Pavements in Aberdeen City
Discussion
Absolutely correct.
Never mind that nearly all the main roads in the north of Scotland were closed due to snow last night, and that every available man and gritter was probably struggling to get further than a few miles from the salt stores.
Never mind that it's almost impossible to keep roads clear when snow keeps falling, so that you have to go over and over the same main roads again. If it falls and stops, at least once you clear a road it stays clear for a while.
Never mind that the Council doesn't really have an obligation to clear roads and footpaths, they only legally have to take "reasonable steps" to do so - the onus is on the driver or walker to drive or walk according to the conditions.
Never mind that gritter squads and their supervisors have probably been working 18 hour days since Thursday to keep on top of the constant on-off snow.
Never mind that 99.9% of the complaining gits who moan about the lack of gritters have never actually tried it to see how bloody hard it is to keep on top of severe weather conditions.
No, never mind any of that - we can't have slippy pavements in Aberdeen, can we?
Never mind that nearly all the main roads in the north of Scotland were closed due to snow last night, and that every available man and gritter was probably struggling to get further than a few miles from the salt stores.
Never mind that it's almost impossible to keep roads clear when snow keeps falling, so that you have to go over and over the same main roads again. If it falls and stops, at least once you clear a road it stays clear for a while.
Never mind that the Council doesn't really have an obligation to clear roads and footpaths, they only legally have to take "reasonable steps" to do so - the onus is on the driver or walker to drive or walk according to the conditions.
Never mind that gritter squads and their supervisors have probably been working 18 hour days since Thursday to keep on top of the constant on-off snow.
Never mind that 99.9% of the complaining gits who moan about the lack of gritters have never actually tried it to see how bloody hard it is to keep on top of severe weather conditions.
No, never mind any of that - we can't have slippy pavements in Aberdeen, can we?
tvrgit said:
Absolutely correct.
Never mind that nearly all the main roads in the north of Scotland were closed due to snow last night, and that every available man and gritter was probably struggling to get further than a few miles from the salt stores.
Never mind that it's almost impossible to keep roads clear when snow keeps falling, so that you have to go over and over the same main roads again. If it falls and stops, at least once you clear a road it stays clear for a while.
Never mind that the Council doesn't really have an obligation to clear roads and footpaths, they only legally have to take "reasonable steps" to do so - the onus is on the driver or walker to drive or walk according to the conditions.
Never mind that gritter squads and their supervisors have probably been working 18 hour days since Thursday to keep on top of the constant on-off snow.
Never mind that 99.9% of the complaining gits who moan about the lack of gritters have never actually tried it to see how bloody hard it is to keep on top of severe weather conditions.
No, never mind any of that - we can't have slippy pavements in Aberdeen, can we?
You know, I have absolutely no idea how to respond to that ... so I think I'll just leave it. Never mind that nearly all the main roads in the north of Scotland were closed due to snow last night, and that every available man and gritter was probably struggling to get further than a few miles from the salt stores.
Never mind that it's almost impossible to keep roads clear when snow keeps falling, so that you have to go over and over the same main roads again. If it falls and stops, at least once you clear a road it stays clear for a while.
Never mind that the Council doesn't really have an obligation to clear roads and footpaths, they only legally have to take "reasonable steps" to do so - the onus is on the driver or walker to drive or walk according to the conditions.
Never mind that gritter squads and their supervisors have probably been working 18 hour days since Thursday to keep on top of the constant on-off snow.
Never mind that 99.9% of the complaining gits who moan about the lack of gritters have never actually tried it to see how bloody hard it is to keep on top of severe weather conditions.
No, never mind any of that - we can't have slippy pavements in Aberdeen, can we?
Thanks for your input though.
Cheers,
Eric
Great Pretender said:
Kiltie said:
Shocking! I expect A&E will be flooded with fracture cases.
The cooncil should be shot.
Cheers,
Eric
The roads aren't much better either.The cooncil should be shot.
Cheers,
Eric
I've been having the time of my lif... err, I mean, I'm absolutely appalled at the lack of road salt etc.
tvrgit said:
Never mind that 99.9% of the complaining gits who moan about the lack of gritters have never actually tried it to see how bloody hard it is to keep on top of severe weather conditions.
My grandfather drove a gritter on one of the worst parts of the A9 for 30 odd years so yes i've been there,a lot of fun it was too.Things are a fair bit different now to those days though and the job seems to far more difficult,i mean look at all that fancy machinery they have to deal with
Kiltie said:
You know, I have absolutely no idea how to respond to that ... so I think I'll just leave it.
Thanks for your input though.
Cheers,
Eric
Sorry, I've been listening all day to people on the TV and radio complaining about gritters, as they do every time it gets a bit nippy, without a bleeding clue as to what's involved. Thanks for your input though.
