Time to renationalise some industries?

[HOGEPH]

I'm no socialist, in fact I usually put my politics to the right of Ghengis Khan, but isn't it time the government* took over supplying heat and power to the nation again. I can't help noticing that the cost of heating oil is rocketing during this cold snap, and I imagine gas will follow suite. Surely in a civilised country, everybody has the right to cheap heating and lighting?

• Not the current government obviously.

[ivanj]

If they did we would all freeze in the dark.

[glazbagun]

Public Transport for one- it works fine under a capitalist system inside a city, but the more sprawling the area, the more expensive to the point of prohibition it becomes.

[s2art]

HOGEPH said:

I'm no socialist, in fact I usually put my politics to the right of Ghengis Khan, but isn't it time the government* took over supplying heat and power to the nation again. I can't help noticing that the cost of heating oil is rocketing during this cold snap, and I imagine gas will follow suite. Surely in a civilised country, everybody has the right to cheap heating and lighting?

• Not the current government obviously.

Why would you want to pay even more for heat and power? This is the obvious consequence of nationalisation.
Of course the government could reduce taxes to make things more affordable.....OOPS, they cant do that because they spent all our money.

[thinfourth2]

You would like us to connect your new house to the electricity

Here is 28 tons of forms all different that must be filled in

Then we must look at your ethnic background

a few more stupid hoops to jump through and we should have it done by about 2027

Maybe

And here is your bill for 28 billion pounds, only payable in fish at your nearest processing station which we can't tell you where it is


Have a nice day

[claypigeon60]

s2art said:

Why would you want to pay even more for heat and power? This is the obvious consequence of nationalisation.

The annoying thing is, that if nationalised industries worked efficiently they would be more cost effective than private industry, since no-one would need to be making a profit.

I can't help thinking that with the number of people involved in, say, the rail network in this country, all of whom need to turn a profit, and the amount of bureaucracy it involves to keep them all playing together - just how inefficient would a new "BR" have to be to make them the worse option?

[Spiritual_Beggar]

Personally, I don't think any British party would have the feigntest idea how to run said industries efficiently.

[Zod]

The only time in my life when the power has been turned off frequently for hours at a time was when I was a young child and the utilities were state-owned, so no thank you.

[Dupont666]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

Personally, I don't think any British party would have the feigntest idea how to run said industries efficiently.

Is that cause they cant even do accountatncy and have managed to get the country in a mess in the first place?

[HOGEPH]

Zod said:

The only time in my life when the power has been turned off frequently for hours at a time was when I was a young child and the utilities were state-owned, so no thank you.

Wasn't that more a union thing?

[fadeaway]

claypigeon60 said:

s2art said:

Why would you want to pay even more for heat and power? This is the obvious consequence of nationalisation.

The annoying thing is, that if nationalised industries worked efficiently they would be more cost effective than private industry, since no-one would need to be making a profit.

Yes. Absolutely, bang on right. Unfortunately human nature and big state owned things being what they are it just doesn't work in practice. You need competition and the need to turn a profit to motivate people and to get things done efficiently.

claypigeon60 said:

I can't help thinking that with the number of people involved in, say, the rail network in this country, all of whom need to turn a profit, and the amount of bureaucracy it involves to keep them all playing together - just how inefficient would a new "BR" have to be to make them the worse option?

Very. And it would reach that level of inefficiency surprisingly quickly

[Dr Jekyll]

claypigeon60 said:

s2art said:

Why would you want to pay even more for heat and power? This is the obvious consequence of nationalisation.

The annoying thing is, that if nationalised industries worked efficiently they would be more cost effective than private industry, since no-one would need to be making a profit.

I can't help thinking that with the number of people involved in, say, the rail network in this country, all of whom need to turn a profit, and the amount of bureaucracy it involves to keep them all playing together - just how inefficient would a new "BR" have to be to make them the worse option?

Whoever puts the money up will want a return on their investment whether it's nationalised or not.

[groak]

HOGEPH said:

Zod said:

The only time in my life when the power has been turned off frequently for hours at a time was when I was a young child and the utilities were state-owned, so no thank you.

Wasn't that more a union thing?

No it was more likely a fun tory 3 day weeky sort of thing.

[Martial Arts Man]

thinfourth2 said:

You would like us to connect your new house to the electricity

Here is 28 tons of forms all different that must be filled in

Then we must look at your ethnic background

a few more stupid hoops to jump through and we should have it done by about 2027

Maybe

And here is your bill for 28 billion pounds, only payable in fish at your nearest processing station which we can't tell you where it is


Have a nice day

Just about sums it up!

Think of the most useless public-sector worker you have ever met (don't spend too much time on this despite the length of your list) and then imagine them in charge of power supplies...terrifying!

[Dr Jekyll]

groak said:

HOGEPH said:

Zod said:

The only time in my life when the power has been turned off frequently for hours at a time was when I was a young child and the utilities were state-owned, so no thank you.

Wasn't that more a union thing?

