How about a FHC se7en?

[singlecoil]

Following on from AndyGTTs remarks in another thread, I thought I would put this to the commmittee. It's well known that the usefulness of seven type cars is limited by their weather protection, or rather lack of it. Even a car with windscreen, hood and sidescreens will let in a certain amount of cold and wet, which makes driving that sort of car in the winter less viable. I have given the subject considerable thought from the manufacturing point of view, but couldn't see it working out economically.

So how about a seven with an actual hardtop, purpose designed to keep the weather (and thieves to an extent) out, the warmth in, and to make getting in and out as easy as possible?

My approach would be to incorporate the windscreen into the hardtop itself, which would make sealing and door hinging a good deal easier, and to provide gullwing doors, assisted by gas struts. I have, once, many years ago, tried to enter a seven through the sidescreen aperture and it wasn't very easy. Those who are young, fit, and of medium or less build can manage, but gullwings would be better for the rest of us as they make the entry aperture much larger.

In good weather the hardtop could be removed in its entirety, and the car used without a windscren or a separate unit bolted on.

It's my belief that not enough people would be prepared to pay the likely cost of such a development, but it is still interesting to think about.

[ajprice]

Donkevoort D8 has a hard top and doors, not quite gull wing though.



Its a similar swing to the Mercedes-Mclaren SLR, whatever it is that you call that type of door (brain fade).

[fuoriserie]

I had thought about it a few years ago after a friend had asked me to design him an hard top option for his Dax seven, unfortunately funds never permited to go further than the design concept....

I really think that it has been done rather well by Donkervoort with their seven inspired Gt...

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 12th January 09:36

[Joe T]

Due to the shape of Seven type cars it can be hard work.
http://www.carpictures.com/photo/viewer/07E6I09180...

I think with Gullwing doors there will have to be a metal frame in the roof dependant on door weight. If it includes a glass screen as well I can imagine this may become quite a heavy removable top.

[Vindi_andy]

This is the sort of thing I am looking to do and used as my daily commuter. It doesnt make sense me hauling the big family bus 50 miles each way just for me but as I am tall the super minis dont really cater for me.

I was looking at the Sonic7 with windscreen and roof and then making some doors myself.

The donkervoort whilst looking stunning is too far out of my budget, a Sonic7 is more like it approx £6K build costs with a diesel engine from a focus and then around £600 for windscreen and roof then some time effort and materials for the doors. 1000 to 1500 to turn the sonic7 into a daily commuter

If there was something already available ideally using a focus as the donor the I would look at it seriously especially in that sort of price range.

The GTM fits the bill in terms of a weatherproof little car but again budget constraints rule it out.

[Sam_68]

Westfield did a gullwing hardtop a few years ago, too, though it wasn't a big seller for some reason.

Apart from access, a couple of obvious problems come to mind:

• even if you provide elbow blisters in the doors, a typical Seven can be a pretty claustraphobic place to be when it's not open, due to the narrow cockpit width.
• The noise levels are usually intolerable when the hood is up, and I imagine you'll get similar problems with a hard top.

[FlossyThePig]

These are Se7ens, please get it right!

They all have hardtops

Edited by FlossyThePig on Tuesday 12th January 20:18

[Paul Drawmer]

Two problems to this:
1. Most Seven types are bloody awful to be in when the roof is up, with an increase in noise, closed in feeling etc. A hard top would not be any better in that respect than a soft top. Most Seven drivers get the roof down asap when they can drive without it.

2. Just how many different dimensions are there. There's lots of different makes, and some makes have more than one body, so would it be a magical 'one size fits all' or only make the mold for the most popular?

Oh, I forgot about fitting it over different cages.

Millwood tried this in about 2005. It didn't sell.

Edited by Paul Drawmer on Tuesday 12th January 13:43

[thescamper]

The Carcraft Cyclone which I suppose is sevenish had a half decent hardtop see

[fuoriserie]

Sam_68 said:

Westfield did a gullwing hardtop a few years ago, too, though it wasn't a big seller for some reason.

