Discussion
Hi All,
I have been wondering about a change from the 996 TT to a GT2 for a little while and was wondering what the concencus of opinion of those that have sampled both and/or own the GT2, is over the two vehicles. Incidentally are there any GT2 owners here who were present at the Bedford Autodrome RMA trackday last weekend, as I counted 5 GT2s I think and no other 996TTs there. I guess what surprised me was that the Turbo appeared to be quicker than the GT2s, even on the track (I have seen the many and well documented arguments as to the relative merits of the turbo as a point to point car and the GT2 as a track tool) and although it was wet I was expecting the GT2s to be quicker on what is a fairly smooth track so should suit their setup over the TT. One owner (sorry didn't get your name, chatting to Don Palmer at the end of the day) mentioned that the GT2 was less happy and controllable in the power slide department than the TT, is this really the case on a track? Is the GT2 such a different animal, when it's got to have similar weight distribution, centre of gravity, wheelbase, I accept that stiffer suspension will make it altogether more jittery especially on bumpy roads, but is it really as scary as all that without the TT's PSM, which I find myself using less and less on the roads and certainly not on the track (snowy conditions last week accepted!!!!) the chassis is so adjustable and entertaining - anyway your thoughts greatly received even if this one has been done to death!! Should I make the change or should I carry on down the modification route with the TT?
I have been wondering about a change from the 996 TT to a GT2 for a little while and was wondering what the concencus of opinion of those that have sampled both and/or own the GT2, is over the two vehicles. Incidentally are there any GT2 owners here who were present at the Bedford Autodrome RMA trackday last weekend, as I counted 5 GT2s I think and no other 996TTs there. I guess what surprised me was that the Turbo appeared to be quicker than the GT2s, even on the track (I have seen the many and well documented arguments as to the relative merits of the turbo as a point to point car and the GT2 as a track tool) and although it was wet I was expecting the GT2s to be quicker on what is a fairly smooth track so should suit their setup over the TT. One owner (sorry didn't get your name, chatting to Don Palmer at the end of the day) mentioned that the GT2 was less happy and controllable in the power slide department than the TT, is this really the case on a track? Is the GT2 such a different animal, when it's got to have similar weight distribution, centre of gravity, wheelbase, I accept that stiffer suspension will make it altogether more jittery especially on bumpy roads, but is it really as scary as all that without the TT's PSM, which I find myself using less and less on the roads and certainly not on the track (snowy conditions last week accepted!!!!) the chassis is so adjustable and entertaining - anyway your thoughts greatly received even if this one has been done to death!! Should I make the change or should I carry on down the modification route with the TT?
Charlie, the RMA GT2 boys currently live on www.stuttgartnines.co.uk/upload/
I think Guy and Henry were both there last weekend, black and arctic silver GT2 CSs respectively.
I've never driven a GT2 but the reasons I opted for the turbo remain valid (safe usability of power on road).
Remember to budget for changing brakes to steels discs all round if you go the GT2 route.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 3rd February 17:35
I've never driven a GT2 but the reasons I opted for the turbo remain valid (safe usability of power on road).
Remember to budget for changing brakes to steels discs all round if you go the GT2 route.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 3rd February 17:35
jeremyc said:
There was a silver GT2 on an 02 or 03 reg with 8k miles for just 69950 at Stratstones Wilmslow IIRC....
I imagine that it didn't go unnoticed by a majority of the PH Porker Massive.
£20k under the correct asking price...now up at £89,950 still not unreasonable compared to new price.
being told of £69,950 I assumed it was correct at the time, just that the car would need a new set of discs & pads all round which wouldn't have made it much of a bargain
charlie360 said:
Thanks Paul I'll go and post on S9 and see what response I get and Dom, I'd noticed prices of GT2s slipping past TTs which is what really started me wondering, they would appear to represent relatively good value for money these days, especially next to a new one at £120K+
Charlie I would also go to check the GT2/3 and 996TT forums on www.rennlist.com there are quite a few GT2/TT comparison threads,some of the guys (mostly american) have owned several GT2 & modified TT at the same time for comparison purposes...as one does?
clubsport said:
domster said:
There was a silver GT2 on an 02 or 03 reg with 8k miles for just 69950 at Stratstones Wilmslow IIRC....
