Getting rid of a wall?

[Mutt]

Hello all,

I live in a flat that, rather oddly, has a sort-of porch upon immediately entering. The door to our flat is on one side of a wall about 6' long, you open the door inwards and there is another wall infront of you with a door on the other side. It's about the width of a door in depth. I'd like to get rid of it as it serves little purpose other than making the hallway dark and cramped.

The flat is in a large converted church. There is a central staircase that services all the flats in the building and, presumably, provides the structural support necessary on which to 'hang' the flats. The problem is I'm not sure if the porch forms part of this structure or if the wall with the front door on does; or even if both are load-bearing.

This is a silly question. But in the Yellow Pages, who do I need to call to get a proper assessment of the walls and if we can knock the offending one through? A surveyor? A builder?

Sorry for the novice question, but it's easier to ask here than do a ring round of various trades people.

Thanks in advance for replies,
Cheers,
Chris

[Qcarchoo]

There is always a way when it comes to removing walls but it is obviously going to cost more if its structural. A good builder should be able to advise you but if you are serious about doing it then I would suggest a structural engineer. They will then present you with the relevant calculations to submit to your local building control before the work is carried out.

[robinhood21]

Removal might contravene fire regulations, so would have a word with your local planning office first.

[andye30m3]

robinhood21 said:

Removal might contravene fire regulations, so would have a word with your local planning office first.

Sounds like it could be a fire lobby. I'd speak to building control as they may make you re-istate it.

I'm not sure what the long term legal implications to you removing a fire lobby would be. The staircase may well be a means of escape and the lobby used to protect the staircase in the event of a fire in your flat in order to allow others to escape.

I'd do a bit of research before just taking it out

[Piglet]

andye30m3 said:

robinhood21 said:

Removal might contravene fire regulations, so would have a word with your local planning office first.

Sounds like it could be a fire lobby. I'd speak to building control as they may make you re-istate it.

I'm not sure what the long term legal implications to you removing a fire lobby would be. The staircase may well be a means of escape and the lobby used to protect the staircase in the event of a fire in your flat in order to allow others to escape.

I'd do a bit of research before just taking it out

Yes, my thoughts as well...sounds very much like a fire lobby.

[Qcarchoo]

Qcarchoo said:

There is always a way when it comes to removing walls

Perhaps not then.....

Although you could always do something in glass.

[Mutt]

Hmmm... The previous occupants have removed the internal door so at the moment it's a bit of a chocolate fire lobby.

[silverthorn2151]

How many floors in the building and which floor is your flat on?

That's the starting point to determine the means of escape issues. As it's a conversion I suspect it would be unlikley to be load bearing, but you can't be sure without checking.

For such a minor thing I wouldn't spend money on a surveyor just yet. We can check the single staircase requirements with a little more information from you, and then I would pack you off to talk to your local Building Control officer for a bit of free advice.

The fact that someone has removed the door doesn't mean there shouldn't be one.

[Mutt]

silverthorn2151 said:

How many floors in the building and which floor is your flat on?

It has four floors (ground, first, second, third in the eaves) and it's on the second.

silverthorn2151 said:

That's the starting point to determine the means of escape issues. As it's a conversion I suspect it would be unlikley to be load bearing, but you can't be sure without checking.

For such a minor thing I wouldn't spend money on a surveyor just yet. We can check the single staircase requirements with a little more information from you, and then I would pack you off to talk to your local Building Control officer for a bit of free advice.

That's the thing, I'm not sure if it's worth our while persuing.

silverthorn2151 said:

The fact that someone has removed the door doesn't mean there shouldn't be one.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that I thought that was the case. I hadn't considered the possibility of a fire lobby before so didn't think much of the absence of the door.

Thanks all for your help.

[silverthorn2151]

Refreshing myself with the Regs shows that you may be ok without a lobby. The lobby is intended to protect the stairase rather than you. However, that relies on other criteria being satisfied. If it's built with one, it probably needs one.

Nevertheless, sketch it out and go see the Building Control Officer at the Local Authority. There is no charge and you'll find them quite helpful.

[Mutt]

I called them. It's almost certainly a fire lobby.

It should have an internal fire door. Knocking it down and not telling anyone isn't an option as I have a responsibility to comply with the fire regs. That's to say that if there is some sort of fire safety inspection instigated by the freeholder then it would be highlighted then. Similarly, if there is a fire that originates in our flat and I've removed or not maintained the fire lobby there could well be insurance implications.

Thanks all for your help! My sledgehammer can rest easy.

ETA: especially silverthorn2151, most helpful. Thank you!

Edited by Mutt on Tuesday 5th January 14:54

[Simpo Two]

Mutt said:

I called them. It's almost certainly a fire lobby.

It should have an internal fire door.

I understand the need for protection from the stairs, but why can't a fire door keep a fire out? Why does it need a lobby as well?

[Busamav]

It is probably designed as a "smoke lobby "

You may find that the flats on the top floor do not have such a lobby .