Tow cars, trailers weights and whats allowed?
Discussion
I'm at the point now where I want to buy a new car to tow my track car and trailer.
The track car is an MX5 and I want to keep it on the trailer in the garage, Brian James minnomax looks just the job, dimensions to fit in a standard garage etc. It states Gross Capacity 1600kg and Load capacity 1200kg,... now does this mean I can put a car upto 1200kg on the trailer or 1600kg? Its kind of irrelevant as no car heavier than 1000kg would ever grace, it but I don't understand the difference? Is the word capacity badly used and its a maximum gross weight totalling 1600kg so trailer & load.. I can't imagine a trailer weighs 400kg??
Then comes the car, looking on caravan sites I'm confused, they say you can tow whatever the cars vin states it can, usually 100% or fractionally greater than its kerb weight. So this makes me think an Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Avant would be fine Kerb weigth 1530kg. As no way and MX5+ trailer would be more than that. Is that the general gist of things, you can tow as much as the car weighs?
The track car is an MX5 and I want to keep it on the trailer in the garage, Brian James minnomax looks just the job, dimensions to fit in a standard garage etc. It states Gross Capacity 1600kg and Load capacity 1200kg,... now does this mean I can put a car upto 1200kg on the trailer or 1600kg? Its kind of irrelevant as no car heavier than 1000kg would ever grace, it but I don't understand the difference? Is the word capacity badly used and its a maximum gross weight totalling 1600kg so trailer & load.. I can't imagine a trailer weighs 400kg??
Then comes the car, looking on caravan sites I'm confused, they say you can tow whatever the cars vin states it can, usually 100% or fractionally greater than its kerb weight. So this makes me think an Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Avant would be fine Kerb weigth 1530kg. As no way and MX5+ trailer would be more than that. Is that the general gist of things, you can tow as much as the car weighs?
1600kg gross weight is the trailer and load combined.
1200kg is the max weight your trailer can carry, so it does seem the trailer weights 400kgs. (sounds like it is a twin axle trailer for a start).
If you obtained your licence after 1st January 1997 there are limits to the weight of you tow car, trailer and trailer load (Gross train weight).
Also make sure your tow car is capable of towing the combined weight of your trailer and load.
1200kg is the max weight your trailer can carry, so it does seem the trailer weights 400kgs. (sounds like it is a twin axle trailer for a start).
If you obtained your licence after 1st January 1997 there are limits to the weight of you tow car, trailer and trailer load (Gross train weight).
Also make sure your tow car is capable of towing the combined weight of your trailer and load.
A MinnoMax is what is in my garage, great trailer. I didn't even bother looking at gross weight etc as I only put a Westfield on there and thats not going to exceed the limit. However I think the trailer does weight about 400kg though, they are very heavy.
You are right, you can tow (so long as you have the necessary license, or passed your test on the right date therefore not needing a license...after 1997 I believe) so long as the vehicle (on the trailer) weight and trailer weight does not weigh more than the towing car and not more than a total of 3,500kg. You need a license for any more.
What amazed me was that although Brian James make great trailers, the guy who I dealt with was not aware of the rules and told me that without a license I couldn't tow it home legally. I said i'll risk it, knowing full well I could take it legally.
You are right, you can tow (so long as you have the necessary license, or passed your test on the right date therefore not needing a license...after 1997 I believe) so long as the vehicle (on the trailer) weight and trailer weight does not weigh more than the towing car and not more than a total of 3,500kg. You need a license for any more.
What amazed me was that although Brian James make great trailers, the guy who I dealt with was not aware of the rules and told me that without a license I couldn't tow it home legally. I said i'll risk it, knowing full well I could take it legally.
My license was obtained in 1994, its got a picture of car and trailer on it cat BE.
The total train weight of 3500kg I've not read mention of but that should be fine,. a 1500 ish kg tow car + 400kg trailer + 980kg MX5 so well within limits.
