All prices are plus vat.

All of the sided items can be halved in cost if a customer wishes to replace just the one side.

Their are more items that can be replaced but these are the common ones that have an impact on proper geometry set up so that is why they were mentioned and quickly estimated on potential cost.

Unlike many garages these days, we will invite a customer into the workshop if wished to view/have the areas of concern pointed out/explained prior to replacement if arranged in advance so we can schedule having the car on a ramp.

No offence is meant to anyone, I just wanted the correct figures known before comparisons are made against work which may or may not include the same items. (Jaguar Steve, mentions XJ front suspension, DFXKR has an XKR which has a different set-up. Easy miss read but people can quickly start to make assumptions rightly or wrongly)

Regards

Dan
EAPJ www.eapj.com

Best wishes for a Happy Christmas & New Year to all the Jaguar folk.

Just to clafify that, the work I had done was work was XJ8R, but the example parts price given was for XK8. The set ups are different but the proceedure broadly similar in terms of labour required. I'd say your pricing is about right and rather better than some others, for what is included. Having done a couple of these on an x300 and an xk8, it is definitely one of those jobs which is relatively simple in a fully equipped workshop.....and a complete pig otherwise.

[DFXKR]

It’s reassuring to see that my local Indy jag specialist also takes an interest in the forums. EAPJ have an excellent reputation which is why I went to see them. On my own inspection the Bushes seem fine, no sign of any wear but who am I to say? That is why I'll let the experts decide. Fingers crossed it may be the camber alignment but not with my luck!

I love this car but it was always a risk owning as I am not a rich man. Hence the shock at an hefty bill for bush replacement. However, if this gives me another 50k miles (and I only do about 4k careful driving miles per annum)it may be worth the expense.

As Dan at eapj suggests, I'll let the experts take a view and then I will look at my options.

Thanks again for your help and advice.

[wsa]

Hi gents
My 1997 XJ8 eats front tyres and I have the same problem as referred to above - namely, the tyres wear on the inside edges leaving plenty of tread elsewhere. Result - one throws away two tyres with perhaps another 15,000 miles of tread just because of the loss of an inch of tread - [illegal in France, where I live, for any tread less than 1.6 mms - unlike UK where one can have less than the minimum over a quarter of the tyre width - any of you taking a holiday in France please note to avoid a hefty fine!]. The car has had more full geometry checks than most drivers pay for in a lifetime and the car is subjected to the rigorous 2 year French MOT test during which they use a machine which violently shakes the front wheels to determine play. No problems detected. However, the previous correspondence suggests that wear in the lower wishbone bushes might not be detected by such testing. Have I misunderstood? How does one detect such wear? An explanation for a simpleton would be appreciated as I need to understand what is said and then explain the issue in French to my local garage.
William

[massivemoto]

wsa said:

Hi gents
My 1997 XJ8 eats front tyres and I have the same problem as referred to above - namely, the tyres wear on the inside edges leaving plenty of tread elsewhere. Result - one throws away two tyres with perhaps another 15,000 miles of tread just because of the loss of an inch of tread - [illegal in France, where I live, for any tread less than 1.6 mms - unlike UK where one can have less than the minimum over a quarter of the tyre width - any of you taking a holiday in France please note to avoid a hefty fine!]. The car has had more full geometry checks than most drivers pay for in a lifetime and the car is subjected to the rigorous 2 year French MOT test during which they use a machine which violently shakes the front wheels to determine play. No problems detected. However, the previous correspondence suggests that wear in the lower wishbone bushes might not be detected by such testing. Have I misunderstood? How does one detect such wear? An explanation for a simpleton would be appreciated as I need to understand what is said and then explain the issue in French to my local garage.
William

The bushes go soft, rather than actually failing. It is difficult to detect except by the resulting tyre wear you've described. When the car is on the ground, with full weight on the wheels, the metal insert which runs through the middle of the bush should look central. If the rubber is squished on one side with the car stationary, the bush is seriously worn. Unfortunately, it can still be soft enough to cause problems, but look perfect and bounce back to give proper alignment when not under compression/cornering load. It's unlikely to knock when shaken or the rim is pulled about, even with a lever. Most of the problems are due to lower arm bushes, which carry the greatest horizontal load, though if you're taking it apart, it makes sense to do the uppers too. I'd complete the job with fresh ball joints, since they're so cheap.

[wsa]

Many thanks for the full and quick response. I will take this up with my local garage and change the offending parts.