An interesting Facebook group...
Discussion
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=m...
What do the PH massive think of this? I agree with much of the sentiments. I've met some soldiers who wanted to do good, such as Matt Hatton, who was killed in Afghanistan. I was angry and annoyed that he was killed, as he was a nice guy, and genuinely wanted to bring the people of Afghanistan freedom. He was, in my eyes, a proper hero.
However, I've also met a soldier who said killing in Iraq was "ethnic cleansing, as they're a lesser race." I resisted punching him and walked away.
I also feel too many soldiers don't think about what they're doing. They CAN say "I am not fighting this war", but most don't. Iraq, is in my eyes, a huge mistake. I've formed this view after seeing the way the country has gone down the pan, and speaking to a woman who worked with me, who was from Baghdad. She told me Saddam, whilst being nasty in many ways, had to rule with an iron fist to keep the various sects and factions from killing each other.
I am not so sure about Afghanistan, I have no time for Religious Extremism of any kind, so I was glad to see them removed from power. I do feel we can't win the war though.
So, what do you guys make of this group? I just stumbled on it and found it quite interesting, and quite daring too.
What do the PH massive think of this? I agree with much of the sentiments. I've met some soldiers who wanted to do good, such as Matt Hatton, who was killed in Afghanistan. I was angry and annoyed that he was killed, as he was a nice guy, and genuinely wanted to bring the people of Afghanistan freedom. He was, in my eyes, a proper hero.
However, I've also met a soldier who said killing in Iraq was "ethnic cleansing, as they're a lesser race." I resisted punching him and walked away.
I also feel too many soldiers don't think about what they're doing. They CAN say "I am not fighting this war", but most don't. Iraq, is in my eyes, a huge mistake. I've formed this view after seeing the way the country has gone down the pan, and speaking to a woman who worked with me, who was from Baghdad. She told me Saddam, whilst being nasty in many ways, had to rule with an iron fist to keep the various sects and factions from killing each other.
I am not so sure about Afghanistan, I have no time for Religious Extremism of any kind, so I was glad to see them removed from power. I do feel we can't win the war though.
So, what do you guys make of this group? I just stumbled on it and found it quite interesting, and quite daring too.
TVR653X said:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=m...
What do the PH massive think of this? I agree with much of the sentiments. I've met some soldiers who wanted to do good, such as Matt Hatton, who was killed in Afghanistan. I was angry and annoyed that he was killed, as he was a nice guy, and genuinely wanted to bring the people of Afghanistan freedom. He was, in my eyes, a proper hero.
However, I've also met a soldier who said killing in Iraq was "ethnic cleansing, as they're a lesser race." I resisted punching him and walked away.
I also feel too many soldiers don't think about what they're doing. They CAN say "I am not fighting this war", but most don't. Iraq, is in my eyes, a huge mistake. I've formed this view after seeing the way the country has gone down the pan, and speaking to a woman who worked with me, who was from Baghdad. She told me Saddam, whilst being nasty in many ways, had to rule with an iron fist to keep the various sects and factions from killing each other.
I am not so sure about Afghanistan, I have no time for Religious Extremism of any kind, so I was glad to see them removed from power. I do feel we can't win the war though.
So, what do you guys make of this group? I just stumbled on it and found it quite interesting, and quite daring too.
The forces are like all walks of life - you get a proportion of tWhat do the PH massive think of this? I agree with much of the sentiments. I've met some soldiers who wanted to do good, such as Matt Hatton, who was killed in Afghanistan. I was angry and annoyed that he was killed, as he was a nice guy, and genuinely wanted to bring the people of Afghanistan freedom. He was, in my eyes, a proper hero.
However, I've also met a soldier who said killing in Iraq was "ethnic cleansing, as they're a lesser race." I resisted punching him and walked away.
I also feel too many soldiers don't think about what they're doing. They CAN say "I am not fighting this war", but most don't. Iraq, is in my eyes, a huge mistake. I've formed this view after seeing the way the country has gone down the pan, and speaking to a woman who worked with me, who was from Baghdad. She told me Saddam, whilst being nasty in many ways, had to rule with an iron fist to keep the various sects and factions from killing each other.
