Tyre choice for beginner
Discussion
Having recently got a ford cougar to use as a track toy, I am a little unsure as to what tyres to use. I intend to have two sets of wheels, one to drive the car to and from the track, and one set for use on the track.
The standard size tyre for the wheels are 215/50/16 which is an unusual size, so I was thinking about using 205/50/16 which are cheaper and have a far better choice. I have heard reports of using part worn tyres on a track as they wear better, but I dont want to run out of tread half way through the day. Am I better using a cheaper tyre that is harder, or a more expensive softer tyre? How long will a set of tyres last (VERY difficult question to awnser I know - but whats your experience?) half a day, three days ect.
Any help or general advice would be appreciated. Also, I presume they dont care if the tread is below the legal minimum as long as the tyre is in good condition eg. no chords exposed ect.
The standard size tyre for the wheels are 215/50/16 which is an unusual size, so I was thinking about using 205/50/16 which are cheaper and have a far better choice. I have heard reports of using part worn tyres on a track as they wear better, but I dont want to run out of tread half way through the day. Am I better using a cheaper tyre that is harder, or a more expensive softer tyre? How long will a set of tyres last (VERY difficult question to awnser I know - but whats your experience?) half a day, three days ect.
Any help or general advice would be appreciated. Also, I presume they dont care if the tread is below the legal minimum as long as the tyre is in good condition eg. no chords exposed ect.
I'd best just start by saying that I'm not convinced that you've picked a very good track car and you might want to reconsider that before spending too much money. A cougar is pretty much just a Mondeo with a different body IIRC and won't make the ideal car for trackdays - there's a lot of better options out there.
Having said that, you can have fun with almost any car on circuit so back to your question. If you go for part worn tyres you are going to struggle for finding the brand that you choose I would think so I'd say aim to buy new unless a set come up that are exactly the spec you settle on. You can go for part worn slicks etc but on your car with standard(ish) suspension, and novice driver, I think it would be the wrong way to go.
I'd suggest that if you want some track-specific tyres then Toyo 888s are usually a decent choice; they grip well in the dry, are reasonable in the wet and are generally fairly progressive when they do start to lose grip so they shouldn't catch you out too easily. They are also road legal so you can drive to the event on them if you choose to; there are no tyre checks done at trackdays so below legal tread is OK but obviously not if you are then driving home on them. Finally, they are one of the more reasonably priced tyres that are designed for track use.
Wear rates will vary and with a fairly heavy car like yours they will tend to be higher but if the basic setup and tracking etc is OK and you drive it properly (a big factor in tyre wear) then I would hope you'd get at least two days out of the fronts and four out of the rears.
Back to my original point though, I'd say flog the Ford and buy a MX5/106GTi etc and you'll have more fun and cheaper running costs...............
HTH
Steve H
Having said that, you can have fun with almost any car on circuit so back to your question. If you go for part worn tyres you are going to struggle for finding the brand that you choose I would think so I'd say aim to buy new unless a set come up that are exactly the spec you settle on. You can go for part worn slicks etc but on your car with standard(ish) suspension, and novice driver, I think it would be the wrong way to go.
I'd suggest that if you want some track-specific tyres then Toyo 888s are usually a decent choice; they grip well in the dry, are reasonable in the wet and are generally fairly progressive when they do start to lose grip so they shouldn't catch you out too easily. They are also road legal so you can drive to the event on them if you choose to; there are no tyre checks done at trackdays so below legal tread is OK but obviously not if you are then driving home on them. Finally, they are one of the more reasonably priced tyres that are designed for track use.
Wear rates will vary and with a fairly heavy car like yours they will tend to be higher but if the basic setup and tracking etc is OK and you drive it properly (a big factor in tyre wear) then I would hope you'd get at least two days out of the fronts and four out of the rears.
Back to my original point though, I'd say flog the Ford and buy a MX5/106GTi etc and you'll have more fun and cheaper running costs...............
HTH
Steve H
t11ner said:
I'd best just start by saying that I'm not convinced that you've picked a very good track car and you might want to reconsider that before spending too much money. A cougar is pretty much just a Mondeo with a different body IIRC and won't make the ideal car for trackdays - there's a lot of better options out there.
Having owned a Cougar as a road car I would tend to agree that I wouldn't expect too much from it on track. However, I guess Lurker's main reason for trying it out is that he got it for free...http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
t11ner said:
I'd best just start by saying that I'm not convinced that you've picked a very good track car and you might want to reconsider that before spending too much money. A cougar is pretty much just a Mondeo with a different body IIRC and won't make the ideal car for trackdays - there's a lot of better options out there.
