State your position and let's talk about it.
Discussion
In another thread Mon Ami Mate said.... "State your position and let's talk about it."
Sounds good, so let's all do it.
Me? I enjoy driving. I drive a lot. Member of IAM. I obey the law. I don't like it when other drivers break the law and get in my way. Despite this I don't like speed cameras.
What about you?
Sounds good, so let's all do it.
Me? I enjoy driving. I drive a lot. Member of IAM. I obey the law. I don't like it when other drivers break the law and get in my way. Despite this I don't like speed cameras.
What about you?
OK then, I'll jump into this topic too 
I love driving, I love racing (especially the winning) and I'm a firm believer in driver education, education, education rather than dumbing it down.
When it comes to me driving on the road, I don't obey the speed limit, ever. I choose the speed which is appropriate for the conditions, this means that most of the time I will be below the limit, but this is only coincidental. Just to reiterate: I'm not obeying the signs, I'm just choosing to drive at my own speed, if it happens to be the same as the signs then that's just great.
Driving for 10 years, never been in a crash or even come vaguely close to being in one. I am paying 100% attention to all other road users, my road position, what my car might do, what other peoples' car might do, where the pot holes are, where a hazard may be hiding etc etc etc
Edited to say: If the phrase "I don't obey the speed limit" is taken out of context and used in the national press to deem me as some sort of child killing speed freak, I will sue for deformation of character, fact!
>> Edited by forever_driving on Tuesday 3rd February 14:29
I love driving, I love racing (especially the winning) and I'm a firm believer in driver education, education, education rather than dumbing it down.
When it comes to me driving on the road, I don't obey the speed limit, ever. I choose the speed which is appropriate for the conditions, this means that most of the time I will be below the limit, but this is only coincidental. Just to reiterate: I'm not obeying the signs, I'm just choosing to drive at my own speed, if it happens to be the same as the signs then that's just great.
Driving for 10 years, never been in a crash or even come vaguely close to being in one. I am paying 100% attention to all other road users, my road position, what my car might do, what other peoples' car might do, where the pot holes are, where a hazard may be hiding etc etc etc
Edited to say: If the phrase "I don't obey the speed limit" is taken out of context and used in the national press to deem me as some sort of child killing speed freak, I will sue for deformation of character, fact!
>> Edited by forever_driving on Tuesday 3rd February 14:29
As above
I drive at speeds suitable to the conditions. Simple.
I dont agree with cameras and the majority of speed reduction methods because i believe that they are missing the point of road safety. I would rather see a 1 patrol car than 10 speed cameras. Thats not so I can speed without getting caught, its becasue I feel that the roads are now a more dangerous place with so much attention giving to speeding.
IMO uninsured/drunk/unqualified etc etc drivers pose more of a problem to the quality of driving on todays roads.
All IMHO of course
I drive at speeds suitable to the conditions. Simple.
I dont agree with cameras and the majority of speed reduction methods because i believe that they are missing the point of road safety. I would rather see a 1 patrol car than 10 speed cameras. Thats not so I can speed without getting caught, its becasue I feel that the roads are now a more dangerous place with so much attention giving to speeding.
IMO uninsured/drunk/unqualified etc etc drivers pose more of a problem to the quality of driving on todays roads.
All IMHO of course
My turn....
I drive loads, and very rarely take any notice of speed limits, either in town or out of it, which generally means that I'm travelling faster than the posted limit, except when conditions dictate otherwise. Does this make me dangerous, ermmmm nope. I keep my eyes open and am VERY aware of what is going on around me on the road.
The last time I caused an accident was when I was a mere youngster, full of confidence and bravado - but even that one was at 20 mph in a 40 limit! So afaiac, speeding is NOT a causation factor in the majority of accidents and speed cmaeras are NOT making our roads safer by any stretch of the imagination.
Now, if you want reasoned debate, then bring it on, but PURRRLEASE dont give us any of that "think of the children" rubbish, as emotion makes absolutely the worst laws - FACT!
