Secret Life of Dogs - BBC2 now
Discussion
Very interesting prog, examining the relationship between humans and their dogs - can they understand our emotions, and vice versa?
Just said that scientists had previously thought that a dogs bark was purely random, and conveyed no emotion whatsoever.
Clearly, not dog owning scientists!
Worth watching if you are a dog owner.
Just said that scientists had previously thought that a dogs bark was purely random, and conveyed no emotion whatsoever.
Clearly, not dog owning scientists!
Worth watching if you are a dog owner.
Well, I thought it was bloody interesting, even if none of you lot did! 
The last section showed how gene research in Boxer dogs had enabled geneticists to isolate the gene that causes a particular type of heart disease in humans . Boxers are prone as a breed to the same disease, and the relative purity of a dog breed's DNA versus human DNA had enabled them to enable to identify the rogue DNA much faster (many years so) than if just humans had been studied.
By carrying out similar research into other disease that both dogs and humans suffer from, scientists expect that medical research will be greatly aided by mans best friend!
The last section showed how gene research in Boxer dogs had enabled geneticists to isolate the gene that causes a particular type of heart disease in humans . Boxers are prone as a breed to the same disease, and the relative purity of a dog breed's DNA versus human DNA had enabled them to enable to identify the rogue DNA much faster (many years so) than if just humans had been studied.
By carrying out similar research into other disease that both dogs and humans suffer from, scientists expect that medical research will be greatly aided by mans best friend!
Shame this had no science in it really. Another load of fluff dressed up as a documentary.
This ( and to be honest most ) Horizon was quite the most dubious, unscientific, wooly programe ive seen for a while. Here are some of the problems i have with it:
1. where dogs looks: unless you have studied where lots of animals look, this is just silly. Perhaps the left bias is due to how all brains develop. The fact that dogs are easy to test and most other animals would probably be untestable, worries me.
2. Humans undertanding dogs: No control as they were all different dogs, so the guard dog was identified as angry, the playing puppy was identified as having fun, etc. Not a valid experiment.
3. Comparing chimps and dogs / pointing: Dog raised in house, amongst humans, trained since birth to fetch, get off the sofa, etc. Chimp - well it lives in a cage surrounded by scientists. Plus the fact that the puppy couldnt understand pointing, proved it was learnt. Not a valid comparison.
4. Domesticating foxes: Looked like a business venture to me, not an experiment so no suprising that they looked cuter - hard to sell ugly domesticated foxes. Also the woman in charge said that the wild foxes were 'dragons' and the domesticated ones were the real foxes. WTF ???
Would also love to know who and how they selected a tame fox from a 'dragon' to breed further. By placing a hand on the cage to see if it barked ? An interesting project, but i doubt its scientificly valid.
I do agree that the fact that dogs are interbred to make them look nice, means that their genetic problems are easyer to spot and can help human research, is good news.
I'll stop there, but my most interesting discovery was that 90% of the researchers - regardless of where they were based, were northern european !
This ( and to be honest most ) Horizon was quite the most dubious, unscientific, wooly programe ive seen for a while. Here are some of the problems i have with it:
1. where dogs looks: unless you have studied where lots of animals look, this is just silly. Perhaps the left bias is due to how all brains develop. The fact that dogs are easy to test and most other animals would probably be untestable, worries me.
2. Humans undertanding dogs: No control as they were all different dogs, so the guard dog was identified as angry, the playing puppy was identified as having fun, etc. Not a valid experiment.
3. Comparing chimps and dogs / pointing: Dog raised in house, amongst humans, trained since birth to fetch, get off the sofa, etc. Chimp - well it lives in a cage surrounded by scientists. Plus the fact that the puppy couldnt understand pointing, proved it was learnt. Not a valid comparison.
4. Domesticating foxes: Looked like a business venture to me, not an experiment so no suprising that they looked cuter - hard to sell ugly domesticated foxes. Also the woman in charge said that the wild foxes were 'dragons' and the domesticated ones were the real foxes. WTF ???
Would also love to know who and how they selected a tame fox from a 'dragon' to breed further. By placing a hand on the cage to see if it barked ? An interesting project, but i doubt its scientificly valid.
I do agree that the fact that dogs are interbred to make them look nice, means that their genetic problems are easyer to spot and can help human research, is good news.
I'll stop there, but my most interesting discovery was that 90% of the researchers - regardless of where they were based, were northern european !
Rollcage said:
Very interesting prog, examining the relationship between humans and their dogs - can they understand our emotions, and vice versa?
Just said that scientists had previously thought that a dogs bark was purely random, and conveyed no emotion whatsoever.
Clearly, not dog owning scientists!
Worth watching if you are a dog owner.
I expect scientists held that view so they could 'moraly' do animal testing on them.Just said that scientists had previously thought that a dogs bark was purely random, and conveyed no emotion whatsoever.
Clearly, not dog owning scientists!
Worth watching if you are a dog owner.
I guess that the fact that dogs are the most domesticated wild animal does make them more easy to get along with ,and thus understand us, than any other animal.
There is plenty of evidence that many other animals show signs of some incredible intelligence. I cant remember the exact nature of it, but there was a clip showing a chimp that could instantly memorise a sequence that was flashed before it so quickly that humans could barely recognise it, but the chimp could remember and replay the sequence correctly every time.