Cheers,
Eric
apologies for the sarcasm - quite unwarranted, all I should have said is that there are only a limited number of drivers, who are only allowed to work a limited number of hours, and a limited number of machines. In falling snow, they have to prioritise getting the main roads open, and then side roads and footpaths. If they are struggling with the main roads then the footpaths might not get done for a couple of days.
Cheers
tvrgit said:
Sorry, I've been listening all day to people on the TV and radio complaining about gritters, as they do every time it gets a bit nippy, without a bleeding clue as to what's involved.
apologies for the sarcasm - quite unwarranted, all I should have said is that there are only a limited number of drivers, who are only allowed to work a limited number of hours, and a limited number of machines. In falling snow, they have to prioritise getting the main roads open, and then side roads and footpaths. If they are struggling with the main roads then the footpaths might not get done for a couple of days.
Cheers
You're obviously informed on this subject and I don't want to pick hairs, but last year the pavements on Great Western Road weren't done even once during the spell of bad weather we had. I should know, I used to walk from Mannofield to the city centre and back each day. I saw countless people falling over (including myelf twice) and helped pick up two old ladies outside the shops (no jokes, please apologies for the sarcasm - quite unwarranted, all I should have said is that there are only a limited number of drivers, who are only allowed to work a limited number of hours, and a limited number of machines. In falling snow, they have to prioritise getting the main roads open, and then side roads and footpaths. If they are struggling with the main roads then the footpaths might not get done for a couple of days.
Cheers
). It was absolutely treacherous (and yes, the roads had all been cleared)What happened to all the pavement ploughs/mini gritters that used to go about? Is it a coincidence that the limited number of machines, drivers and hours coincided with Aberdeen council getting £50million in debt?
Or am I just a cynic, watching my council tax increase every year with a noticeable drop off in services...
I'm not jumping on the bandwagon of 'why weren't the council gritting a week before the snow' as I know that resources are limited, but to just the ignore major hazards for over a week to reduce cost (IMHO) was inept management. I'm out in the country now with no pavements, so can't comment on this year. Maybe I'm doing the council a diservice and it has improved dramatically in the last year? But from Kiltie's post, I would guess not...
Edited by offshorematt2 on Monday 21st December 19:19
It's a long, long time since I was involved in this, and it wasn't in Aberdeen, so I can't answer specifics.
However, when you say that failing to clear footpaths to reduce costs, amounts to mismanagement, I would only say this: the budget for this, along with road maintenance, street lighting, road marking, and everything else you can think of, is going down in real terms, year-on-year. Each Council has a certain amount of money, and to an extent, it's up to them how they spend it - and road maintenance, including snow clearing, doesn't appear as high on the parties' manifestos as education and social work and all the other high-profile vote-winners.
Add to that that, in law, there is no obligation on the Council to clear roads or footpaths - they have to take such steps as they consider reasonable, that's all. Also, because snow clearance is something you don't always need, and it's an easy target for cutbacks.
Of course, when things go wrong and the area comes to a halt, everybody is quick to blame the drivers and their supervisors etc - but they can only work within the resources they have been allocated. When they run out of salt, they're out of salt. When they need 20 machines but only 10 are available because that's all they replaced, then 10 machines it is. When the bins don't get emptied because the drivers have been out all night, they don't get enmptied.
You're not wrong to use the term mismanagement. For the most part, though, I would aim that at certain people who make the promises and set the budgets, and are tucked up cosy in their beddy-baws hoping that the working all night up to their arse in snow so that roads will be cleared and they'll be able to get to their meeting in the morning without getting their shoes wet.
However, when you say that failing to clear footpaths to reduce costs, amounts to mismanagement, I would only say this: the budget for this, along with road maintenance, street lighting, road marking, and everything else you can think of, is going down in real terms, year-on-year. Each Council has a certain amount of money, and to an extent, it's up to them how they spend it - and road maintenance, including snow clearing, doesn't appear as high on the parties' manifestos as education and social work and all the other high-profile vote-winners.
Add to that that, in law, there is no obligation on the Council to clear roads or footpaths - they have to take such steps as they consider reasonable, that's all. Also, because snow clearance is something you don't always need, and it's an easy target for cutbacks.
Of course, when things go wrong and the area comes to a halt, everybody is quick to blame the drivers and their supervisors etc - but they can only work within the resources they have been allocated. When they run out of salt, they're out of salt. When they need 20 machines but only 10 are available because that's all they replaced, then 10 machines it is. When the bins don't get emptied because the drivers have been out all night, they don't get enmptied.