Basically I'm going to be going out and buying a trailer and suitable car to tow it in the next 3 or 4 weeks so want to get it all right
I was thinking i'd need something like an A6 but an A4 maybe better as its just scaled down a bit, train weight less and car tow limit still has headroom of a couple of hundred kg.
I'm amazed the minno-max weighs 400kg just seems so much for something without and engine.
This maybe a silly questions but i assume its a "braked" trailer, i've never towed anything before and know little / nothing of how they work.
When its got a stated gross weight of 1600kg I assume the police / powers that be don't just go your car needs a towing capacity greatter than 1600kg even if your load means its not actually up at 1600kg?
The total train weight of 3500kg I've not read mention of but that should be fine,. a 1500 ish kg tow car + 400kg trailer + 980kg MX5 so well within limits.
Basically I'm going to be going out and buying a trailer and suitable car to tow it in the next 3 or 4 weeks so want to get it all right
I was thinking i'd need something like an A6 but an A4 maybe better as its just scaled down a bit, train weight less and car tow limit still has headroom of a couple of hundred kg.I'm amazed the minno-max weighs 400kg just seems so much for something without and engine.
This maybe a silly questions but i assume its a "braked" trailer, i've never towed anything before and know little / nothing of how they work.
When its got a stated gross weight of 1600kg I assume the police / powers that be don't just go your car needs a towing capacity greatter than 1600kg even if your load means its not actually up at 1600kg?
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Tuesday 12th January 09:16
Herman Toothrot said:
My license was obtained in 1994, its got a picture of car and trailer on it cat BE.
The total train weight of 3500kg I've not read mention of but that should be fine,. a 1500 ish kg tow car + 400kg trailer + 980kg MX5 so well within limits.
Basically I'm going to be going out and buying a trailer and suitable car to tow it in the next 3 or 4 weeks so want to get it all right I was thinking i'd need something like an A6 but an A4 maybe better as its just scaled down a bit, train weight less and car tow limit still has headroom of a couple of hundred kg.
I'm amazed the minno-max weighs 400kg just seems so much for something without and engine.
This maybe a silly questions but i assume its a "braked" trailer, i've never towed anything before and know little / nothing of how they work.
When its got a stated gross weight of 1600kg I assume the police / powers that be don't just go your car needs a towing capacity greatter than 1600kg even if your load means its not actually up at 1600kg?
Yes it will have over run brakes.The total train weight of 3500kg I've not read mention of but that should be fine,. a 1500 ish kg tow car + 400kg trailer + 980kg MX5 so well within limits.
Basically I'm going to be going out and buying a trailer and suitable car to tow it in the next 3 or 4 weeks so want to get it all right
I was thinking i'd need something like an A6 but an A4 maybe better as its just scaled down a bit, train weight less and car tow limit still has headroom of a couple of hundred kg.I'm amazed the minno-max weighs 400kg just seems so much for something without and engine.
This maybe a silly questions but i assume its a "braked" trailer, i've never towed anything before and know little / nothing of how they work.
When its got a stated gross weight of 1600kg I assume the police / powers that be don't just go your car needs a towing capacity greatter than 1600kg even if your load means its not actually up at 1600kg?
What you can often get done on is the rear axle weights of the car. Can be fine on the gross train weights but get clobbered on that, is not that high on most regular cars, think fuel, spare wheels etc etc. not so bad solo but with passengers & stuff etc is closer the limit.
A4 tdi estate is used by a pal on mine for his 1100kg racer & BJ trailer & he gets on fine with it.
ps 400 kg is very light for a twin axle trailer, my bigger brian james jobbies are nearer 900kg ish.
Edited by iguana on Tuesday 12th January 18:01
Just as a matter of minor interest if you are ordering a new trailer and the gross weight exceeds the allowable limit but you are never going to use the full capacity, you can get the trailer plated up legally with a lower load capacity. Of course you can't exceed that capacity ever in future even though the trailer is capable of more.
BHP TDs said:
Just as a matter of minor interest if you are ordering a new trailer and the gross weight exceeds the allowable limit but you are never going to use the full capacity, you can get the trailer plated up legally with a lower load capacity. Of course you can't exceed that capacity ever in future even though the trailer is capable of more.