I am not so sure about Afghanistan, I have no time for Religious Extremism of any kind, so I was glad to see them removed from power. I do feel we can't win the war though.
So, what do you guys make of this group? I just stumbled on it and found it quite interesting, and quite daring too.
ts. A hero is defined by their actions, so by default a soldier is not a hero. He/she becomes a hero by their actions, and as the number of awards won in Afghanistan and Iraq show there are a fair few who can and should be classed as heroes; just as there are a number who can be classed as scum for the acts they have perpetrated.My views on the group are the same I have for facebook - it's all a bit b
ks really.TVR653X said:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=m...
What do the PH massive think of this? I agree with much of the sentiments. I've met some soldiers who wanted to do good, such as Matt Hatton, who was killed in Afghanistan. I was angry and annoyed that he was killed, as he was a nice guy, and genuinely wanted to bring the people of Afghanistan freedom. He was, in my eyes, a proper hero.
However, I've also met a soldier who said killing in Iraq was "ethnic cleansing, as they're a lesser race." I resisted punching him and walked away.
I also feel too many soldiers don't think about what they're doing. They CAN say "I am not fighting this war", but most don't. Iraq, is in my eyes, a huge mistake. I've formed this view after seeing the way the country has gone down the pan, and speaking to a woman who worked with me, who was from Baghdad. She told me Saddam, whilst being nasty in many ways, had to rule with an iron fist to keep the various sects and factions from killing each other.
I am not so sure about Afghanistan, I have no time for Religious Extremism of any kind, so I was glad to see them removed from power. I do feel we can't win the war though.
So, what do you guys make of this group? I just stumbled on it and found it quite interesting, and quite daring too.
I think it's group by cockends read by cockends. Now ask me one on sport.What do the PH massive think of this? I agree with much of the sentiments. I've met some soldiers who wanted to do good, such as Matt Hatton, who was killed in Afghanistan. I was angry and annoyed that he was killed, as he was a nice guy, and genuinely wanted to bring the people of Afghanistan freedom. He was, in my eyes, a proper hero.
However, I've also met a soldier who said killing in Iraq was "ethnic cleansing, as they're a lesser race." I resisted punching him and walked away.
I also feel too many soldiers don't think about what they're doing. They CAN say "I am not fighting this war", but most don't. Iraq, is in my eyes, a huge mistake. I've formed this view after seeing the way the country has gone down the pan, and speaking to a woman who worked with me, who was from Baghdad. She told me Saddam, whilst being nasty in many ways, had to rule with an iron fist to keep the various sects and factions from killing each other.
I am not so sure about Afghanistan, I have no time for Religious Extremism of any kind, so I was glad to see them removed from power. I do feel we can't win the war though.
So, what do you guys make of this group? I just stumbled on it and found it quite interesting, and quite daring too.
I had a reply all ready when I read this:
rhinochopig said:
The forces are like all walks of life - you get a proportion of tts. A hero is defined by their actions, so by default a soldier is not a hero. He/she becomes a hero by their actions, and as the number of awards won in Afghanistan and Iraq show there are a fair few who can and should be classed as heroes; just as there are a number who can be classed as scum for the acts they have perpetrated.
Couldn't agree more.ts. A hero is defined by their actions, so by default a soldier is not a hero. He/she becomes a hero by their actions, and as the number of awards won in Afghanistan and Iraq show there are a fair few who can and should be classed as heroes; just as there are a number who can be classed as scum for the acts they have perpetrated.This might have been posted elsewhere, by folks with a better grasp of things than me...
Does anybody see a (loose) comparison between Iraq and Yugoslavia? If you think about it, it's widely accepted that Tito was the force that kept all the opposng factions within the country on the same page, and after he died, it all turned to rat poo. And while Saddam was a 24k bumwipe, and much worse than Tito, a similiar disintegration occured after he was deposed.
But then....there;s no oil in Serbia, is there?