You're not wrong to use the term mismanagement. For the most part, though, I would aim that at certain people who make the promises and set the budgets, and are tucked up cosy in their beddy-baws hoping that the working all night up to their arse in snow so that roads will be cleared and they'll be able to get to their meeting in the morning without getting their shoes wet.
istoo said:
Great Pretender said:
Kiltie said:
Shocking! I expect A&E will be flooded with fracture cases.
The cooncil should be shot.
Cheers,
Eric
The roads aren't much better either.The cooncil should be shot.
Cheers,
Eric
I've been having the time of my lif... err, I mean, I'm absolutely appalled at the lack of road salt etc.
cc8s said:
Has anybody worked out what they spend our taxes on yet?
Rarely any police, an NHS that is *apparently* falling apart, potholes, no gritting, less grass cutting, less bin collections, rarely any street cleaning... what do they do??
Goes in to their pension fund.Rarely any police, an NHS that is *apparently* falling apart, potholes, no gritting, less grass cutting, less bin collections, rarely any street cleaning... what do they do??
Oh, and their pay increases.
cc8s said:
Has anybody worked out what they spend our taxes on yet?
Rarely any police, an NHS that is *apparently* falling apart, potholes, no gritting, less grass cutting, less bin collections, rarely any street cleaning... what do they do??
Here, have the official ACC Rarely any police, an NHS that is *apparently* falling apart, potholes, no gritting, less grass cutting, less bin collections, rarely any street cleaning... what do they do??
clicky for larger
Some better news tho... it's snowing again
tvrgit said:
You're not wrong to use the term mismanagement. For the most part, though, I would aim that at certain people who make the promises and set the budgets, and are tucked up cosy in their beddy-baws hoping that the working all night up to their arse in snow so that roads will be cleared and they'll be able to get to their meeting in the morning without getting their shoes wet.
I agree 100% Sorry if it came across that I was blaming the drivers - it never crossed my mind that the issue lies anywhere other than with the top/middle management, due to a desire to cut costs with simply a 'cross the fingers and hope' contingency in place.
That said, a pavement gritter just drove past my office. Maybe Aberdeen City Council read Pistonheads
offshorematt2 said:
tvrgit said:
You're not wrong to use the term mismanagement. For the most part, though, I would aim that at certain people who make the promises and set the budgets, and are tucked up cosy in their beddy-baws hoping that the working all night up to their arse in snow so that roads will be cleared and they'll be able to get to their meeting in the morning without getting their shoes wet.
I agree 100% Sorry if it came across that I was blaming the drivers - it never crossed my mind that the issue lies anywhere other than with the top/middle management, due to a desire to cut costs with simply a 'cross the fingers and hope' contingency in place.
That said, a pavement gritter just drove past my office. Maybe Aberdeen City Council read Pistonheads
I wouldn't expect any manifesto to get that specific...may want to promise better value for our council tax though.
Does the snow clearance come under the roads department? Because if it does, I can imagine plenty of better places to have saved the money rather than the drivers/gritters etc. Those effing useless traffic announcement boards they put up on each arterial route for instance. 'City centre congested' or 'drive slowly' - yeah, good use of funds.
I don't believe for a second that the elected officials get that involved with departmental budgets - they approve or disprove the departmental projections. Blame/accountability has to lie with middle and senior management. Perhasps not 100% but that is the job they are being paid to do. No project manager has an open budget - it's about managing that budget. Something Aberdeen Council seem unable to do.
Anyway, I think this has gone a little off topic! Getting like the Pie and Piston in here - we'll be debating climate change next...
Does the snow clearance come under the roads department? Because if it does, I can imagine plenty of better places to have saved the money rather than the drivers/gritters etc. Those effing useless traffic announcement boards they put up on each arterial route for instance. 'City centre congested' or 'drive slowly' - yeah, good use of funds.
I don't believe for a second that the elected officials get that involved with departmental budgets - they approve or disprove the departmental projections. Blame/accountability has to lie with middle and senior management. Perhasps not 100% but that is the job they are being paid to do. No project manager has an open budget - it's about managing that budget. Something Aberdeen Council seem unable to do.
Anyway, I think this has gone a little off topic! Getting like the Pie and Piston in here - we'll be debating climate change next...
Edited by offshorematt2 on Tuesday 22 December 09:50
offshorematt2 said:
Those effing useless traffic announcement boards they put up on each arterial route for instance. 'City centre congested' or 'drive slowly' - yeah, good use of funds.
Today it was: 'Improve your local environment, use the park and ride.' There you go, the best advice the council has for city drivers on great northern road isn't 'avoid such and such, it's clogged up' or 'such and such is an ice rink just now.' Nope, their best advidce is to drive to westhill and take a bus back into town! 
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