Please help me identify the year, car and driver

[davidd]

Morning,

My rather smashing wife bought me a canvas with the following picture on it..



I know it is monaco, I think it is a lotus and I suspect it is in the first half of the 60's..

Can someone please help?

The number looks like a 17.

Cheers

D

[Whalespin]

This website (http://www.whitewallimages.com/imagegalleries/sportandculture.html) would suggest its the 1965 race. Im afraid im not very good with old F1 cars, however, Wikipedia tells me that if its car 17 then it's Lorenzo Bandini for Ferrari. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_Monaco_Grand_Pri...

[Marc W]

As Above 1965, Bandini and its a Ferrari 512. He finished 2nd.

[AndrewW-G]

Given the stripe on the drivers helmet, I doubt it is Bandini, also when you take into account the lack of vents over the front upper wishbones, coupled with a lack of vissible carbs poking out of the side of the motor and what looks like a stripe running up the front of the car I'm not altogther convinced it's a Ferrari of any tipo.

The helmet design does look like that of John Surtees or Chris Amon, so it could be Amon trying to qualify in 1964 driving the Reg Parnell BRM engined lotus 25

pick of LB driving a Ferrari 512 at monaco in 65

Edited by AndrewW-G on Saturday 26th December 17:31

[SlipStream77]

AndrewW-G said:

...so it could be Amon trying to qualify in 1964 driving the Reg Parnell BRM engined lotus 25.

I think Andrew's got it right.

Do an image search on Bing.com for "lotus 25 monaco 1964 amon"

[dafeller]

1965, Richard Atwood in Reg Parnell's Lotus 25? Looks like the right car, markings and helmet. Not sure about the number.

[freedman]

http://www.simonlewis.com/ebay3/ph-Lotus-BRM-Attwo...

Attwood was No 15, looks like it could well be him

[Eric Mc]

It doesn't look like Amon's normal helmet colours. Amon had a red and blue twin stripe coming down the front.

However, I have found that Amon did have different colours on his earlier helmets - but he switched to his final choice of colours in 1964. So, thuis picture could be Amon in 1963.

From another site -

Chris Amon - Early on red with black and white chequered stripe, 1963 silver with a black stripe, then the definitive white with red (lhs) and blue (rhs) flashes to front

[timbob]

Didn't Amon's blue and red helmet stripes widen out on the forehead part of the helmet?

[Eric Mc]

That's what I was trying to describe. Although it does seem that he only adopted that scheme in 1964 or 1965.

[FourWheelDrift]

dafeller said:

1965, Richard Atwood in Reg Parnell's Lotus 25? Looks like the right car, markings and helmet. Not sure about the number.

I'd say you were right, they are no no 17's during the 1960s that match that helmet and that looks suspiciously like the Harrow School tie of Dickie Attwood in the no 15 Lotus at Monaco in 1965 in the wet (a year it was wet).

This is Dickie at the Nurburgring the same year (obviously running a different number as they did at different races), the colour scheme of the car although in B&W matches (dark bodywork with slightly lighter stripe down the middle of the nose, chrome high fitted wing mirrors of the Lotus. The Harrow school tie stripe on the helmet, add to that an extra black strap for the wet weather gear he had on at Monaco and you get a perfect match.

[DJC]

My initial look at the pic was Lotus, 64 or 65. No idea on the driver though. Ill have a chat with dad and get the definitive answer for you.

[davidd]

Morning detectives!

Thanks for the input so far. I have taken a better camera (well a camera not a phone)



It seems that the 17 might not be correct, it could be IT ? I wondered of there were support races or something (or the peope who put the nuber 17 on the car were utter rubbish).

D

[Eric Mc]

I've located this picture of Atwood at Monaco in 1965 in the Lotus BRM. As you can see, the helmet and weather matched your picture but the car is numbered 15. His team mate in the race was Mike Hailwood in car 16. I wonder is your picture of Atwood qualifying in the "T" car?

[Jungles]

I'm pretty sure it's 17. It's just the curvature of the bodywork making it look like a "T".

The circuit looks wet. Which Monaco Grand Prix was held in wet conditions during the 1960s? Only 1960, I think, but there was no #17 car then.

Another tack: drivers who drove #17 at Monaco from 1960 to 1967 are Maurice Trintignant (1963 Lola), Chris Amon (1964 Lotus), Lorenzo Bandini (1965 Ferrari), John Surtees (1966 Ferrari), Jo Siffert (1967 Cooper). There were no #17 cars in 1960-1962. The only "T" car was a 40T of Ricardo Rodriguez in 1962.

Edited by Jungles on Sunday 27th December 12:16

[Eric Mc]

Jungles said:

I'm pretty sure it's 17. It's just the curvature of the bodywork making it look like a "T".

The circuit looks wet. Which Monaco Grand Prix was held in wet conditions during the 1960s? Only 1960, I think, but there were no #17 cars then.

Another tack: drivers who drove #17 at Monaco from 1960 to 1967 are Maurice Trintignant (1963 Lola), Chris Amon (1964 Lotus), Lorenzo Bandini (1965 Ferrari), John Surtees (1966 Ferrari), Jo Siffert (1967 Cooper). There were no #17 cars in 1960-1962. The only "T" car was a 40T of Ricardo Rodriguez in 1962.

Edited by Jungles on Sunday 27th December 12:07

Look at the shape of the numerals on the SIDE of the car. That doesn't look like "17" to me.

[Jungles]

Eric Mc said:

Look at the shape of the numerals on the SIDE of the car. That doesn't look like "17" to me.

Well, it's not a "1T" or similar, since no such number existed. It must be something else.

Also, referring to the post about it being 1965 Monaco, the event was under dry conditions, so that is ruled out since the photo clearly shows it was wet.

[FourWheelDrift]

Jungles said:

Eric Mc said:

Look at the shape of the numerals on the SIDE of the car. That doesn't look like "17" to me.

Well, it's not a "1T" or similar, since no such number existed. It must be something else.

Also, referring to the post about it being 1965 Monaco, the event was under dry conditions, so that is ruled out since the photo clearly shows it was wet.

The race might have been dry but practice wasn't. - Video on here (if still available) showing BBC coverage of the wet practice - http://gplmz.bcsims.com/index.php?showtopic=4487&a...

And 1T did exist, it was used as the drivers main car was called the number 1 car and the spare was the 1T. T for training.

[Jungles]

FourWheelDrift said:

Jungles said:

Eric Mc said:

Look at the shape of the numerals on the SIDE of the car. That doesn't look like "17" to me.

Well, it's not a "1T" or similar, since no such number existed. It must be something else.

Also, referring to the post about it being 1965 Monaco, the event was under dry conditions, so that is ruled out since the photo clearly shows it was wet.

The race might have been dry but practice wasn't.

And 1T did exist, it was used as the drivers main car was called the number 1 car and the spare was the 1T. T for training.

It was dry during qualifying as well. But you're right, of course, it could have been wet during practice, and the sky was cloudy that year.

[FourWheelDrift]

1965 practice.