Having said that, you can have fun with almost any car on circuit so back to your question. If you go for part worn tyres you are going to struggle for finding the brand that you choose I would think so I'd say aim to buy new unless a set come up that are exactly the spec you settle on. You can go for part worn slicks etc but on your car with standard(ish) suspension, and novice driver, I think it would be the wrong way to go.
I'd suggest that if you want some track-specific tyres then Toyo 888s are usually a decent choice; they grip well in the dry, are reasonable in the wet and are generally fairly progressive when they do start to lose grip so they shouldn't catch you out too easily. They are also road legal so you can drive to the event on them if you choose to; there are no tyre checks done at trackdays so below legal tread is OK but obviously not if you are then driving home on them. Finally, they are one of the more reasonably priced tyres that are designed for track use.
Wear rates will vary and with a fairly heavy car like yours they will tend to be higher but if the basic setup and tracking etc is OK and you drive it properly (a big factor in tyre wear) then I would hope you'd get at least two days out of the fronts and four out of the rears.
Back to my original point though, I'd say flog the Ford and buy a MX5/106GTi etc and you'll have more fun and cheaper running costs...............
HTH
Steve H
didnt want to say this myself but he's right 100% ! so to answer your question stick to cheap road tyres
Having said that, you can have fun with almost any car on circuit so back to your question. If you go for part worn tyres you are going to struggle for finding the brand that you choose I would think so I'd say aim to buy new unless a set come up that are exactly the spec you settle on. You can go for part worn slicks etc but on your car with standard(ish) suspension, and novice driver, I think it would be the wrong way to go.
I'd suggest that if you want some track-specific tyres then Toyo 888s are usually a decent choice; they grip well in the dry, are reasonable in the wet and are generally fairly progressive when they do start to lose grip so they shouldn't catch you out too easily. They are also road legal so you can drive to the event on them if you choose to; there are no tyre checks done at trackdays so below legal tread is OK but obviously not if you are then driving home on them. Finally, they are one of the more reasonably priced tyres that are designed for track use.
Wear rates will vary and with a fairly heavy car like yours they will tend to be higher but if the basic setup and tracking etc is OK and you drive it properly (a big factor in tyre wear) then I would hope you'd get at least two days out of the fronts and four out of the rears.
Back to my original point though, I'd say flog the Ford and buy a MX5/106GTi etc and you'll have more fun and cheaper running costs...............
HTH
Steve H
didnt want to say this myself but he's right 100% ! so to answer your question stick to cheap road tyres
t11ner said:
I'd best just start by saying that I'm not convinced that you've picked a very good track car and you might want to reconsider that before spending too much money. A cougar is pretty much just a Mondeo with a different body IIRC and won't make the ideal car for trackdays - there's a lot of better options out there.
My ute isn't the most ideal track car Burns loads of fuel, very heavy but it's FUN
and surprises a lot of people 
I use toyo 888's
boxsey said:
t11ner said:
I'd best just start by saying that I'm not convinced that you've picked a very good track car and you might want to reconsider that before spending too much money. A cougar is pretty much just a Mondeo with a different body IIRC and won't make the ideal car for trackdays - there's a lot of better options out there.
Having owned a Cougar as a road car I would tend to agree that I wouldn't expect too much from it on track. However, I guess Lurker's main reason for trying it out is that he got it for free...http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'm not trying to be competitive, just have some fun. For that I hope the cougar will fine, especialy when put on a diet!
R888 are about £175 a corner, which seems a bit much for what I'm after. I was thinking more some Eagle F1's or pirellies for a decent tyre, or some mid range stuff to start with which is about £60 a corner.
teabagger said:
Falken 452's are what you want. Good grip, cheap and wear relativly slowly on track.
I find eagle f1's to be a little soft in the compound department for a heavy car.
Stay away from 888's if you are new to trackdays, learn on a road tyre first.
Thanks. I guessed F1's might be too soft. I will have a look at the Falkens.I find eagle f1's to be a little soft in the compound department for a heavy car.
Stay away from 888's if you are new to trackdays, learn on a road tyre first.
TheLurker said:
R888 are about £175 a corner, which seems a bit much for what I'm after. I was thinking more some Eagle F1's or pirellies for a decent tyre, or some mid range stuff to start with which is about £60 a corner.
Holly crap, £700 for a set of tyres on a car thats, lets be honest, going to under-perform once you get it on track 
I didn't know that you got the car for free but all that means is that whatever you sell it for will be profit! Get rid and get something that is more fun and much cheaper to run on circuit and you'll have a better time and be quids in.
