Discussion
There seems to be a swell of people on the net bashing the 7D for image noise. I just wondered whether any of the PH 7D owners see this manifested in real world or is it just a bunch of anoraks scrutinising every single pixel so they can have an opinion on how Canon have launched a marketing led turkey.
Cheers guys
Cheers guys
jon- said:
The only direct comparisons I've seen were being compared to the 5d MKII, which is a little unfair.
I've seen people on other forums say high ISO is way better than the 50d but others say it's roughly the same, so there's a lot of bad information floating about.
I just can't imagine Canon trying to launch a camera for the sake of marketing headlines to the well informed pro / expert marketplace if there is a danger of 'soft' images wrecking their credibility in the high end market. I've seen people on other forums say high ISO is way better than the 50d but others say it's roughly the same, so there's a lot of bad information floating about.
As you say, plenty of ill informed BS I would imagine. I just wish there was an authority on what is a very subjective issue that could provide honest benchmarking.
Edited by Ed on Monday 4th January 11:49
As someone who has had a 7D for a few days here's my comments
Noise wise , I'm comparing to a 350D here, way better, there is some of course, but with a little bit of noise sw it cleans up fairly nicely. I think the smaller pixels in each image make it more like a film grain than relatively obvious noise. The level of detail from the camera is way more than the 350d. Also I noted from some reviews that yes it has noise, but it's less obvious in terms of banding or patterns, so it doesn't distract the eye.
However I would add the following, you need good lenses, nice and sharp to get the best from this camera. Don't over sharpen the images in the camera, max setting of 3, and keep contrast/saturation at defaults, make any changes in post processing so you can correct the noise first.
Noise wise , I'm comparing to a 350D here, way better, there is some of course, but with a little bit of noise sw it cleans up fairly nicely. I think the smaller pixels in each image make it more like a film grain than relatively obvious noise. The level of detail from the camera is way more than the 350d. Also I noted from some reviews that yes it has noise, but it's less obvious in terms of banding or patterns, so it doesn't distract the eye.
However I would add the following, you need good lenses, nice and sharp to get the best from this camera. Don't over sharpen the images in the camera, max setting of 3, and keep contrast/saturation at defaults, make any changes in post processing so you can correct the noise first.
Ed said:
Cheers guys.
I'd mainly using an ef 70-200 f2.8 IS, so shouldn't be a problem with the quality of the glass.
Any view on which RAW converter?
DPP or Capture One right now, all the others aren't quite there yet on properly supporting the 7D, although I think Adobe have just released a beta fix for theirs.I'd mainly using an ef 70-200 f2.8 IS, so shouldn't be a problem with the quality of the glass.
Any view on which RAW converter?
Edited by Ed on Monday 4th January 14:19
Up until i got the 7D i was very wary of shooting over ISO 1000, and only went that high if i really had to.
I played around with ISO 2000 for the last 15 minutes or so of the Grizedale Stages rally last month and found it to be surprisingly usable. I'd happily use it again.
A lot of the drivel on the web is from people looking at full-resolution images at 100%. If you look at an 18mp file in that way, you'll see noise in most images shot in less than perfect conditions IMHO.
I played around with ISO 2000 for the last 15 minutes or so of the Grizedale Stages rally last month and found it to be surprisingly usable. I'd happily use it again.
A lot of the drivel on the web is from people looking at full-resolution images at 100%. If you look at an 18mp file in that way, you'll see noise in most images shot in less than perfect conditions IMHO.
Edited by MonkeyHanger on Monday 4th January 18:58
I think its somewhat jeckly/hyde camera.
High ISO noise is great, ISO 800 and up, looks good, and quite low level, easily over 2 stops better than my old 350D.
Low ISO noise? It has some, even ISO 100 doesnt get you a clean shot, and this is (IMO) purely down to the green channel. My body doesnt exibit the mazing artifacts some did earlier (or did via whatever raw convertor) but looking at an ISO 100 shot the pure blue and pure red areas (test card) are utterly clean where the green area isnt.
Not sure why or if theres a fix or what, but this does clean up fine and isnt a problem but it does mean, from raw, staight out of the camera, ISO 100-400 isnt as clean as you may expect.
High ISO noise is great, ISO 800 and up, looks good, and quite low level, easily over 2 stops better than my old 350D.
Low ISO noise? It has some, even ISO 100 doesnt get you a clean shot, and this is (IMO) purely down to the green channel. My body doesnt exibit the mazing artifacts some did earlier (or did via whatever raw convertor) but looking at an ISO 100 shot the pure blue and pure red areas (test card) are utterly clean where the green area isnt.
Not sure why or if theres a fix or what, but this does clean up fine and isnt a problem but it does mean, from raw, staight out of the camera, ISO 100-400 isnt as clean as you may expect.
MonkeyHanger said:
...
A lot of the drivel on the web is from people looking at full-resolution images at 100%. ...
Agree with this. Unrealistic "tests".A lot of the drivel on the web is from people looking at full-resolution images at 100%. ...
It's a great camera. Brilliant IQ, good useable ISO range, handling's very good (I never got on with the pro handling of the 1 series), great frame rate, really, really solid feature set (even the video you get out of it is very good!).
Would it have been "better" with less MP and/or a full frame sensor? Probably. But then it would have buggered up their whole range. And regardless, I still think you'd be pushed to find a better camera overall at the price point right now.
RobDickinson said:
Less pixels wouldnt have made much difference apart from prehaps a touch more dynamic range.
As I've said somewhere else, getting a shot that looks good at 100% on the 7D is tough.
why are you looking at it at 100%, that would be a huge picture... would you stare at a piece of art from a few inches?As I've said somewhere else, getting a shot that looks good at 100% on the 7D is tough.
Edited by SMB on Tuesday 5th January 13:23
14-7 said:
Although not necessarily 7d bashing here more of a lens bashing the 15-85 lens that you can order with the 7d seems to create quite a bit of vignetting on the four edges. Is it just my lens or do they all do this?
I don't know, but is the peripheral illumination correction enabled? It's in the first set of menu options. Also, do you have a UV filter fitted?...Pete
SMB said:
RobDickinson said:
Less pixels wouldnt have made much difference apart from prehaps a touch more dynamic range.
As I've said somewhere else, getting a shot that looks good at 100% on the 7D is tough.
why are you looking at it at 100%, that would be a huge picture... would you stare at a piece of art from a few inches?As I've said somewhere else, getting a shot that looks good at 100% on the 7D is tough.
I'm still downloading my first 'proper' shots with my 7D but I can't complain about what I've seen so far. The shot below was taken at 1600 ISO and is crop at 50% but only with minimal sharpening. Can't see any noise which would bother me. What I can say is that in the last week I've taken a number of shots which, due to the availability and usability of the high ISOs, I just wouldn't have got with my 20D.
I'll try to post more when I can.
I'll try to post more when I can.
I have only had mine for a few days too and have only shot a few indoor test shots so far really, but subjectively the noise at iso 6400 seems to me to be somewhere in the region of the noise at 800 on my 400d - despite having all of those extra pixels. I am entirely satisfied so far...
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