Accidents happen, people die every day. Yes it is sad when it happens, but lets keep a sense of proportion here. More people die of hospital generated infections and screw-ups than die on the roads, but where is the great campaign and public-awareness issues
over hospital cleanliness and Doctor training. Oh, I forgot, you cant make any money out of that,can you?
Now, if cameras are such a great thing, and really do stop people "speeding", why then is Brunstrum so excited about getting more and more people coinvicted - surely he should be saying " we want more cameras and LESS convictions than last year", but no, what he want is "more cameras and MORE fines please".. Make your own mind up about the logical thought behind that statement.
I drive loads, and very rarely take any notice of speed limits, either in town or out of it, which generally means that I'm travelling faster than the posted limit, except when conditions dictate otherwise. Does this make me dangerous, ermmmm nope. I keep my eyes open and am VERY aware of what is going on around me on the road.
The last time I caused an accident was when I was a mere youngster, full of confidence and bravado - but even that one was at 20 mph in a 40 limit! So afaiac, speeding is NOT a causation factor in the majority of accidents and speed cmaeras are NOT making our roads safer by any stretch of the imagination.
Now, if you want reasoned debate, then bring it on, but PURRRLEASE dont give us any of that "think of the children" rubbish, as emotion makes absolutely the worst laws - FACT!
Accidents happen, people die every day. Yes it is sad when it happens, but lets keep a sense of proportion here. More people die of hospital generated infections and screw-ups than die on the roads, but where is the great campaign and public-awareness issues
over hospital cleanliness and Doctor training. Oh, I forgot, you cant make any money out of that,can you?
Now, if cameras are such a great thing, and really do stop people "speeding", why then is Brunstrum so excited about getting more and more people coinvicted - surely he should be saying " we want more cameras and LESS convictions than last year", but no, what he want is "more cameras and MORE fines please".. Make your own mind up about the logical thought behind that statement.
Much the same as you. I love driving and motorcycling. I always try my hardest to observe speed limits in built up areas, not because I'm scared of speed cameras but because I believe speed limits in built up areas should be treated with respect. In doing this I increasingly find myself targeted by people who then don't drive as quickly as I do on open roads. I've been tailgated, flashed at, verbally abused and gestured at with increasing frequency in the last couple of years, either for driving at 30mph in a 30mph limit, or for having the temerity to legally overtake somebody on the open road.
I honestly believe that driving standards have diminished to a dangerous level. Motorways are a prime example of this - motorway driving standards are poor because nobody teaches drivers how to drive on motorways. I think that the blame for this is that motoring is increasingly treated as a right instead of a privilege, and driving laws (including speed limits) are then revisited to make them appropriate for the least able drivers.
Having lived on four continents and driven all over the world I still think that we have some of the safest roads on the planet and this appears to be backed up by statistics. However, we are regressing fast in my view. For this reason I think that speed cameras are nothing more than a thumb in the dyke. Until we start to drive standards up again we will see more and more accidents, used to justify lower and lower limits.
I do believe that most speed cameras are revenue raising devices. I have become more of this opinion since buying a Road Angel recently - this device tells you where accident blackspots are and tells you where cameras are. I haven't yet come across a speed camera sited in a genuine accident blackspot.
Put them in town and city centres. Put them outside schools, shops, houses and retirement homes. Put them within 100 yards of dangerous junctions and put them on every traffic light in the country. And then come down HARDER on those that ignore them. Take them away from country roads, motorways and open A roads because they just create contempt for the law.
I'd be amazed if anybody on this website would argue with any of this.
I honestly believe that driving standards have diminished to a dangerous level. Motorways are a prime example of this - motorway driving standards are poor because nobody teaches drivers how to drive on motorways. I think that the blame for this is that motoring is increasingly treated as a right instead of a privilege, and driving laws (including speed limits) are then revisited to make them appropriate for the least able drivers.
Having lived on four continents and driven all over the world I still think that we have some of the safest roads on the planet and this appears to be backed up by statistics. However, we are regressing fast in my view. For this reason I think that speed cameras are nothing more than a thumb in the dyke. Until we start to drive standards up again we will see more and more accidents, used to justify lower and lower limits.
I do believe that most speed cameras are revenue raising devices. I have become more of this opinion since buying a Road Angel recently - this device tells you where accident blackspots are and tells you where cameras are. I haven't yet come across a speed camera sited in a genuine accident blackspot.
Put them in town and city centres. Put them outside schools, shops, houses and retirement homes. Put them within 100 yards of dangerous junctions and put them on every traffic light in the country. And then come down HARDER on those that ignore them. Take them away from country roads, motorways and open A roads because they just create contempt for the law.
I'd be amazed if anybody on this website would argue with any of this.
Passed IAM test nd active for many years in local group helping others hear about and take the test. Driving since 1978, never had a single point.
Absolutely against speed camaras - local government coin box which has a lot to answer for in reducing the push for safer road design and safer driving.
Absolutely against speed camaras - local government coin box which has a lot to answer for in reducing the push for safer road design and safer driving.
Well, I follow the PH line of preferring to drive at my own speed and enjoying driving...
BUT
[devil's advocate mode on]
We all slag off numpties left, right and centre - and the majority of us do believe that we are better than average drivers.
Hence, wouldn't road safety be better off dictating to the lowest common denominator...?
How can the state allow the better drivers to have more fun, except on the track?
[devil's advocate mode off]
Please discuss
Andrew54 - I hope I'm not hijacking your thread!
BUT
[devil's advocate mode on]
We all slag off numpties left, right and centre - and the majority of us do believe that we are better than average drivers.
Hence, wouldn't road safety be better off dictating to the lowest common denominator...?
How can the state allow the better drivers to have more fun, except on the track?
[devil's advocate mode off]
Please discuss
Andrew54 - I hope I'm not hijacking your thread!
mondeoman said:
Accidents happen, people die every day.
Going off topic, I can't remember where I found them but I was going through some death statisics from last year and I think approx 20 people died due to putting on their socks in the morning and I think aprrox 35 died whilst turning off their alarm/clock radio.
Being alive causes death, simple.
I agree with everything already stated but try to keep to the speed limit in towns and built up areas and especially around schools etc.
It can though be more dangerous constantly looking at your speedo to ensure you don't blip over the 30 limit, when you really should be looking at what's going on around you and risking going slightly over the 30!
I enjoy driving both cars and motorcycles but remain totally unconvinced that speed cameras are anything other than revenue earners. I have no problem with them in schools or genuine high risk locations but not on dual carriageways and motorways, where the limit could quite easily and safely be set higher than it is.
It can though be more dangerous constantly looking at your speedo to ensure you don't blip over the 30 limit, when you really should be looking at what's going on around you and risking going slightly over the 30!
I enjoy driving both cars and motorcycles but remain totally unconvinced that speed cameras are anything other than revenue earners. I have no problem with them in schools or genuine high risk locations but not on dual carriageways and motorways, where the limit could quite easily and safely be set higher than it is.
I don't drive at all.
I'm a Road Safety Researcher for a British city, and my "drive" is to care and stop people having road accidents and getting killed. I like speed cameras only where they make a difference - known trouble spots and schools on potentially dangerous roads, but not when left in after making no massive effect.
I also donn't like the shift to electronic law enforcement - where before we used to tick people off and give them little reminders about bad driving etc.
I joined PistonHeads recently as a) I do not like Brake for wasting my cities tax payers money in the past by duplicating work, our road safety department has done with ABSOLUTELY NO CONSULTATION WITH US FIRST
b) claiming there were death threats on this site, when a Chief Constable had said there were none.
c) saying that "these" people's views should be ignored or have no relevancy (can't remember the exact quote) - no citizen's views of this country should be ignored, period.
Whilst I might not agree on everything on the site - but no one should be silenced. Mary Williams runs Brake as a PR organisation first and foremost, there's nothing wrong people having an opposing view doing the same - just a long as the discussion stays real and above board.
I also joined PistonHeads because whilst there are many BiB who can help out with the law and other aspects of road safety, there didn't seem like anyone from the Local Authorities who could fill people in on just what your local authorities get upto - like the pedestrian training we run etc etc
>> Edited by Kurgis on Tuesday 3rd February 14:59
I'm a Road Safety Researcher for a British city, and my "drive" is to care and stop people having road accidents and getting killed. I like speed cameras only where they make a difference - known trouble spots and schools on potentially dangerous roads, but not when left in after making no massive effect.
I also donn't like the shift to electronic law enforcement - where before we used to tick people off and give them little reminders about bad driving etc.
I joined PistonHeads recently as a) I do not like Brake for wasting my cities tax payers money in the past by duplicating work, our road safety department has done with ABSOLUTELY NO CONSULTATION WITH US FIRST
b) claiming there were death threats on this site, when a Chief Constable had said there were none.
c) saying that "these" people's views should be ignored or have no relevancy (can't remember the exact quote) - no citizen's views of this country should be ignored, period.
Whilst I might not agree on everything on the site - but no one should be silenced. Mary Williams runs Brake as a PR organisation first and foremost, there's nothing wrong people having an opposing view doing the same - just a long as the discussion stays real and above board.
I also joined PistonHeads because whilst there are many BiB who can help out with the law and other aspects of road safety, there didn't seem like anyone from the Local Authorities who could fill people in on just what your local authorities get upto - like the pedestrian training we run etc etc
>> Edited by Kurgis on Tuesday 3rd February 14:59
forever_driving said:
Accidents happen, people die every day.
Going off topic, I can't remember where I found them but I was going through some death statisics from last year and I think approx 20 people died due to putting on their socks in the morning and I think aprrox 35 died whilst turning off their alarm/clock radio.
Being alive causes death, simple.
Life is a terminal illness.
However, there is no doubt that there is a line to be drawn between living your life to the full and taking reckless liberties. I'm prepared to push the risk factor a little when I am in a situation where only my neck is on the line. I'm not prepared to be reckless with the welfare of others at stake. Which is why I drive and ride like my virgin aunt when I have passengers or when I'm in built up areas. But why I'm prepared to stretch the envelope on a sunny day, clear road, miles from civilisation.
But guess in which of these two scenarios I'm most likely to meet a Gatso...
puggit said:
It really exists?!
Yes and cyclist training, your local councils will be doing something I bet - try phoning them and just ask them how many schools they have managed to cover this year or last year - as I said under another a thread it depends on whether the Head can be bothered, whether we can get the volunteers/parents to help and a few other factors - like have our 3 RSO's (Road Safety Officers) got time. (Thats one officer per 80,000 people...)
very well put Kurgis.
we, all i am sure want safer roads, thus our AIM is the same, only our methods and views how to achieve this are different.
i think that at present the whole subject requires a full review. to include but not limited to:
driver training, penilties, tax, insurance, speed limits and police enforcement.
because the current system is too complex, disjointed and beginning to crumble, is it not?
we, all i am sure want safer roads, thus our AIM is the same, only our methods and views how to achieve this are different.
i think that at present the whole subject requires a full review. to include but not limited to:
driver training, penilties, tax, insurance, speed limits and police enforcement.
because the current system is too complex, disjointed and beginning to crumble, is it not?
Kurgis said:
It really exists?!
Yes and cyclist training, your local councils will be doing something I bet - try phoning them and just ask them how many schools they have managed to cover this year or last year - as I said under another a thread it depends on whether the Head can be bothered, whether we can get the volunteers/parents to help and a few other factors - like have our 3 RSO's (Road Safety Officers) got time. (Thats one officer per 80,000 people...)
Sounds like your RSOs need to hire out Wembley Stadium
Anyway, glad to hear that there's someone out there trying to get the education message across, just wish that there were more.
Mon Ami Mate said:
However, there is no doubt that there is a line to be drawn between living your life to the full and taking reckless liberties. I'm prepared to push the risk factor a little when I am in a situation where only my neck is on the line. I'm not prepared to be reckless with the welfare of others at stake. Which is why I drive and ride like my virgin aunt when I have passengers or when I'm in built up areas. But why I'm prepared to stretch the envelope on a sunny day, clear road, miles from civilisation.
But guess in which of these two scenarios I'm most likely to meet a Gatso...
So true
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