Does anybody see a (loose) comparison between Iraq and Yugoslavia? If you think about it, it's widely accepted that Tito was the force that kept all the opposng factions within the country on the same page, and after he died, it all turned to rat poo. And while Saddam was a 24k bumwipe, and much worse than Tito, a similiar disintegration occured after he was deposed.
But then....there;s no oil in Serbia, is there?
Flanders. said:
For the normal folk who don't have Facebook, would it be possible to copy the text and paste it onto here?
With pleasure, here you go!:"This group is intended to point out the absurdity of the many groups on Facebook that portray all soldiers to be heroes and shower the armed forces with unconditional praise. We believe that this is unsafe to instil in vulnerable people that anyone in a uniform is to be trusted.
Putting on a soldiers uniform does not make you a hero.
Supporters of the group generally agree that wars that our armed forces participate in at the present time and in recent years are unnecessary and unjust. Therefore we don't feel that we should be pressured into offering "support" to people fighting and killing innocent people for causes that we don't believe in.
We recognise that the government are mainly to blame but also think that members of the forces need to take responsibility for their own actions in choosing to support these causes. Soldiers have free will and the opportunity to not sign/re-sign up if they feel they are being asked to participate in an unjust war, so they also deserve a proportion of the blame if they choose to stay.
We also find it amusing how so many of those who claim to "protect our freedoms of speech" tell us to shut up, or be duffed up.
Soldiers are not heroes. They can be heroes, they can act heroically, they can do heroic things - but the act of putting on a uniform and agreeing to put your conscience in a lockbox for the next so many years does not make your life more important than others, it does not make your opinions and insights more worthy of respect than others, it does not exempt you from moral judgement. It does not make you a hero.
And we should not fall prey to hero-worship.”
http://whoviating.blogspot.com/2008/06/heroics.htm...
We have the right to peacefully protest against these groups protesting (with needless threats) against our peaceful protests against the forces!
It is a valid belief that PERSONNEL FIGHTING FOR THE COALITION IN ILLEGAL WARS, WHETHER THEY BE FROM BRITAIN, AMERICA, CANADA, AUSTRALIA OR ELSEWHERE SHOULD BE ASHAMED."
JamesM said:
I'd love to see some of those tts from that group flounce up to my mate from the Paras and start bleating thier yoghurt weaving bullst. I fking hate people like that. 
Why? Not all soldiers are heroes. I'm not saying your mate isn't, he may be a brave soldier, but he must have thought 'why am I fighting this war?'. Or are soldiers all brainwashed? Somethings are worth fighting for. I don't feel Iraq is (and I have repeatedly considered the Army as a career. My friends have tried getting me to sign up also. This is why I have such a wide view of it as I've thought about it at length). ts from that group flounce up to my mate from the Paras and start bleating thier yoghurt weaving bullst. I fking hate people like that. Fair point, but does it not annoy you that the people from that group sit and whine about our soldiers when in reality they probably know very little of what actually happens out there and are content to listen to rumors/ media sensationalism instead of actually getting the facts. My mate constantly has nightmares from his tour, a tour he went on for his mates not the government and thier goals. All so people can sit around and say how bad they are for not exercising thier free will and not going, when in reality some of our guys have no choice because if they don't thier family won't get fed.
JamesM said:
Fair point, but does it not annoy you that the people from that group sit and whine about our soldiers when in reality they probably know very little of what actually happens out there and are content to listen to rumors/ media sensationalism instead of actually getting the facts. My mate constantly has nightmares from his tour, a tour he went on for his mates not the government and thier goals. All so people can sit around and say how bad they are for not exercising thier free will and not going, when in reality some of our guys have no choice because if they don't thier family won't get fed.
Some people do jump to conclusions, it's true. I have got some more insight into it from knowing soldiers and civilians who have seen it first hand. Your last sentence sums up why I didn't join. I decided I couldn't do a job where I'd be forced into a position of having to go against my morals to survive/earn money.
