engine mileage and wear problems

[hallsie]

Hi all

Ive been doing a bit of research on the XKs and have continually trawled up the problems with the nicasil liners (sp)
Im possibly looking at an early 8 with average mileage, around th 110-140 mark.

Would you expect to see the liners done at this point in the engines life, or is it a potential money pit to buy one without major work having been done.?
Im not overly put off by the prospect of engine rebuilds having come from the TVR side of the forum, just want to try and figure it in to a potential purchase if the engine potentialy needs work in the (mileage based) future.

Thanks in advance

Stu

[NormanD]

If the engine has come this far after the bad petrol in the 90's you should not have a problem

Infact for long life you should have the better engine

[DFXKR]

I know what you mean about the Nikosil engines. Even if they have comes so far you are still looking for piece of mind. When I puchased mine I decided it had to be post 2000 where the switch to steel liners came in. I also decided on a XKR in preference to the 8. I spent quite a lot of time researching as this was a major investment for me. I found an XKR100 limited edition going for a song. After viewing quite a few it was obvious this car had been well looked after and I have had 2 1/2 years of trouble free driving until the last MOT where it was found that the nearside tyre had worn. Probably a bush problem, which will happen on any XK over time. Mine has done 59K miles and as far as I know the bushes havent been changed and it will be expensive. This is something you should also consider.

Good luck in your search.

[Jaguar steve]

The steel liner engines were introduced around the same time as the phasing out of high sulphur content petrol. Sme say they were introduced in september 1999 for the 2000 model year and others claim the introduction was as late as August 2000. Exact dates are uncertain - the factory has never to my knowledge provided the information and there is some controversy with the often quoted method of checking the VIN number too. Supposedly if you have a F before the last 5 numbers of the VIN then you have a steel liner engine and this apparently applies to all the V8 models. If you have 6 numbers and no letter at the end of the VIN then you've got a Nikasil engine. Whoever you ask seems to have slightly different information, but in any case there should be no problem with a 2000 onwards car as regardess of which liners the engine has the engine will never have been exposed to high sulphur content fuel which combined with short journeys and frequent warm up cycles caused the Nikasil lining errosion in the first place.

You can always have a blowby test done at a dealer or independent if you are unsure. If you want a quick check then see how easily the engine starts from stone cold - does it have a smooth idle - and is there any evidence of oil deposits in the air intake trunking? If you see none of the above then chances are it'll be OK.

[avos]

There is no controversy, only people spreading wrong information without having done any serious investigations (which I did some years ago).

Here is an official quote from Jaguar (Service Bulletin 491v7):
"Following an extensive development program, Jaguar has decided to introduce cast iron cylinder liners in lieu of plated bores for all AJV8 engines.
This change was introduced in September 2000 for all production engines with no impact on performance,
economy, or emissions."

Some owners with engines build in 2000 (so before September) had also incurred nikasil damage. My engine from May 2000 was also confirmed by Jaguar to have nikasil, and I have been able to confirm this myself with the heads off.

[Jaguar steve]

avos said:

There is no controversy, only people spreading wrong information without having done any serious investigations (which I did some years ago).

Here is an official quote from Jaguar (Service Bulletin 491v7):
"Following an extensive development program, Jaguar has decided to introduce cast iron cylinder liners in lieu of plated bores for all AJV8 engines.
This change was introduced in September 2000 for all production engines with no impact on performance,
economy, or emissions."

Some owners with engines build in 2000 (so before September) had also incurred nikasil damage. My engine from May 2000 was also confirmed by Jaguar to have nikasil, and I have been able to confirm this myself with the heads off.

I looked into this too in 2005, just before I bought my XJ. You'll remember that was a time when the issue was widely reported and I was almost impossible to read a single sentence about Jaguar without the Nikasil issue coming up.