Thats a good idea, I know my track MX5 with a brimmed tank weighs 980kg and the only thing that'd ever go on it (may not even fit width wise) is the VX220 at 830kg so getting it gross weight labelled at 1500kg maybe sensible so a lighter car may get away with towing it. I've got to measure my MX5 tonight as Brian James thought it'd be a tight fit and the bed may need to be slightly longer.You should also ensure the weight on the towball doesn't exceed the cars limits. This weight is adjusted by moving the car on the trailer, ie move the chocks so the car when loaded is further forward or rearward until the towball weight is correct.
I have heard of the Police/VOSA carrying out towball weight checks to ensure the limits aren't being broken. The trailer will tow better as well if you get it right, too much towball weight or not enough and the trailer will tow great.
Now whether anyone actually bothers I don't know, but I did, because, carrying Jerrycans and spare wheels etc, its very easy to have too much towball weight.
I have heard of the Police/VOSA carrying out towball weight checks to ensure the limits aren't being broken. The trailer will tow better as well if you get it right, too much towball weight or not enough and the trailer will tow great.
Now whether anyone actually bothers I don't know, but I did, because, carrying Jerrycans and spare wheels etc, its very easy to have too much towball weight.
matt frost said:
You are right, you can tow (so long as you have the necessary license, or passed your test on the right date therefore not needing a license...after 1997 I believe) so long as the vehicle (on the trailer) weight and trailer weight does not weigh more than the towing car and not more than a total of 3,500kg. You need a license for any more.
The gross weight your car can legally tow is whatever the manufacturer says it is.For instance my Legacy is legal up to 1700kg, whereas the Landy can pull up to 3500kg. Both indicated on the VIN plate riveted to the car and in the handbook, certainly not dictated by the car's weight.
Also, make sure you don't exceed the gross train weight (the maximum weight of car and trailer plus occupants and car contents, also usually on the VIN) by putting fuel, spare tyres, tools, mates etc. in the back of car.
Dft said:
In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.
For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.
See here:- http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/...For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.
It's these figures that the police or VOSA will use to see if you're legal.
Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 12th January 16:41
www.parkers.co.uk is useful to see what different cars can legally tow, look in facts and figures in the car review section. And don't underestimate the weight of spare fuel, wheels, toolkit, that all adds up, then family or mates decide that they would like a day out as well ... . If you can, always better to have more capacity than you think you will need.
BJD said:
www.parkers.co.uk is useful to see what different cars can legally tow, look in facts and figures in the car review section. And don't underestimate the weight of spare fuel, wheels, toolkit, that all adds up, then family or mates decide that they would like a day out as well ... . If you can, always better to have more capacity than you think you will need.
+ 1 You'll be surprised of all the added weightSo how does this all work out with the 'half trailers', or towing dolly type things?
There was one I saw in the back of a recent classic mag that cost around a 1000 pounds, was a two wheel trailer (so you pick the front wheels up), was braked, and connected in exactly the same way a full car transporter trailer would.
If the trailer weighs much less, does that mean the weight of the towed vehicle could be much more, or are there a different set of rules altogether for these 'dolly' style devices?
(I realise the rear wheels of the car will then be dragged along the road etc which may not suit really low cars or cars with track style tyres on etc, but was wondering about this as an option longer term)
There was one I saw in the back of a recent classic mag that cost around a 1000 pounds, was a two wheel trailer (so you pick the front wheels up), was braked, and connected in exactly the same way a full car transporter trailer would.
If the trailer weighs much less, does that mean the weight of the towed vehicle could be much more, or are there a different set of rules altogether for these 'dolly' style devices?
(I realise the rear wheels of the car will then be dragged along the road etc which may not suit really low cars or cars with track style tyres on etc, but was wondering about this as an option longer term)
A911DOM said:
So how does this all work out with the 'half trailers', or towing dolly type things?
There was one I saw in the back of a recent classic mag that cost around a 1000 pounds, was a two wheel trailer (so you pick the front wheels up), was braked, and connected in exactly the same way a full car transporter trailer would.
If the trailer weighs much less, does that mean the weight of the towed vehicle could be much more, or are there a different set of rules altogether for these 'dolly' style devices?
(I realise the rear wheels of the car will then be dragged along the road etc which may not suit really low cars or cars with track style tyres on etc, but was wondering about this as an option longer term)
I seem to recall that the vehicle being towed on a dolly must have tax/MOT and insurance if the towing vehicles insurance doesn't explicitly cover it, unless it's just being recovered. This is because it has its own wheels on the road. You're still governed by the normal towing weight rules (i.e. gross weight of dolly and car being towed should be under the tow cars towing limit)There was one I saw in the back of a recent classic mag that cost around a 1000 pounds, was a two wheel trailer (so you pick the front wheels up), was braked, and connected in exactly the same way a full car transporter trailer would.
If the trailer weighs much less, does that mean the weight of the towed vehicle could be much more, or are there a different set of rules altogether for these 'dolly' style devices?
(I realise the rear wheels of the car will then be dragged along the road etc which may not suit really low cars or cars with track style tyres on etc, but was wondering about this as an option longer term)
If you're looking at buying a tow car, most autotrader ads will list towing capacity in hte Techinical Information part of the ad.
You mentioned A4s, Audi tends to increase the towing capacity as the engine power increases. With a 1.8t A6 you can tow 1800kg but it's nearer 2200 with 2.7T and 4.2
You mentioned A4s, Audi tends to increase the towing capacity as the engine power increases. With a 1.8t A6 you can tow 1800kg but it's nearer 2200 with 2.7T and 4.2
jimbobs said:
Can you let us know how you get on with the measurements of the MX5 please Herman? I may be in a similar position to you later in the year so it would be good to know if a MX5 will fit on the Minnomax trailer.
Cheers
Jim
The minno max is wide enough for the MX5, however there is a quetion over the bed length,.. Brian James suggests the bed should 20cm longer which they can do. However it makes it £1700+vat which is too much. The sport trailers in the right size are £1200, however they are 3com too wide for a normal single garage door...Cheers
Jim
agent006 said:
If you're looking at buying a tow car, most autotrader ads will list towing capacity in hte Techinical Information part of the ad.
You mentioned A4s, Audi tends to increase the towing capacity as the engine power increases. With a 1.8t A6 you can tow 1800kg but it's nearer 2200 with 2.7T and 4.2
Yes more reading up on suggested tow cars pointed that out. Looking at classifieds I think i'll be getting a 2002 A4 Avant Quattro 1.8T 163bhp version. I have been disappointed by people on the Audi forums opinions on the A6 as far as general reliability goes.You mentioned A4s, Audi tends to increase the towing capacity as the engine power increases. With a 1.8t A6 you can tow 1800kg but it's nearer 2200 with 2.7T and 4.2
other things are a factor..
Transmission / brakes etc. My auto A6 is only rated to 1600kg for example.
Trouble is, is that all modern cars are getting lighter for fuel economy /performance. The A6 is aluminium as maybe is the newer A4.
Trailer itself will weight 500kg unloaded (BJT A series tilt 6"x12" area)...
Fortunately I have a van that'll tow mine fully loaded with all the kit etc, but the A6 is useful for nipping the trailer/car around if necessary.
And the cops LOVE an overloaded trailer!!!
Transmission / brakes etc. My auto A6 is only rated to 1600kg for example.
Trouble is, is that all modern cars are getting lighter for fuel economy /performance. The A6 is aluminium as maybe is the newer A4.
Trailer itself will weight 500kg unloaded (BJT A series tilt 6"x12" area)...
Fortunately I have a van that'll tow mine fully loaded with all the kit etc, but the A6 is useful for nipping the trailer/car around if necessary.
And the cops LOVE an overloaded trailer!!!
Edited by Guillotine on Monday 18th January 11:44
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