Brake bleeding - Am i a sell out?
Discussion
Just fitted the Cossie upgrade to the chim - All went well
Changed brake fluid to Dot 5.1 and bled the brakes - All went well (or so i thought)
I ended up passing almost a litre of brake fluid as i wanted to be thorough, and there were deinately no bubbles coming out of the system by the time i was finished, but the pedal still doesnt feel right and is very spongy at the top of the travel.
What am i doing wrong? It all seemed to go smoothly and i was happy and confident doing it myself. Now ive booked the car into a garage for them to do it (and hopefully do it right)
Should i buy a better bleed kit and try again? Or should i just let the garage do it? (which is making me nervous on its own as i hate giving garages my car)
p.s the bleed kit i have at the moment is basically just a hose with a one way valve on it
Changed brake fluid to Dot 5.1 and bled the brakes - All went well (or so i thought)
I ended up passing almost a litre of brake fluid as i wanted to be thorough, and there were deinately no bubbles coming out of the system by the time i was finished, but the pedal still doesnt feel right and is very spongy at the top of the travel.
What am i doing wrong? It all seemed to go smoothly and i was happy and confident doing it myself. Now ive booked the car into a garage for them to do it (and hopefully do it right)
Should i buy a better bleed kit and try again? Or should i just let the garage do it? (which is making me nervous on its own as i hate giving garages my car)
p.s the bleed kit i have at the moment is basically just a hose with a one way valve on it
I use one that goes on the wheel valve with the bottle easy bleed, and find it good to do most of the job then just finish off with the G/F and shout on and off at her will i crack and open the nipple's 
(sorry)and it works fine. some times best to leave it over night and let it settle them a quick bleed and should be solid.
(sorry)and it works fine. some times best to leave it over night and let it settle them a quick bleed and should be solid.I did leave it overnight and try again but to no avail
But im getting fed up with keep having to jack it up and get the wheels off in the cold so i thought f
k it and just spend £35 to get someone else to do it. I think this is the first thing ive paid someone else to do on the car since ive had it
I just don't like admitting defeat
But im getting fed up with keep having to jack it up and get the wheels off in the cold so i thought f
k it and just spend £35 to get someone else to do it. I think this is the first thing ive paid someone else to do on the car since ive had it I just don't like admitting defeat
lewis s said:
I did leave it overnight and try again but to no avail
But im getting fed up with keep having to jack it up and get the wheels off in the cold so i thought fk it and just spend £35 to get someone else to do it. I think this is the first thing ive paid someone else to do on the car since ive had it
I just don't like admitting defeat
It makes job 100% harder the cold i know where you are coming from i went down to fit my leven pedals yesterday and done 2 then was beat back in to the warmth lolBut im getting fed up with keep having to jack it up and get the wheels off in the cold so i thought f
k it and just spend £35 to get someone else to do it. I think this is the first thing ive paid someone else to do on the car since ive had it I just don't like admitting defeat
Not sure where the bleed nipples are on the cossie calipers, but if they're not right at the very top of the caliper you might have some air trapped in there?
Release the bottom mounting bolt and swing the caliper up so the nipple is at the highest point, then bleed whilst making sure there's something suitable between the pads to avoid firing your piston out!!!
Giles
Release the bottom mounting bolt and swing the caliper up so the nipple is at the highest point, then bleed whilst making sure there's something suitable between the pads to avoid firing your piston out!!!
Giles
Did the same brake change (plus replaced the existing rubber hoses for Goodridge braided hoses and did the rear pads and discs too) and got the same issue myself - put best part of two litres of fluid through at the time of the change but when stationary still able to press the pedal down to what feels like a mechanical stop. Brakes do still work at the speeds I've been up to recently and I do feel they're still bedding in too (as everything was changed there's a lot to bed in and I can still see traces of the machining marks on the rear discs).
Plenty of suggestions on here that it's still air in the system (the info I have is that the master cylinder should not have any problems displacing enough fluid) so I'll get myself a new Gunsons Eezibleed and whack another couple of litres of fluid through it when I get chance (probably weekend after next).
Shouldn't the Chim already have had DOT5.1 in it though?
One thing I did find was that the Padgid pads I had wouldn't fit over the discs even with the front caliper pistons fully retracted so I had to go out and grab a couple of sets of Ferodo's...
Phil
Plenty of suggestions on here that it's still air in the system (the info I have is that the master cylinder should not have any problems displacing enough fluid) so I'll get myself a new Gunsons Eezibleed and whack another couple of litres of fluid through it when I get chance (probably weekend after next).
Shouldn't the Chim already have had DOT5.1 in it though?
One thing I did find was that the Padgid pads I had wouldn't fit over the discs even with the front caliper pistons fully retracted so I had to go out and grab a couple of sets of Ferodo's...
Phil
K4TRV said:
Sorry, stupid question I know as you said you "replaced" the fluid.