Apart from access, a couple of obvious problems come to mind:

• even if you provide elbow blisters in the doors, a typical Seven can be a pretty claustraphobic place to be when it's not open, due to the narrow cockpit width.
• The noise levels are usually intolerable when the hood is up, and I imagine you'll get similar problems with a hard top.

Was this the hardtop ?

[Sam_68]

fuoriserie said:

Was this the hardtop?

Yep, that's the one - I remember seeing one fitted to burgundy coloured car at one of the shows, years ago, and it actually looked quite nice.

I didn't realise it was that expensive, though - £1,600 would have bought you a very respectable shopping car for when it was wet, back then!

[singlecoil]

I think that if somebody did think that this is a gap in the market that was worth exploring, that I would advise them to think in terms of designing the entire car, with the the hardtop integrated into the design.

I'd suggest choosing a donor that would provide a wide axle (as it's the distance between the rear wheels that sets the maximum width of the cockpit), and leaving enough room in the design to allow for some soundproofing as well.

I'd forgotten about the Cyclone, that looked to me to be a good idea, I'm not sure if the reasons for its lack of success ever really came out.

In the end, though, it seems that most people see sevens as summer cars, and I son't get the impression too many of them would pay out for a hardtop version.

[deviant]

I think there would be more of a market for an effective soft roof and doors that actually keep the wet out. Keeping the heat in probably doesnt need to be a huge requirement, I have not spent a great deal of time in 7's but there was always some warmth making its way in through the transmission tunnel and removing any chilly draughts would go a long way to making the driver feel warm.

The technology developed would likely transfer to any shape / size of roof to.

[thescamper]

[quote=singlecoil]

I'd forgotten about the Cyclone, that looked to me to be a good idea, I'm not sure if the reasons for its lack of success ever really came out.

quote]

I think the lack of success was down to a DIVORCE;)

[singlecoil]

thescamper said:

singlecoil said:

I'd forgotten about the Cyclone, that looked to me to be a good idea, I'm not sure if the reasons for its lack of success ever really came out.

I think the lack of success was down to a DIVORCE;)

Always a problem when that happens, but it's difficult to see how that could kill an otherwise successful project. If there was a property split the usual thing is to sell the company and split the proceeds, there are always buyers for kit car companies with a viable product.

[JoelT]

FlossyThePig said:

These are Se7ens, please get it right!
They all have hardtops

Edited by FlossyThePig on Tuesday 12th January 20:18

Incidentally I worked on that orange Gerald Dale Se7en at the front of that picture a few years back. I think they've changed their name from Gerald Dale Motorsport to Gerald Dale Engineering since.

[thescamper]

singlecoil said:

Always a problem when that happens, but it's difficult to see how that could kill an otherwise successful project. If there was a property split the usual thing is to sell the company and split the proceeds, there are always buyers for kit car companies with a viable product.

I had heard that the spurned party destroyed the body molds.

[Fat Arnie]

You are all big girls. There's nothing quite like driving an aeroscreened Seven either 1) in the rain (buy a kaqrting watewrproof suit and a helmet, or at 140mph+ with just sunglasses on, as I have several times on a certain bridge at Honfleur. This was a few years ago...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-oFRAVD0F0

[Fat Arnie]

A Seven is the purest form of road car.

Adding weather protection effects aerodynamics, C of G, and weight.

A flimsy strip of carbon fibre to deflect the wind over you head is all that is required - good for 140mph+ on a dry day see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-oFRAVD0F0

If ots raining, buy one of those Sparco karting rainsuits and a helmet!

[singlecoil]

Fat Arnie said:

A Seven is the purest form of road car.

Adding weather protection effects aerodynamics, C of G, and weight.

A flimsy strip of carbon fibre to deflect the wind over you head is all that is required - good for 140mph+ on a dry day see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-oFRAVD0F0

If ots raining, buy one of those Sparco karting rainsuits and a helmet!

Bit tricky keeping up a steady 140 though Aylesbury at 8.30 am on a weekday morning, and not all offices and other places of work have changing rooms!