The fact that dogs are so domesticated just makes it easier and more acceptable for scientists to work with them.
The stuff some dogs are able to do, like seizure dogs etc, is incredible, and surely worth the research. Of course many animals may also be able to perform such feats, but the relationship between dogs and humans makes it much easier to study dogs!
ETA found a link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVlJv7ZkvGA
Pretty impressive that the chimp could memorise the 1-10 sequence, let alone anything else!
There is plenty of evidence that many other animals show signs of some incredible intelligence. I cant remember the exact nature of it, but there was a clip showing a chimp that could instantly memorise a sequence that was flashed before it so quickly that humans could barely recognise it, but the chimp could remember and replay the sequence correctly every time.
The fact that dogs are so domesticated just makes it easier and more acceptable for scientists to work with them.
The stuff some dogs are able to do, like seizure dogs etc, is incredible, and surely worth the research. Of course many animals may also be able to perform such feats, but the relationship between dogs and humans makes it much easier to study dogs!
ETA found a link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVlJv7ZkvGA
Pretty impressive that the chimp could memorise the 1-10 sequence, let alone anything else!
Wildsea said:
I take it for granted that my dogs look where I point. I really didn't kie the conditions the foxes were kept in though
Wish my Whippet dog would, he is hopeless, he just stares at the pointed finger. My old collie was able to look in the direction I was pointing, she was very good with hand signals. Thats collies for you though too bright for their own good (or too keen too please) Edited by Wildsea on Thursday 7th January 14:19
becksW said:
Wildsea said:
I take it for granted that my dogs look where I point. I really didn't kie the conditions the foxes were kept in though
Wish my Whippet dog would, he is hopeless, he just stares at the pointed finger. My old collie was able to look in the direction I was pointing, she was very good with hand signals. Thats collies for you though too bright for their own good (or too keen too please) Edited by Wildsea on Thursday 7th January 14:19
Super dog, and they wont get anything else, but its hard work getting them to make the jump.
I keep sending them info of dogs for sale, but dad won't pay much - certainly not in the £100's! Rescue centres it is!
Rollcage said:
becksW said:
Wildsea said:
I take it for granted that my dogs look where I point. I really didn't kie the conditions the foxes were kept in though
Wish my Whippet dog would, he is hopeless, he just stares at the pointed finger. My old collie was able to look in the direction I was pointing, she was very good with hand signals. Thats collies for you though too bright for their own good (or too keen too please) Edited by Wildsea on Thursday 7th January 14:19
Super dog, and they wont get anything else, but its hard work getting them to make the jump.
I keep sending them info of dogs for sale, but dad won't pay much - certainly not in the £100's! Rescue centres it is!
Have to say having our whippet has made me realise there are much easier breeds to own, different character, very loving, easy going and calmer (with mad moments thrown in) Haven't been able to teach him some of the tricks our collie was so good at but you can't have it all
Missed this show. Damn.
But then most of the shows I've watched like this tend to say " a dog can't do X,Y or Z " and I am thinking, well, one of mine can........
There is an amusing little thing you can buy which "tests" the intelligence of your dog, how long it takes it to find food etc.. but what they don't tell you is how you work the test with a dog who doesn't care about food.......
But then most of the shows I've watched like this tend to say " a dog can't do X,Y or Z " and I am thinking, well, one of mine can........
There is an amusing little thing you can buy which "tests" the intelligence of your dog, how long it takes it to find food etc.. but what they don't tell you is how you work the test with a dog who doesn't care about food.......
Jasandjules said:
There is an amusing little thing you can buy which "tests" the intelligence of your dog, how long it takes it to find food etc.. but what they don't tell you is how you work the test with a dog who doesn't care about food.......
surely no such thing exists. my dog would eat anything from his own poo to a perfectly useable Nokia 3210. and even his muzzle left on the side, so taht he wouldn't have to wear it again and be prevented from eating things.Charlie Foxtrot said:
surely no such thing exists. my dog would eat anything from his own poo to a perfectly useable Nokia 3210. and even his muzzle left on the side, so taht he wouldn't have to wear it again and be prevented from eating things.
It certainly is unusual, we have two other dogs who will sit and stare at him whilst he ignores his food bowl - they have a face which says "WTF is your problem", then they look at us with a "well, if he doesn't want it, I'll clear it up" face... For a month or two he wouldn't eat at all unless he was hand fed and even now he will/can go a day or two where he refuses to eat. He's just diet conscious.... Jasandjules said:
Charlie Foxtrot said:
surely no such thing exists. my dog would eat anything from his own poo to a perfectly useable Nokia 3210. and even his muzzle left on the side, so taht he wouldn't have to wear it again and be prevented from eating things.
It certainly is unusual, we have two other dogs who will sit and stare at him whilst he ignores his food bowl - they have a face which says "WTF is your problem", then they look at us with a "well, if he doesn't want it, I'll clear it up" face... For a month or two he wouldn't eat at all unless he was hand fed and even now he will/can go a day or two where he refuses to eat. He's just diet conscious.... Gassing Station | TV, Film, Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff