Automatic gearbox + Trackday = ???
Discussion
Hi all,
Just wondering whether anyone here has experienced track day driving in a car with an automatic gearbox?
If so... what car was it, and how did you find it coped with the down-shifting before entering corners, balancing power mid bend, powering out, overtaking etc.
Reason being - Im looking at buying a 2nd car that will 60% be a car for my Mrs (rarely drives), 39% be a occasionaly treat for myself, 1% be a track day toy.
Im looking at BMW E36', mainly manual g/box cars, but the occasional 'straight/clean' 328i automatic version comes up that looks tempting, as Im also a sucker for a pretty car!
When it comes to track days - Im not going to be 'competing', just out there to enjoy the car/track/speed. But I will upgrade the suspension and brakes to make the most of it.
Bear in mind - I can drive a manual and an auto - Ive done a hell of a lot of miles in both, so am fairly smooth in either. I also enjoy yanking the auto gear lever through gears manually (depending on the car) so that is nothing new to me either.
So.. will an auto box get in the way of having a good laugh on the track?
Just wondering whether anyone here has experienced track day driving in a car with an automatic gearbox?
If so... what car was it, and how did you find it coped with the down-shifting before entering corners, balancing power mid bend, powering out, overtaking etc.
Reason being - Im looking at buying a 2nd car that will 60% be a car for my Mrs (rarely drives), 39% be a occasionaly treat for myself, 1% be a track day toy.
Im looking at BMW E36', mainly manual g/box cars, but the occasional 'straight/clean' 328i automatic version comes up that looks tempting, as Im also a sucker for a pretty car!
When it comes to track days - Im not going to be 'competing', just out there to enjoy the car/track/speed. But I will upgrade the suspension and brakes to make the most of it.
Bear in mind - I can drive a manual and an auto - Ive done a hell of a lot of miles in both, so am fairly smooth in either. I also enjoy yanking the auto gear lever through gears manually (depending on the car) so that is nothing new to me either.
So.. will an auto box get in the way of having a good laugh on the track?
Not sure if older BMW boxes have a "manual" over ride or "sports" mode where you can shift up and down. My wifes X5 has this option on all 6 gears and I have seen cars converted to a paddle shift system. Certainly not a manual or sequential box but better control than a standard auto would be.
How it would feel on track is questionable considering how reliant track performance is on braking and the fact that this is greatly assisted by engine braking which in turn is dependant on proper gear control.
How it would feel on track is questionable considering how reliant track performance is on braking and the fact that this is greatly assisted by engine braking which in turn is dependant on proper gear control.
I think it would probably take something away from the experience, some people don't even like the loss of a pedal and lever on paddle change cars that are designed for the job.
Also, I wonder whether a conventional auto would cope with use on the track without getting too hot......?
Steve H
Also, I wonder whether a conventional auto would cope with use on the track without getting too hot......?
Steve H
I think that the benefit of a slush box would be that you could play with left foot braking with less worry.
The auto boxes in BMWs of the vintage that you're looking at don't have a good reputation for robustness.
The auto box also takes away the dimension of hanging on to gears and using the elasticity of the engine, that you have with a manual.
The differential ratios typically supplied with auto boxes are of a high numerical ratio, which does not encourage exploitation the torque and revs of the engine.
m
The auto boxes in BMWs of the vintage that you're looking at don't have a good reputation for robustness.
The auto box also takes away the dimension of hanging on to gears and using the elasticity of the engine, that you have with a manual.
The differential ratios typically supplied with auto boxes are of a high numerical ratio, which does not encourage exploitation the torque and revs of the engine.
m
Can't stress highly enough that you need a half decent manual mode if you're going to use a slush 'box on track. It can be very disconcerting if the gearbox suddenly decides to kick down half way out of a corner or generally fails to second guess the gear you want it to be in.
I wouldn't say it's as good as a manual (or better still a proper race-style semi-auto) but an auto 'box isn't the end of the world. Still good fun and more soothing if you happen to find yourself in traffic on the trip back.
I wouldn't say it's as good as a manual (or better still a proper race-style semi-auto) but an auto 'box isn't the end of the world. Still good fun and more soothing if you happen to find yourself in traffic on the trip back.
I used my E55 on the track and whilst it wasnt as good as a manual would have been, with the flappy paddles it did give me enough control. It does have a good gearbox though with Manual, Sport and comfort.
The gearbox did not overheat, mainly because the brakes did before it got to that stage!
Used a tank and a half (100 litres) on the day, so plenty of track time, with just a half hour rest to cool the braking system down after it went into limp mode!
The gearbox did not overheat, mainly because the brakes did before it got to that stage!
Used a tank and a half (100 litres) on the day, so plenty of track time, with just a half hour rest to cool the braking system down after it went into limp mode!
Hmm - interesting feedback!
I think manual may be the way forward then.
An E55, SMG and DSG equipt cars are a bit out of budget to be honest...
I might have found a good manual candidate though... will be seeing it this weekend... so my dilemma may be over soon!
In the past I have engaged in spirited driving in my old civic 5 door hatch(1999, 1.6i 16v sohc, non-vtec, auto)... the box had the d4, d3, 2, 1 modes, so made for some entertaining driving, but I agree - the torque converter does dampen the reaction/power delivery of the engine so the extent to which you can steer on the throttle is limited. Even with such a basic car you could control the gearing well enough - down shifting the gears before corners etc... but because the box takes a second or two to react you have to brake and down shift early - which would detract from the experience a little. When shifting up through the gears manually (and using the left foot break as launch control) the little Honda did manage to shock a few cars I didnt think I could even keep with to be honest.
I did push the car hard, but I guess it was only short periods at a time so never experienced any overheating issues... Considering the abuse I gave the car when I had it, it still drives really well! 150k miles and still mechanically sound. Shame my lil sister has bashed it to bits though!
I think manual may be the way forward then.
An E55, SMG and DSG equipt cars are a bit out of budget to be honest...
I might have found a good manual candidate though... will be seeing it this weekend... so my dilemma may be over soon!
In the past I have engaged in spirited driving in my old civic 5 door hatch(1999, 1.6i 16v sohc, non-vtec, auto)... the box had the d4, d3, 2, 1 modes, so made for some entertaining driving, but I agree - the torque converter does dampen the reaction/power delivery of the engine so the extent to which you can steer on the throttle is limited. Even with such a basic car you could control the gearing well enough - down shifting the gears before corners etc... but because the box takes a second or two to react you have to brake and down shift early - which would detract from the experience a little. When shifting up through the gears manually (and using the left foot break as launch control) the little Honda did manage to shock a few cars I didnt think I could even keep with to be honest.
I did push the car hard, but I guess it was only short periods at a time so never experienced any overheating issues... Considering the abuse I gave the car when I had it, it still drives really well! 150k miles and still mechanically sound. Shame my lil sister has bashed it to bits though!
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff