Laser through windscreen??
Discussion
Not entirely sure if this has been previously covered but... are the laser traps allowed to be operated through a windscreen??
I was driving my tiger (
)around rutland water at an interesting pace, slowing for the villages (already pre-warned about the possibility of the plod), I entered one of the villages and slowed to 30 +/- 2 ish, on the opposite side of the road, parked up was a marked volvo with the driver pointing the laser trap through the windscreen. I don't believe I'd have been snaffled by this but just wandered if this was accepted?
cheers
Gav
I was driving my tiger (
)around rutland water at an interesting pace, slowing for the villages (already pre-warned about the possibility of the plod), I entered one of the villages and slowed to 30 +/- 2 ish, on the opposite side of the road, parked up was a marked volvo with the driver pointing the laser trap through the windscreen. I don't believe I'd have been snaffled by this but just wandered if this was accepted? cheers
Gav
It depends on the type of Laser gun used. LTI20-20’s are not supposed to be used through glass (years ago there was something about this on the manufacturer’s website but I think the site changed now). Some others can be fired through glass.
Realistically I doubt the scammers care about operating the guns correctly as long as they keep making money. They know that very, very few people will contest it if caught.
Realistically I doubt the scammers care about operating the guns correctly as long as they keep making money. They know that very, very few people will contest it if caught.
Due to Snell's Law (my surname 
) - I believe the laser will refract...
How much is anyone's guess!!!
www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/refrn/u14l2b.html
) - I believe the laser will refract... How much is anyone's guess!!!
www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/refrn/u14l2b.html
tigers6 said:
Not entirely sure if this has been previously covered but... are the laser traps allowed to be operated through a windscreen??
I was driving my tiger (
cheers
Gav
This would be against ACPO guidelines on the use of speed trap equipment. They state that when using radar, operators must be clear of their own vehicle and in full view of the public and of the target vehicle. Laser has different rules but see below.
Yes, I know they are only guidelines but why would ACPO go to the trouble of listing them if they expected them to be ignored?
Below is copied from ACPO guidelines
32.7 ACPO guidelines prohibit the use of handheld radar speed detection equipment for enforcement purposes from within a vehicle. Laser/Optical hand held devices may be used from within a vehicle but the beam will not be projected through glass or mirrors. The power source however can be taken directly from the vehicle or from an independent supply.
>> Edited by Tafia on Monday 2nd February 12:14
jwo said:
I tried all the arguments on them and it was going to be see you court!!
Knew I was breaking speed limit and paid up! Thought it was most unfair that they have now changed their operating policy (because they knew it was sh$t)!
But if ACPO say laser does not work through glass ?????????? "The beam will not be projected through glass or mirrors"
So no reading is possible, according to ACPO.
Perhaps you had a rogue cop who was making up the numbers whilst keeping himself warm and comfortable in his car. After all, we don't see the reading do we and all cops are honest aren't they and they don't have targets do they?
Full list of the ACPO guidelines here: Why not download and save them into Word in case they are removed.
www.pepipoo.com/files/ACPO/ACPO_full.htm
Tafia said:
Full list of the ACPO guidelines here: Why not download and save them into Word in case they are removed.
www.pepipoo.com/files/ACPO/ACPO_full.htm
Will make excellent bedtime reading thanks...
next time I'm not being a hooligan on the back roads and I see this again, I ought to just question the guy... there's no harm in that is there?!
Unofrtunately these are just guidelines. The civilian scamera/tax people are just there to get money any way they can!!
I had seen the van, dismissed it as not being able to from the front and backed off when level with it so at speedlimit when driving away from it.
If anyone knows anyone who can use this story as publicity let me know, I have all the associated paperwork and bollox excuses they used, and my driving licence with 3pts on it!
I had seen the van, dismissed it as not being able to from the front and backed off when level with it so at speedlimit when driving away from it.
If anyone knows anyone who can use this story as publicity let me know, I have all the associated paperwork and bollox excuses they used, and my driving licence with 3pts on it!
jwo said:
Unofrtunately these are just guidelines. The civilian scamera/tax people are just there to get money any way they can!!
I had seen the van, dismissed it as not being able to from the front and backed off when level with it so at speedlimit when driving away from it.
If anyone knows anyone who can use this story as publicity let me know, I have all the associated paperwork and bollox excuses they used, and my driving licence with 3pts on it!
True, they are said to be guidance notes but if we read the first two paragraphs and note the use of the word "prohibited" elsewhere, they surely carry weight.
If the head of a company says this or that practice is prohibited, does it really only mean, "We'd prefer you didn't do it"? First two paras. here:
The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 requires the type approval of radar speed meters and the Road Traffic Act 1991 expands that provision to allow for the type approval of other devices used for the enforcement of road traffic law. While type approval provides an assurance of the technical accuracy and reliability of a device, devices do need to be properly used.
It is considered that the 'reliance on manufacturers instructions alone is not sufficient and that operational standards need to be laid down by the police in consultation with the Police Scientific Development Branch (PSDB).
Consequently the ACPO Standing Sub Committee on Road Traffic Enforcement Technology, under the auspices of the ACPO Traffic Committee, was given the task of preparing this document. In this respect officers with specialist knowledge of individual devices were drawn from various forces. The content of the document has been accepted by ACPO as to the operational standards and to be read in conjunction with manufacturers instructions.
Tafia said:
The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 requires the type approval of radar speed meters and the Road Traffic Act 1991 expands that provision to allow for the type approval of other devices used for the enforcement of road traffic law. While type approval provides an assurance of the technical accuracy and reliability of a device, devices do need to be properly used.
It is considered that the 'reliance on manufacturers instructions alone is not sufficient and that operational standards need to be laid down by the police in consultation with the Police Scientific Development Branch (PSDB).
Consequently the ACPO Standing Sub Committee on Road Traffic Enforcement Technology, under the auspices of the ACPO Traffic Committee, was given the task of preparing this document. In this respect officers with specialist knowledge of individual devices were drawn from various forces. The content of the document has been accepted by ACPO as to the operational standards and to be read in conjunction with manufacturers instructions.
Damn Tafia, should I ever require legal assistance on this matter, would you provide it!!!
it sounds good anyway!
Just to mention, I'm not expecting the aforementioned required assistance!!
Tafia, you quote all this info. But in this real life example it equates to sod all. The scamera partnership admitted in black and white that they operated the laser through a windscreen and that it was okay to do so. However, they had subsequently stopped doing it.
I know people who have been banned as a result of this set up.
I used every play possible to get off. I didn't work!
I know people who have been banned as a result of this set up.
I used every play possible to get off. I didn't work!
jwo said:
Tafia, you quote all this info. But in this real life example it equates to sod all. The scamera partnership admitted in black and white that they operated the laser through a windscreen and that it was okay to do so. However, they had subsequently stopped doing it.
I know people who have been banned as a result of this set up.
I used every play possible to get off. I didn't work!
All I can do is repeat that the ACPO say that speed measuring lasers will not be projected through glass or mirrors and the only people who tell us the ACPO guidance can be ignored are those trying to secure a conviction.
Courts often get it wrong which is why we have appeal courts and police use bluff and bluster. How many cases have been dropped in the the last few minutes before they were due to start? PePiPoo?
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