Unfair cop for Wales Rally GB
Discussion
The following was reported in Motrrsports News as above. It stems from the heavy handed tactics of John Rowlings " S Wales Camera Partnership" on the 2002 event where speed cameras were drafted in from other areas including N Wales.
The International status event is seen as a big eraner for the area - The Welsh Development Agency injected UK Pds 50M for 2002/3/4 as a flagship for UK motorsport which itself brings £ 5.4 billion into the economy.
In 2002 Rowling's S Wales scameras netted £ 120,000 in fines harassing 2300 motorists with tallivan traps - some cleverly concealed.
Belgian Freddy Loix says " I think only the English people would have known what speed to drive down that road.”
With the usual chaos concerning speed limit marking in 30 limit areas most English or Welsh wouldn't have either.
Another own goal.
The International status event is seen as a big eraner for the area - The Welsh Development Agency injected UK Pds 50M for 2002/3/4 as a flagship for UK motorsport which itself brings £ 5.4 billion into the economy.
In 2002 Rowling's S Wales scameras netted £ 120,000 in fines harassing 2300 motorists with tallivan traps - some cleverly concealed.
Belgian Freddy Loix says " I think only the English people would have known what speed to drive down that road.”
With the usual chaos concerning speed limit marking in 30 limit areas most English or Welsh wouldn't have either.
Another own goal.
Whilst I have no sympathy for the use of scameras in connection with this event, I do feel that the teams were deficient in not issuing warnings to their drivers/co-drivers. The organisers might also have considered putting specific mentions (or even showing the speed limits) in the road-book - Streaky (ex-road/stage rally driver)
I'm sorry but in general our speed limits are actually quite well signed compared to other countries like France.
In France there is no actual speed limit signs on entering/exiting a town or village. You have to know what the limits are and when/where they change.
There are generally only 2 places were our limits aren't signed with repeaters. A 30mph limit and a motorway.
Edited to say: Not that I have any sympathy with the Welsh government or Police if they lose the rally to another part of the UK which is more welcoming. Maybe the North East where the have a much more sensible speed camera policy.
>> Edited by icamm on Friday 30th January 12:46
In France there is no actual speed limit signs on entering/exiting a town or village. You have to know what the limits are and when/where they change.
There are generally only 2 places were our limits aren't signed with repeaters. A 30mph limit and a motorway.
Edited to say: Not that I have any sympathy with the Welsh government or Police if they lose the rally to another part of the UK which is more welcoming. Maybe the North East where the have a much more sensible speed camera policy.
>> Edited by icamm on Friday 30th January 12:46
The real risk is that the UK will lose their World Championship Round completely. This will mean the end of the old RAC Rally and its decendants, which first ran in 1932 - a sad old day for British motorsport.
The Welsh Assembly and Welsh Development Agency will have a point of view about this, I'm sure, but the greed of the Scammers seems to know no bounds.
The FIA's point is that if the roads along which the event must travel between stages is so dangerous in respect of the terrain and other road users that it needs that level of enforcement, then it is not suitable for the needs of international rally competitors or spectators. One can only agree with this philosophy, false though we know it to be.
The Welsh Assembly and Welsh Development Agency will have a point of view about this, I'm sure, but the greed of the Scammers seems to know no bounds.
The FIA's point is that if the roads along which the event must travel between stages is so dangerous in respect of the terrain and other road users that it needs that level of enforcement, then it is not suitable for the needs of international rally competitors or spectators. One can only agree with this philosophy, false though we know it to be.
icamm said:
In France there is no actual speed limit signs on entering/exiting a town or village. You have to know what the limits are and when/where they change.
They use a different system to the UK, could argue which is better, but every village does have the start and end of the reduced speed limit signed.
Have you noticed how every village has its name on a sign and then another with a line through it?
Cooperman said:The old RAC Rally is long gone and greatly mourned (at least by me). It was the only true test of driver ability - no pace notes! How long, I wonder, before safety barriers are required alongside all stages (mind you, given the spectator antics in some foreign climes, that might not be a bad idea)? [rant_OFF]- Streaky
The real risk is that the UK will lose their World Championship Round completely. This will mean the end of the old RAC Rally and its decendants, which first ran in 1932 - a sad old day for British motorsport.
streaky said:
The real risk is that the UK will lose their World Championship Round completely. This will mean the end of the old RAC Rally and its decendants, which first ran in 1932 - a sad old day for British motorsport.
The old RAC Rally is long gone and greatly mourned (at least by me). It was the only true test of driver ability - no pace notes! How long, I wonder, before safety barriers are required alongside all stages (mind you, given the spectator antics in some foreign climes, that might not be a bad idea)? [rant_OFF]- Streaky
Streaky, with you on that one every yard of the way.
Today's events are for the playstation generation compared to back when men were men ......