Have you bled the rear calipers ?? It is recommended to bleed longest distance from Master cylinder first, then next longest etc??
Trev
Yes i started off passenger side rear, then went driver rear, passenger front, driver front.Have you bled the rear calipers ?? It is recommended to bleed longest distance from Master cylinder first, then next longest etc??
Trev
Well it will be going in on Thursday and i will have no time to play with it until then so i will report back then
I just hope they don't start mucking me about if they can't do it either. So many reports ive read on dodgy garages have made me a cynic.
lewis s said:
Well it will be going in on Thursday and i will have no time to play with it until then so i will report back then
Please do - would be nice to know whether it is something that basic ...lewis s said:
I just hope they don't start mucking me about if they can't do it either. So many reports ive read on dodgy garages have made me a cynic.
Pfft! I'm just a cynic full stop - if global warming is so bad then why is it so cold? 
PHIL
Get an Eezibleed kit - it works off the spare wheel (for the air pressure).
Some says its crap but it has always worked well for me - make sure you reduce the pressure in the spare wheel as per the instructions otherwise you get brake fluid and expletives everywhere!
It is only about £18 quid for the kit, money well spent IMO (especially judging by how much fluid you are getting through
)
Some says its crap but it has always worked well for me - make sure you reduce the pressure in the spare wheel as per the instructions otherwise you get brake fluid and expletives everywhere!
It is only about £18 quid for the kit, money well spent IMO (especially judging by how much fluid you are getting through
)Barkychoc said:
Get an Eezibleed kit - it works off the spare wheel (for the air pressure).
Some says its crap but it has always worked well for me - make sure you reduce the pressure in the spare wheel as per the instructions otherwise you get brake fluid and expletives everywhere!
It is only about £18 quid for the kit, money well spent IMO (especially judging by how much fluid you are getting through)
Well i have a Halfords trade card so it was only about £3.50 a litre Some says its crap but it has always worked well for me - make sure you reduce the pressure in the spare wheel as per the instructions otherwise you get brake fluid and expletives everywhere!
It is only about £18 quid for the kit, money well spent IMO (especially judging by how much fluid you are getting through
)I will just get it sorted by the garage (hopefully) this time and i will get a decent eezibleed kit next time round when i change the fluid.
I replaced pads and hoses for braided, and replaced fluid with 5.1 as you did.
Bled the system thoroughly (twice) yet can still feel the mechanical stop on the brake pedal when stationary. Was a little concerned as didn’t notice it before the changes – but maybe wasn’t feeling for it?
I was wondering if I did something wrong, but seems to drive ok (like you, pedal is still a little spongy at the beginning of travel, even with the new hoses).
Makes me wonder if that’s just the way they are…or can anyone say otherwise?
Bled the system thoroughly (twice) yet can still feel the mechanical stop on the brake pedal when stationary. Was a little concerned as didn’t notice it before the changes – but maybe wasn’t feeling for it?
I was wondering if I did something wrong, but seems to drive ok (like you, pedal is still a little spongy at the beginning of travel, even with the new hoses).
Makes me wonder if that’s just the way they are…or can anyone say otherwise?
I had exactly the same problem.......(mechanical stop too)
Finished up at Neil Garner's who bled the master cylinder for me, there's a bleed nipple accessible via the clutch reservoir opening, bloody tight though. All sorted. Obviously I let the fluid get too low when bleeding.
Have since replaced the rear calipers using the Gunson eazi bleed, no problem, well worth the money.
Roy
Finished up at Neil Garner's who bled the master cylinder for me, there's a bleed nipple accessible via the clutch reservoir opening, bloody tight though. All sorted. Obviously I let the fluid get too low when bleeding.
Have since replaced the rear calipers using the Gunson eazi bleed, no problem, well worth the money.
Roy
Barkychoc said:
Get an Eezibleed kit - it works off the spare wheel (for the air pressure).
Some says its crap but it has always worked well for me - make sure you reduce the pressure in the spare wheel as per the instructions otherwise you get brake fluid and expletives everywhere!
It is only about £18 quid for the kit, money well spent IMO (especially judging by how much fluid you are getting through)
If you do get an Eezibleed then the one thing to be aware of is to take care of the seals on it - The one I used I couldn't initially get a good seal on the fresh fluid bottle as it has been fastened up previously and had distorted the seal - I ended up making a new seal using PTFE plumbers tape which worked fine.Some says its crap but it has always worked well for me - make sure you reduce the pressure in the spare wheel as per the instructions otherwise you get brake fluid and expletives everywhere!
It is only about £18 quid for the kit, money well spent IMO (especially judging by how much fluid you are getting through
)Not implying they're in any way fragile but just saying that - as with any tools - look after them and they'll be there for you when you need them.
Phil
There is a contraption on the market that "sucks" the fluid through rather than pushing with pressure.
