Advanced sl composite/carbon/ aluminium frames ?
Discussion
Of course the best framematerial is depending on your style of riding and your budget.
In short;
Titanium
Is a very strong metal that has the ability to flex. Be sure to buy a respected brand so that the flex of the material is engineered to comfort and the frame doesn't flex sideways at the bracked. Usually very light and very reliable.
Aluminium
One of the most base metals known to man but easy to work and fairly cheap. Thanks to years of engineering and developing good frames can be bought for low prices. Unfortunately not as flexible as titanium so your ride will feel a lot harder.
Carbon
You usually have the choice between 3k and 12k but this doesn't make a lot of difference in ridecomfort since most of the frames are made from extruded carbon. This material is very light and flexible when engineered right. If you're on a budget carbon isn't really relevant because good aluminium frames can be lighter for less money.
In short;
Titanium
Is a very strong metal that has the ability to flex. Be sure to buy a respected brand so that the flex of the material is engineered to comfort and the frame doesn't flex sideways at the bracked. Usually very light and very reliable.
Aluminium
One of the most base metals known to man but easy to work and fairly cheap. Thanks to years of engineering and developing good frames can be bought for low prices. Unfortunately not as flexible as titanium so your ride will feel a lot harder.
Carbon
You usually have the choice between 3k and 12k but this doesn't make a lot of difference in ridecomfort since most of the frames are made from extruded carbon. This material is very light and flexible when engineered right. If you're on a budget carbon isn't really relevant because good aluminium frames can be lighter for less money.
If I could add to this, I'm looking at getting my first MTB, can get good deals on scott, felt and Mondraker, am looking at a hardtail around £1500 ish (before discount)
I have the choice between a Scott Scale 40 (Aluminium) or the Felt SIX Elite (Carbon Fibre), but have also been looking at the Van Nicholas Zion of similar spec (If I can get access to it at my normal discount)
Difference in price comes to roughly £500, Al cheapest, then CF and then Ti.... (all with a Reba SL Fork and SLX groupset)
The alloy is bang on budget, but very racy geometry, yet everyone says Alu is quite harsh (this one is triple butted and majorly oversized) so mabye not the best?
The Carbon is a bit more cash, more relaxed, yet it weighs the same as the Alloy frame, perhaps it will give a better ride, but at the cost of fragility (I am a beginner, and will probably have a few mishaps).
The Ti is a simple frame, straight gauge tubing, yet gets great reviews, Similarly lightweight as the rest, but I'm thinking it would give the best for ride quality and durability, hence why i'm tempted.
The oddball is a Mondraker Scandium frame, yet I have been advised against these as they are not that strong in impacts.
What's the opinion, Is Carbon a bad idea for a beginner (the SIX frame looks quite durable), and is Ti worth the extra outlay?
I have the choice between a Scott Scale 40 (Aluminium) or the Felt SIX Elite (Carbon Fibre), but have also been looking at the Van Nicholas Zion of similar spec (If I can get access to it at my normal discount)
Difference in price comes to roughly £500, Al cheapest, then CF and then Ti.... (all with a Reba SL Fork and SLX groupset)
The alloy is bang on budget, but very racy geometry, yet everyone says Alu is quite harsh (this one is triple butted and majorly oversized) so mabye not the best?
The Carbon is a bit more cash, more relaxed, yet it weighs the same as the Alloy frame, perhaps it will give a better ride, but at the cost of fragility (I am a beginner, and will probably have a few mishaps).
The Ti is a simple frame, straight gauge tubing, yet gets great reviews, Similarly lightweight as the rest, but I'm thinking it would give the best for ride quality and durability, hence why i'm tempted.
The oddball is a Mondraker Scandium frame, yet I have been advised against these as they are not that strong in impacts.
What's the opinion, Is Carbon a bad idea for a beginner (the SIX frame looks quite durable), and is Ti worth the extra outlay?
Titanium could very well be worth the extra cost if you are serious about MTB. You can upgrade the bike over time and the frame never gets outdated.
I did the same with my first serious MTB. I bought a Cannondale F400 (nice frame with basic spec) and upgraded it over time when parts were worn-out or for sale. After some time you have configured the bike just the way you want and have some spareparts in stock.