No it was more likely a fun tory 3 day weeky sort of thing.

The power cuts and the three day week were both responses to industrial action.

[groak]

Dr Jekyll said:

groak said:

HOGEPH said:

Zod said:

The only time in my life when the power has been turned off frequently for hours at a time was when I was a young child and the utilities were state-owned, so no thank you.

Wasn't that more a union thing?

No it was more likely a fun tory 3 day weeky sort of thing.

The power cuts and the three day week were both responses to industrial action.

Obviously diplomatic, well balanced and effective responses. Never mind, the better answer came later. There isn't any industrial action if there isn't any industry.

Hopefully Dynamic Dave will crush the evil financial services industry so we won't see any more reckless-banker inspired credit crunches again either.

[Dr Jekyll]

groak said:

Dr Jekyll said:

groak said:

HOGEPH said:

Zod said:

The only time in my life when the power has been turned off frequently for hours at a time was when I was a young child and the utilities were state-owned, so no thank you.

Wasn't that more a union thing?

No it was more likely a fun tory 3 day weeky sort of thing.

The power cuts and the three day week were both responses to industrial action.

Obviously diplomatic, well balanced and effective responses. Never mind, the better answer came later. There isn't any industrial action if there isn't any industry.

Hopefully Dynamic Dave will crush the evil financial services industry so we won't see any more reckless-banker inspired credit crunches again either.

How were they not 'well balanced'? If there isn't enough coal to generate as much electricity as you'd like, you have to generate less. What do you suggest?

[groak]

Dr Jekyll said:

groak said:

Dr Jekyll said:

groak said:

HOGEPH said:

Zod said:

The only time in my life when the power has been turned off frequently for hours at a time was when I was a young child and the utilities were state-owned, so no thank you.

Wasn't that more a union thing?

No it was more likely a fun tory 3 day weeky sort of thing.

The power cuts and the three day week were both responses to industrial action.

Obviously diplomatic, well balanced and effective responses. Never mind, the better answer came later. There isn't any industrial action if there isn't any industry.

Hopefully Dynamic Dave will crush the evil financial services industry so we won't see any more reckless-banker inspired credit crunches again either.

How were they not 'well balanced'? If there isn't enough coal to generate as much electricity as you'd like, you have to generate less. What do you suggest?

Are you saying that this was another period of effective tory governance?

Still, weird though he was, at least Heath had a semblance of a personality and hadn't yet verbalised his toryist hatred of society. That was left to Mad Thatcher, who as I recall Heath couldn't stand the sight of.

As to renationalising industries...yes, great idea, and if they're to return to being well run then forget about them being profitable. They'll certainly be a burden on the state, but oops, I forgot, better to avoid state control of industry (socialism) and have, for example, completely shyte yet privately operated utilities/transport etc etc systems than to have well oiled and proudly manned state controlled and profitless ones instead. Greed is good! The individual is king! Society doesn't exist! Survival of the fittest! (O fk, let's pray the billions and billions of the BRIC nations ignore Thatcherite morality and go socialist or we'll be the 3rd world before you can say "overtaken")

[Zod]

The unions love nationalised industries. They can hold the government to ransom with the threat of strikes.

And, groak presumably wants to return to the days of the two month waiting list for installation of a phone line.

[Dr Jekyll]

groak said:

Dr Jekyll said:

groak said:

Dr Jekyll said:

groak said:

HOGEPH said:

Zod said:

The only time in my life when the power has been turned off frequently for hours at a time was when I was a young child and the utilities were state-owned, so no thank you.

Wasn't that more a union thing?

No it was more likely a fun tory 3 day weeky sort of thing.

The power cuts and the three day week were both responses to industrial action.

Obviously diplomatic, well balanced and effective responses. Never mind, the better answer came later. There isn't any industrial action if there isn't any industry.

Hopefully Dynamic Dave will crush the evil financial services industry so we won't see any more reckless-banker inspired credit crunches again either.

How were they not 'well balanced'? If there isn't enough coal to generate as much electricity as you'd like, you have to generate less. What do you suggest?

Are you saying that this was another period of effective tory governance?

Still, weird though he was, at least Heath had a semblance of a personality and hadn't yet verbalised his toryist hatred of society. That was left to Mad Thatcher, who as I recall Heath couldn't stand the sight of.

As to renationalising industries...yes, great idea, and if they're to return to being well run then forget about them being profitable. They'll certainly be a burden on the state, but oops, I forgot, better to avoid state control of industry (socialism) and have, for example, completely shyte yet privately operated utilities/transport etc etc systems than to have well oiled and proudly manned state controlled and profitless ones instead. Greed is good! The individual is king! Society doesn't exist! Survival of the fittest! (O fk, let's pray the billions and billions of the BRIC nations ignore Thatcherite morality and go socialist or we'll be the 3rd world before you can say "overtaken")

No, I simply pointed out that the power cuts and three day week were the result of industrial action. In nationalised industries as a matter of fact.