I concocted a thing of my own using a small empty helium balloon gas canister and a piece of pipe. A vacuum was pulled in the tank (ok, not everyones got access to a vacuum pump) the pipe put on the bleed nipple and then just crack the valve on the cannister open and "voila" fluid is drawn through into the cannister (which will eventually one day fill up).
This helped me cure a problem with my S where I was struggling to clear an "air lock" in the balance valve fitted in the pipe to the rear brakes.
ETA try Frost Auto Restoration Techniques for the real thing !
I concocted a thing of my own using a small empty helium balloon gas canister and a piece of pipe. A vacuum was pulled in the tank (ok, not everyones got access to a vacuum pump) the pipe put on the bleed nipple and then just crack the valve on the cannister open and "voila" fluid is drawn through into the cannister (which will eventually one day fill up).
This helped me cure a problem with my S where I was struggling to clear an "air lock" in the balance valve fitted in the pipe to the rear brakes.
ETA try Frost Auto Restoration Techniques for the real thing !
Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 5th January 21:54
Teetertank said:
I replaced pads and hoses for braided, and replaced fluid with 5.1 as you did.
Bled the system thoroughly (twice) yet can still feel the mechanical stop on the brake pedal when stationary. Was a little concerned as didn’t notice it before the changes – but maybe wasn’t feeling for it?
I was wondering if I did something wrong, but seems to drive ok (like you, pedal is still a little spongy at the beginning of travel, even with the new hoses).
Makes me wonder if that’s just the way they are…or can anyone say otherwise?
Couldn't have put it better myself - exactly what I've got ...Bled the system thoroughly (twice) yet can still feel the mechanical stop on the brake pedal when stationary. Was a little concerned as didn’t notice it before the changes – but maybe wasn’t feeling for it?
I was wondering if I did something wrong, but seems to drive ok (like you, pedal is still a little spongy at the beginning of travel, even with the new hoses).
Makes me wonder if that’s just the way they are…or can anyone say otherwise?
Phil
Bassfiend said:
Teetertank said:
I replaced pads and hoses for braided, and replaced fluid with 5.1 as you did.
Bled the system thoroughly (twice) yet can still feel the mechanical stop on the brake pedal when stationary. Was a little concerned as didn’t notice it before the changes – but maybe wasn’t feeling for it?
I was wondering if I did something wrong, but seems to drive ok (like you, pedal is still a little spongy at the beginning of travel, even with the new hoses).
Makes me wonder if that’s just the way they are…or can anyone say otherwise?
Couldn't have put it better myself - exactly what I've got ...Bled the system thoroughly (twice) yet can still feel the mechanical stop on the brake pedal when stationary. Was a little concerned as didn’t notice it before the changes – but maybe wasn’t feeling for it?
I was wondering if I did something wrong, but seems to drive ok (like you, pedal is still a little spongy at the beginning of travel, even with the new hoses).
Makes me wonder if that’s just the way they are…or can anyone say otherwise?
Phil
Try gravity bleeding the system Lewis 2 calipers at a time e.g both front then both rear keeping a watch on the reservoir at all times(gravity as in cracking open the nipples and leaving the brake pedal alone)just let the fluid flow out of each caliper for a while and repeat,i have a Wurth vacuum brake bleeder at the shop but find from day to day gravity bleeding works just fine providing i am not pushed for time,in fact certain systems dont like vac or pressure bleeding some ABS systems and brake proportioning valves (not including the Chim/Griff)i mean its not like its not obvious if you have not removed all the air in the system,it could be worth a go i have fitted new master cylinders to many cars and apart from a quick hand prime with a filled res have bled the whole system using above method,when i changed to Goodridge hoses and fitted the Granny Cossy calipers on the Chim i did nothing more than stated i did not let the master run dry at any time though but did clean the resevoir the vac kit comes out if the above don't work which is very seldom do remember though that you will not always get a really hard pedal with short travel until the pads have bedded in made worse if you have renewed both ends 
the vac kit comes out if the above don't work which is very seldom do remember though that you will not always get a really hard pedal with short travel until the pads have bedded in made worse if you have renewed both ends Edited by Simon Says on Tuesday 5th January 22:18
turn the calipers upside down and bleed with the gunson i coupled mine to the compressor no problem the tvr calipers are used upside down as apposed to the ford installation there is an air trap this way thats what's giving you the soft pedal been through all this before when you try it and find it works you won't believe how quick it is
foxy ecosse
foxy ecosse
The brake master cylinder is almost horizontal. If you get air trapped inside and you're bleeding the system with the front raised, you'll end-up with air bubles stuck up there.
Bleed again your system but this time raise the back when dealing with the front. That way, any trapped air will find its way to the tank rather than staying in the cylinder.
Worked for me on the Elise, should work as well on a TVR.
Bleed again your system but this time raise the back when dealing with the front. That way, any trapped air will find its way to the tank rather than staying in the cylinder.
Worked for me on the Elise, should work as well on a TVR.
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