I did the same with my first serious MTB. I bought a Cannondale F400 (nice frame with basic spec) and upgraded it over time when parts were worn-out or for sale. After some time you have configured the bike just the way you want and have some spareparts in stock.
Edited by Tomaz on Saturday 2nd January 15:00
If I bought the Ti frame it would most likely be built to my spec anyway
I buy the frame at retail (or at discout if I can sort something out), then the rest of the bits at trade + a little extra which would, if I have done my sums correctly bring me out at £1700 ish, £1k of which goes onto the C2W programme, on which I pay £650 and then reduces the total down to around £1350 total cost to me (wheras the Alloy would be £650 and the CF £800) so it's quite a bit more (working on getting a Ti frame at a lower price)
I always tend to go for something that will last, and the Ti is the obvious choice there. Yes it may cost a bit more now, but a good hardtail is always going to be worth having around.
One further question, would you couple a Ti frame with Titanium handlebar/stem/seatpost? Van Nicholas offer upgrades on all these, I can see the point of the seatpost mabye (take some shock away) but would have thought the handlebar and stem are better being highly stiff for control (I have budgeted for standard alloy here, would upgrade if and when required).
Of course building a bike from scratch does bring with it a lot of questions, Shimano or SRAM?, what groupset, what fork, what finishing kit .etc
I buy the frame at retail (or at discout if I can sort something out), then the rest of the bits at trade + a little extra which would, if I have done my sums correctly bring me out at £1700 ish, £1k of which goes onto the C2W programme, on which I pay £650 and then reduces the total down to around £1350 total cost to me (wheras the Alloy would be £650 and the CF £800) so it's quite a bit more (working on getting a Ti frame at a lower price)
I always tend to go for something that will last, and the Ti is the obvious choice there. Yes it may cost a bit more now, but a good hardtail is always going to be worth having around.
One further question, would you couple a Ti frame with Titanium handlebar/stem/seatpost? Van Nicholas offer upgrades on all these, I can see the point of the seatpost mabye (take some shock away) but would have thought the handlebar and stem are better being highly stiff for control (I have budgeted for standard alloy here, would upgrade if and when required).
Of course building a bike from scratch does bring with it a lot of questions, Shimano or SRAM?, what groupset, what fork, what finishing kit .etc
Edited by Matthew_Eames on Saturday 2nd January 15:20
Edited by Matthew_Eames on Saturday 2nd January 15:23
A well-engineered Ti seatpost is worth the price if you are looking for durable comfort. Just remember to get them greased with some ti-prep compound before you assemble because of the bond they get over time.
If you are looking at parts with a good price/quality/lightness I suggest to take a look at Ritchey WCS.
If you are looking at parts with a good price/quality/lightness I suggest to take a look at Ritchey WCS.
Leftys work surprisingly well, they have an octagonal stantion running on bearings (rather than bushes) which makes the fork as stiff, if not stiffer than regular forks. the wheel is no more likely to buckle either! Aparantly aircraft landing gear works on the same principle?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfDuAE8HdX4
watch the last bit around 2:40!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfDuAE8HdX4
watch the last bit around 2:40!
have to say i would opt for ti, i love the feel of metal frames and dont like aluminium hard tails as they are too harsh a ride and the disparity between a stiff rear end and the capability of modern suspension forks do not match up. there is a drive to make ultra rigid rea ends at the moment and this undoubtedly helps traction and power transfer but its just not for me.
as for ti, i think van nicholas frames are stunning, the attention to details and build quality are some of the best i have ever seen. the euro rate makes them really bad value at the moment in comparison to stuff from lynskey et al but i still think they are worth considering.
dont discount steel, seriously...... i would love to go on the Dave Yates frame building course where the master of metal will help you design and build your own frame to your spec and to your exact measurements. you get the bike of your dreams in lurvely reynolds 753 (which is still a beautiful material to make bicycles from!)
as for ti, i think van nicholas frames are stunning, the attention to details and build quality are some of the best i have ever seen. the euro rate makes them really bad value at the moment in comparison to stuff from lynskey et al but i still think they are worth considering.
dont discount steel, seriously...... i would love to go on the Dave Yates frame building course where the master of metal will help you design and build your own frame to your spec and to your exact measurements. you get the bike of your dreams in lurvely reynolds 753 (which is still a beautiful material to make bicycles from!)
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