First rule of having a good trackday car is start with the right car, don't just mod whatever you've got ant try to turn it into something it isn't. This isn't to say that odd-ball cars can't be enjoyable on track but they aren't as much fun as something that's designed to do the job and they will cost a lot more to run
.Sorry if this sounds harsh but some novices look at the cost of a trackday as the entry fee but thats often only a fraction of the cost of the day, get something that is cheaper to run and you'll soon get back whatever it costs you to buy. You are obviously on the right track in looking at things like tyres but I think you could do to either run the car with whatever it's got on it now (zero added cost) or swap it before you start spending.
Stick to yourt normal road tyres until you're comfortable on track as there's no point using sticky(ier) rubber if you can't take advantage of it.
If it's damp/cold, I normally do a couple of laps on my road wheels & tyres to see what the grip levels are. If I feel it's too greasy then I'll stick to the road tyres instead until I feel the track conditions warrant the change to track tyres.
Even then I didn't use anything other than road tyres for a year before I decided it was worth buying another set of wheels.
If it's damp/cold, I normally do a couple of laps on my road wheels & tyres to see what the grip levels are. If I feel it's too greasy then I'll stick to the road tyres instead until I feel the track conditions warrant the change to track tyres.
Even then I didn't use anything other than road tyres for a year before I decided it was worth buying another set of wheels.
If it is JUST for trackdays - sell it on and get something track focused now before you spnk some well earned money realising youve made a mistake
OR
if it is for road and track - sell it on and get something better suited
either way stick to hard wearing road tyres as will be the cheapest way to track
i am sure youll ignore all this advice - whch is fair - but would be foolish of me not to warn you - enjoy
OR
if it is for road and track - sell it on and get something better suited
either way stick to hard wearing road tyres as will be the cheapest way to track
i am sure youll ignore all this advice - whch is fair - but would be foolish of me not to warn you - enjoy
Edited by shim on Sunday 3rd January 15:23
t11ner said:
First rule of having a good trackday car is start with the right car
Not sure I agree with that. I'd say the 1st rule of a trackday is to have the right attitude. Starting out he might as well use whatever car he's got to hand to see if he enjoys it. Then if he does spend cash on a better car.Thanks for all your advice. Whilst I agree it's not the best car for the track, its what I have and I'm sure I can have fun in it - which is all I wnat to do. I also dont feel it would be in keeping with the spirit which the car was given to me to sell it (if that makes sense?).
I shall stick to standard road tyres for now (and probably later). I was just after oppinions if it was better to go for a premium tyre or a budget type tyre, and how long they might last. From the information you have all given me it looks like my best bet is to get some mid range road tyres and use those.
It is not intended to be an all out track weapon, but a fun project to use when fancy takes me, and occasionaly use on a track to have some fun.
I shall stick to standard road tyres for now (and probably later). I was just after oppinions if it was better to go for a premium tyre or a budget type tyre, and how long they might last. From the information you have all given me it looks like my best bet is to get some mid range road tyres and use those.
It is not intended to be an all out track weapon, but a fun project to use when fancy takes me, and occasionaly use on a track to have some fun.
I use part worns and have done for years.. I usually pay £100 for 4 fitted and balanced (245/40/17) and always get very good makes.. using r888's or similar would be a complete waste of money as would brand new tyres if your just starting out..
In fact a lot of folk that use r888's don't drive hard enough to see any benefit...
In fact a lot of folk that use r888's don't drive hard enough to see any benefit...
One of the first cars I drove on track was a Mondeo ST220 (sharing much of the Cougar's architecture) and it was a complete hoot for a beginner. It's never going to be a hardcore track slag, though, whatever you do to it, so I wouldn't bother with anything exotic. Something mid range Kumhos or Falkens perhaps (cheap, but good enough to handle)?
Thanks very much. Just what I wanted to hear. Do part worn tyres wear more slowley than tyres with more tread on if that makes sense? I heard that a tyre with more tread on flexes more and so gets hotter. This leads to faster wear?
Also, if I start with new tyres front and back, I should get about two days from the front and four from the back? Just a bit worried about running out halfway through the day.
Also, if I start with new tyres front and back, I should get about two days from the front and four from the back? Just a bit worried about running out halfway through the day.
If you manage to kill a set at either end in one day then you need to look closely at your driving style 
, after that you'll get an idea of what your wear rates really are.
I'm not sure about the part worn question, there are aspects of putting heat cycles through new tyres to condition them but TBH on standard road tyres I would have my doubts that it will make a huge difference.
Steve H
, after that you'll get an idea of what your wear rates really are.I'm not sure about the part worn question, there are aspects of putting heat cycles through new tyres to condition them but TBH on standard road tyres I would have my doubts that it will make a huge difference.
Steve H
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