I phoned Jaguar Technicial help and gave them the last 6 figures of the VIN number of the car I was looking at and subsequently bought - F followed by five numbers - and was assured by two different people that I had one of the first steel liner engines fitted. My car was registered on 5th July 2000 so obviously must have been built before then. This agrees with a rather vauge article in Jaguar World magazine of November 2004 which states that the issue had largely disapeared by then due both to extra refining of fuel to bring the sulphur content down from a max of 150ppm and adoption of steel liners.

However this is obviously wrong according the service bulletin you have which incidentally also agrees with other posts on PH and elsewhere regarding dates for the change

I've been told by a Jaguar indy that the changeover was not universal - regardless of whether a 3.2 or 4.0l was fitted some cars left the factory with steel lined engines and some with Nikasil coating for a while. Whether this is true or not I've no idea but it might be so as old stock engines were used up.

Whatever, IMO the OP has no real need for concern now. If a Nikasil coated engine has lasted this long following the withdrawal of high Sulphur content fuel in summer of 2000 then chances are it'll last as well or maybe even longer then a steel lined one.

Far more important now is the replacement of timing chain tensioners, gearbox and diff oil changes, and regular servicing as well as overall condition if you're thinking about buying an earlier V8.

[hallsie]

Thanks for all the replys guys.
Seems like i could potentially be ok with an engine not having had the liners done.
having said that, what prices would I be looking at for the liners to be changed from an independant garage?
Im not shy in the mechanics department and changing the liners wouldnt be past the realms of my ability, just well out of reach in time limits.

One of the cars ive seen has had liners done and one hasnt!!

I was also thinking that perhaps it may end up being a weekend car due to having three other cars and a bike to play with.

The search continues.

Stu

[NormanD]

hallsie said:

Having said that, what prices would I be looking at for the liners to be changed from an independant garage?

I've not heard of retrofit liners done before

So would imagine new or second hand engine
A good secondhand engine you would be looking at up to £1,000 plus another £1,000 for the swap

[Jaguar steve]

NormanD said:

hallsie said:

Having said that, what prices would I be looking at for the liners to be changed from an independant garage?

I've not heard of retrofit liners done before

So would imagine new or second hand engine
A good secondhand engine you would be looking at up to £1,000 plus another £1,000 for the swap

There are no Nikasil "liners" in the conventional sense of a cylinder liner. The Nikasil coating is deposited directly onto machined bores in the aluminium engine block. Once the coating has failed the only thing you can do with the block is buy a sheet of glass and turn it into a rather expensive coffee table.

If you did, no doubt SWMBO would remind you how much the replacement engine cost every time she did the housework.

I have read somwhere there was a engineering company in the States who at one time were machining out failed Nikasil blocks to oversize and pressing in steel liners as part of a complete engine rebuild. I'd hardly expect that to be a cost effective option now, but it may have been at one time as at the height of the Nikasil crisis good second hand V8s would have been very thin on the ground in the US.

[P-1]

As someone has said, you won't be able to re-liner an existing block but there are plenty of blocks out there now that have gone through re-manufacturing companies

[a8hex]

Jaguar steve said:

I have read somwhere there was a engineering company in the States who at one time were machining out failed Nikasil blocks to oversize and pressing in steel liners as part of a complete engine rebuild. I'd hardly expect that to be a cost effective option now, but it may have been at one time as at the height of the Nikasil crisis good second hand V8s would have been very thin on the ground in the US.

I think that RGCs may have done this too.
I was once shown a 4L engine they'd rebuilt to 4.2L spec.

[RW774]

I have linered quite a few of these engines with good results.Cranks tend to get scored easily due to crap oil change intervals and these now can be reground with oversize shells, so Fords` idea of a none reconditionable engine has quickly been reversed.Cranks originally were sized in 10ths of a thou dependant on the serial number on the side of the block. This in turn could easily condem a crankshaft,even low mileage with dirty oil, mainly because of the tolerances being so low.
Oil,pumps fail to for no apparent reason.I fit new pumps all the time despite their cost,at £260 plus.