I imagine that it didn't go unnoticed by a majority of the PH Porker Massive.
£20k under the correct asking price...now up at £89,950 still not unreasonable compared to new price.
being told of £69,950 I assumed it was correct at the time, just that the car would need a new set of discs & pads all round which wouldn't have made it much of a bargain
LOL, must have been a typo.
I remember now that the ad was in The Sunday Times, not Porsche Post.
Can remember doing a double take as higher mileage older 996TTs were the same price or more
domster said:
Must have seen underpriced GT2 in both then!!! LOL.
Jezza, I was checking the prices as Greg (Buster not Barrowboy) has shown they can be a practical runabout with the addition of a roofrack.
Cheeky w*nker - in spite of being busy wiring plugs I do get time to read this, y' know.
Sawdust in your jellied eels n the 21st, you swine!
Just my £0.02 worth, as have been thinking along the same lines as you, in as much as changing the chim at the end of the year or keeping it and modding it further:
1) I remember reading you had the 996TT tuned to near 500bhp
Is it worth tuning it further, or do you want the GT2 for the 2WD thrills? The GT2 will feel a bit steady after the modded 996 maybe? And tuning the GT2 up to the level of power you have would cost a few quid.
2) Could you go for a RUF, Gemballa, or Rocck (sp?) version of the 911 - rare, desirable, though expensive?
3) Do all the GT2's have the ceramic brakes, hence the comment about budgeting for conventional replacements? Sounds expensive either way.
4) If you like going on the track, could you get a track focussed model such as the 964/993 RS, or GT3, then get 9m racing to get the motronic system installed and even supercharge it (964/993) - meaning you have a rocket of a road car in the 996, and also a very track biased virtual racing car?
I suppose the only problem with even more tuning on the 996 is that you never get the cost back when selling, but then again what cost (within reason) can you put on enjoyment?
Just my opinion, prob not very well informed as have never even driven a Porker
Regards my own predicament, have the modded 5 litre chim, really like it. But the handling is not that great, hence do I keep it and go for nitrons, bigger brakes, and uprate engine further with hotter cam, etc, and not sell? Or swap it - here it gets difficult as I really like having the soft top for summer hence thinking of another TVR or poss some other soft tops, but really like the 993 Turbo 4, and (on my budget) the mark 1 GT3. For sure I will test drive a 993 / 964 RS too after Domster sang its praises for an hour at BTaP
What do people reckon?
Edited for monkey boy spelling
>> Edited by MOD500 on Wednesday 4th February 13:37
1) I remember reading you had the 996TT tuned to near 500bhp
Is it worth tuning it further, or do you want the GT2 for the 2WD thrills? The GT2 will feel a bit steady after the modded 996 maybe? And tuning the GT2 up to the level of power you have would cost a few quid. 2) Could you go for a RUF, Gemballa, or Rocck (sp?) version of the 911 - rare, desirable, though expensive?
3) Do all the GT2's have the ceramic brakes, hence the comment about budgeting for conventional replacements? Sounds expensive either way.
4) If you like going on the track, could you get a track focussed model such as the 964/993 RS, or GT3, then get 9m racing to get the motronic system installed and even supercharge it (964/993) - meaning you have a rocket of a road car in the 996, and also a very track biased virtual racing car?
I suppose the only problem with even more tuning on the 996 is that you never get the cost back when selling, but then again what cost (within reason) can you put on enjoyment?
Just my opinion, prob not very well informed as have never even driven a Porker
Regards my own predicament, have the modded 5 litre chim, really like it. But the handling is not that great, hence do I keep it and go for nitrons, bigger brakes, and uprate engine further with hotter cam, etc, and not sell? Or swap it - here it gets difficult as I really like having the soft top for summer hence thinking of another TVR or poss some other soft tops, but really like the 993 Turbo 4, and (on my budget) the mark 1 GT3. For sure I will test drive a 993 / 964 RS too after Domster sang its praises for an hour at BTaP
What do people reckon? Edited for monkey boy spelling
>> Edited by MOD500 on Wednesday 4th February 13:37
I went from 993 RS to GT2, difference is staggering in every way. The cars are incomparable. The RS is pure air-cooled lightweight at it's finest. The GT2 is so much quicker, faster, stable, comfortable, refined etc..
As for tuning, I'm afraid you're wrong. A GT2 is already has 460-480bhp and is cheaper and more effective to tune as it already has the bigger turbos and intercooler and gearbox cooling etc to cope, as well as better radiator design etc
The suspension on a GT2 is also much better, adjustable, lower and with better joints (uniball).
To compare the cars read here:
www.porsche.nu/html_swedish/photos/GT2/Information_911_GT2.pdf
Then you'll understand why a GT2 is £40k more than a Turbo.
A new GT2 is also 170kg lighter than a new Turbo according to Porsche...............
As for tuning, it is generally money wasted, it's always better to buy the next model up. (I speak from experience having spent £70,000 on tuning a Skyline GTR and having only got back an extra £15,000 when it sold).
>> Edited by GuyR on Wednesday 4th February 13:47
GuyR said:
I went from 993 RS to GT2, difference is staggering in every way. The cars are incomparable. The RS is pure air-cooled lightweight at it's finest. The GT2 is so much quicker, faster, stable, comfortable, refined etc..
I appreciate it is, I was trying to offer an option of keeping the 996TT, plus having a honed 911 track tool
GuyR said:
As for tuning, I'm afraid you're wrong. A GT2 is already has 460-480bhp and is cheaper and more effective to tune as it already has the bigger turbos and intercooler and gearbox cooling etc to cope, as well as better radiator design etc
Did'nt realise that, with all the upgrade bits on to start with, so would be cheaper to mod a GT2.
GuyR said:
The suspension on a GT2 is also much better, adjustable, lower and with better joints (uniball).
To compare the cars read here:
<a href="http://www.porsche.nu/html_swedish/photos/GT2/Information_911_GT2.pdf">www.porsche.nu/html_swedish/photos/GT2/Information_911_GT2.pdf</a>
Then you'll understand why a GT2 is £40k more than a Turbo.
Makes very interesting reading. With all that power is the GT2 abit of a wide ride on the road with the 2WD or is it ok (for the average driver)? How have you found the ceramic brakes for wear, etc - as think I read somewhere the rotors had probs with cracks nucleating from the cross-drilled holes after track days.
GuyR said:
As for tuning, it is generally money wasted, it's always better to buy the next model up. (I speak from experience having spent £70,000 on tuning a Skyline GTR and having only got back an extra £15,000 when it sold).
Wow, bet that was a monster of a Skyline! What were you putting out by the end, was it an R33 or R34?
1. Sell TT at £80k, buy GT2 at £90k. You can't buy a good RS for the £10k difference............
2. PCCB = rubbish. Poor pedal feel, brakes no better than steel and I had mine replaced at 9,000 miles (£14,000 expense paid by Porsche goodwill, as they are excluded from warranty). I and others will convert to steel, to avoid the potential hassle.
3. GTR is long and painful story. Short answer is R34 dynoed with over 700bhp. Also had R32 with proven over 1100bhp on the UK dyno - another long story. Neither of which are for this thread, as a bit off-topic.
Guy
>> Edited by GuyR on Wednesday 4th February 15:27
GuyR said:
1. Sell TT at £80k, buy GT2 at £90k. You can't buy a good RS for the £10k difference............
2. PCCB = rubbish. Poor pedal feel, brakes no better than steel and I had mine replaced at 9,000 miles (£14,000 expense paid by Porsche goodwill, as they are excluded from warranty). I and others will convert to steel, to avoid the potential hassle.
3. GTR is long and painful story. Short answer is R34 dynoed with over 700bhp. Also had R32 with proven over 1100bhp on the UK dyno - another long story. Neither of which are for this thread, as a bit off-topic.
Guy
>> Edited by GuyR on Wednesday 4th February 15:27
Guy,
14 grand to convert to steel brakes? How much? That is extraordinary.
Do you drive yours every day?
No £14k to get a pair of PCCB discs and pads replaced. The list price for PCCB discs is £5,500 + vat each.
I have not yet coverted to steel discs (I am finalising the solution regarding disc sizes), but it will be relatively cheap ie £1k -£2k all-in.
My GT2 is not a daily driver, though it could easily be, it drives as easy as any other 996, just take care with right pedal (no PSM or 4wd) and ramps/inclines (it is very low).
>> Edited by GuyR on Wednesday 4th February 20:30
>> Edited by GuyR on Wednesday 4th February 20:31
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