JamesM said:
Fair point, but does it not annoy you that the people from that group sit and whine about our soldiers when in reality they probably know very little of what actually happens out there and are content to listen to rumors/ media sensationalism instead of actually getting the facts. My mate constantly has nightmares from his tour, a tour he went on for his mates not the government and thier goals. All so people can sit around and say how bad they are for not exercising thier free will and not going, when in reality some of our guys have no choice because if they don't thier family won't get fed.
I think the group description seems very fair, some soldiers can be heroes, none are heroes purely for being a soldier. I've not read comments others have made on the group though.Some of the things which have been shown to occur in the warzone, imo aren't excusable with the family feeding arguement. There are plenty of civilian jobs available if somebody doesn't want to be in the army.
I fully agree that we need to maintain a well trained army, though it's not a job I'd consider. However, I do think some of the recent military action had been ill judged.
Part of the issue with the army, is that by it's very nature it will attract various nutters. I met one guy on the train from Liverpool, who was due to be going away in a few days on a tour. He said he couldn't wait to get stuck into the action and start shooting. He kept going on about how his mates had killed people there and none of the locals could do anything about it etc. I'm sure that some of it was bravado, but I'd imagine there was some truth as well. It's things like this which will tarnish much of the good work the others do.
TVR653X said:
"This group is intended to point out the absurdity of the many groups on Facebook that portray all soldiers to be heroes and shower the armed forces with unconditional praise. We believe that this is unsafe to instil in vulnerable people that anyone in a uniform is to be trusted.
Putting on a soldiers uniform does not make you a hero.
Agree wholeheartedly to there. It is a really dangerous situation if we start calling all members of the armed forces heroes and basically giving them carte blanche to do what they want out there under a union jack. Don't get me wrong, the people who protest at soldier's funerals and the like are scum - I don't disagree with the right to protest, nor their point of view, but the crassness of things like that make me feel more than a little sick - protesting is one thing, rubbing it in the face of the mourning family is a step to far. What I do disagree with is that anyone who speaks out against the current military action out there gets shouted down with a torrent of "they are heroes, have some respect you fPutting on a soldiers uniform does not make you a hero.
king st, they are risking their lives for you" - that isn't democracy, its mob rule. It's the same as the poppy debate - anyone who chooses not to wear one gets lambasted. I throw my £1 in the tin along with everyone else, but there are other charities I care about and contribute to much more.
Before any of the "You wouldn't last a minute in Afghanistan you big f
king jessy" lot pipe up, I didn't say I could - that isn't the point - if you have been out there, cheers. If you are an armchair advocate, you probably wouldn't last a minute out there either.Edited to add - Haven't looked at the group, so I can't comment on what has been said on it, other than the quote posted here.
Edited by Parsnip on Sunday 17th January 10:57
Just had a quick look at the group, the basic principle sounds balanced and reasonable - that being a soldier doesn't make you a hero. That doesn't mean that all soldiers are stupid evil or ignorant of what is going on around them though. Unfortunately though the group seems to be full of extremists of one side or the other, half of them seem to be constantly banging on about how there should be no armies at all and that all soldiers are evil etc which is pretty ridiculous. The other side are all pro military fanatics spouting impenetrable text speak and are just as extreme. I can't be arsed with extremists, regardless of what side they're taking.
branflakes said:
I had a reply all ready when I read this:
+1rhinochopig said:
The forces are like all walks of life - you get a proportion of tts. A hero is defined by their actions, so by default a soldier is not a hero. He/she becomes a hero by their actions, and as the number of awards won in Afghanistan and Iraq show there are a fair few who can and should be classed as heroes; just as there are a number who can be classed as scum for the acts they have perpetrated.
Couldn't agree more.ts. A hero is defined by their actions, so by default a soldier is not a hero. He/she becomes a hero by their actions, and as the number of awards won in Afghanistan and Iraq show there are a fair few who can and should be classed as heroes; just as there are a number who can be classed as scum for the acts they have perpetrated.Couldn't have put it better myself.
I'm very supportive of the forces, but I do see where the message in that group is coming from.
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