Yes I know that today's WRC cars have similar acceleration on gravel that we used to get in a Gp4 BDG Escort on tarmac, and speeds are at times faster.
But anyone who doubts what I say get some of the old rally videos out or watch some of the old films appearing on Motor Sport Legends.
We really were on the limit, AND as Streaky says, without pace notes, without gravel/ice note crews, without a nights sleep, without all the sophisticated aids of today.
A 911 sideways on the Turini is still a touch dangerous, plus I would say more entertainment for the spectators.
FiF
Those WERE the days. Traipsing thru a Welsh forest at 3 in the morming to see and hear the cars coming thru the forest was awesome. Just the sound of a works escort coming thru a stage is enough to send shivers up my back even now.
I remember Graham Hill retiring his Mini on a hairpin in Grizedale forest one dark wet night. He got out of the car, slammed the door and said 'Bu**er.(And I don't mean butter either!) I was only about 8 at the time.
The closest you can get to the action is on tv these days.
Why dont they run the rally from Manchester?
Day 1 = Clocaenog
Day 2 = Grizedale etc
Day 3 = Yorkshire
That would give them something to sort out.
The only reason the rally is in S. Wales is because they paid the MSA money to host it to help the area's economy. So once again the motorist and National motorsport is subsidising the local economy instead of the other way round.
It gets my goat.
I remember Graham Hill retiring his Mini on a hairpin in Grizedale forest one dark wet night. He got out of the car, slammed the door and said 'Bu**er.(And I don't mean butter either!) I was only about 8 at the time.
The closest you can get to the action is on tv these days.
Why dont they run the rally from Manchester?
Day 1 = Clocaenog
Day 2 = Grizedale etc
Day 3 = Yorkshire
That would give them something to sort out.
The only reason the rally is in S. Wales is because they paid the MSA money to host it to help the area's economy. So once again the motorist and National motorsport is subsidising the local economy instead of the other way round.
It gets my goat.
Ah, "Gloggy"; "Grizzly Grizedale", Kielder and the other the Lakes stages - all twists and turns, rock walls and sheer drops (apparently there is nice scenery too); the Yorkshire forests - especially Dolby; the Scottish stages (in the older days). Takes me back! - S
>> Edited by streaky on Monday 2nd February 19:04
>> Edited by streaky on Monday 2nd February 19:04
icamm said:
Maybe the North East where the have a much more sensible speed camera policy.
I have to say, when the Network Q WRC cars used to drive up to kielder forest through my village (about 1996) 3 feet from my front door, they weren't hanging around!
all the villagers from miles around with reasonable cars would belt along the lanes playing with the foreign drivers who didn't know the road - chap up the road from me who had a tweaked subaru used to actually be faster than them on the wark - bellingham stretch!
god that used to be fun.........of course, it goes without saying that the cops used to leave us well alone while this was going on...hey ho
Now that used to be fun traveling between stages at quite a fast pace that is until one of the wrc cars passed you as though you were parked up. Used to get quite a shivver as I heard a works car coming up behind and then blatting past at an unbelievable pace. Always remember being passed by a works Legacy driven by Mcrae whos was being followed very closely by a chap in a road version. They were giving it big licks as to how hard old Colin was trying I'll never know.
bluepolarbear said:
icamm said:
In France there is no actual speed limit signs on entering/exiting a town or village. You have to know what the limits are and when/where they change.
They use a different system to the UK, could argue which is better, but every village does have the start and end of the reduced speed limit signed.
Have you noticed how every village has its name on a sign and then another with a line through it?
My point was that they use a different system which you have to know to understand what it means. Just like our system. Arguably the French system is slightly easier to understand but there is not much in it if you stop worrying about exactly how many yards your lamp posts are apart.
Hornet: We have the entering/leaving village/town signs here but in France the signs also mark the start and end of the "built up area" speed limit (50kph IIRC). Where as in the UK you would not necessarily have a change of speed limit so would get a speed limit sign if it does change.
>> Edited by icamm on Monday 2nd February 13:42
andygo said:andygo - I knew that. Careless cut-n-paste editing left "Grizzly" in the wrong place (
Grizedale is near lake windermere actually Streaky, but at least you can pronounce it, unlike some of the welsh stage names.
), now corrected - Streaky PS - BTW, it's just "Windermere", not Lake Windermere. "Mere" means "lake", so "Lake" is redundant. The old trick question is, "How many Lakes are there in the Lake District?" The answer is ONE. Now which one is it (alongside an RAC stage)? - S
streaky said:
The old trick question is, "How many Lakes are there in the Lake District?" The answer is ONE. Now which one is it (alongside an RAC stage)? - S
Bassenthwaite Lake and the stage is Wythop.
Having once been caught out by a surface change on one of the hairpins [1] resulting in sitting hanging over the edge like the final scene in Italian job this is not a stage I'll ever forget.
[1] OK OK for having been caught out etc please read suffered brain fade.
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