Wedding togs I know youre out there..........?
Discussion
I know theres a few of you out there that do it for a living, cant put my finger on names at the moment though...
So ive got 3 seperate friends getting married this year any they have asked me do shoot them. (charged of course)
Ive been researching on photography-on-the.net but how the hell do can I practice for this sort of thing or is it a case of just jumping in feet first? (knowing that this is an important day)
How happy would you be if I approached you asking for some free assisting in return to see what the crack is? (thinging of emailing some togs in my area and asking)
Tarmuchly
P-S
Pixel-Snapper said:
I know theres a few of you out there that do it for a living, cant put my finger on names at the moment though...
So ive got 3 seperate friends getting married this year any they have asked me do shoot them. (charged of course)
Ive been researching on photography-on-the.net but how the hell do can I practice for this sort of thing or is it a case of just jumping in feet first? (knowing that this is an important day)
How happy would you be if I approached you asking for some free assisting in return to see what the crack is? (thinging of emailing some togs in my area and asking)
Tarmuchly
P-S
Sounds like the best way to no longer have 3 sets of friends!So ive got 3 seperate friends getting married this year any they have asked me do shoot them. (charged of course)
Ive been researching on photography-on-the.net but how the hell do can I practice for this sort of thing or is it a case of just jumping in feet first? (knowing that this is an important day)
How happy would you be if I approached you asking for some free assisting in return to see what the crack is? (thinging of emailing some togs in my area and asking)
Tarmuchly
P-S
They will be expecting mates rates and a perfect professional job. Dangerous ground, but I guess you have to start somewhere!
Mmmmm I kind a let myself in for that didnt I.....hehehe
Scared possibly a little but I like a challenge.
They have basically asked me to do them as they are doing it on a budget and cant afford to hire a professional photographer at a couple of grand!. They have asked me to be as informal as I like with the shots as they basically want someone that knows how to use a camera and process the final images with photochop.
As for price? well although they are friends im not going to do it for free as it will take some time to process the images after the day. But as im not a pro doing it for a living im planning on a fraction of the cost, from what ive seen the pro's charge at least £900 for a budget wedding, so im aiming at around a couple hundred quid seems fair for my efforts and time.
Hi Matthew,
Everybody has to start somewhere, and I see from your albums that you're pretty handy with a camera. However, weddings are possibly the most difficult thing you can do - I know seasoned commercial togs who would run screaming over a cliff rather than cover a wedding. Here are my thoughts:
Weddings are very important, and they are very high responsibility. Asking people to do something again because you missed it is not an option. You need to have total knowledge and control of your equipment and be able to operate it under stress whilst being polite to 100 people all at once. You need to be able to operate in all lighting conditions and change from one to the other in seconds. You need fast lenses and at least one powerful flashgun. You need to be totally focused for the whole time (pun not intended, but appropriate). You need to be able to operate discreetly but step in and direct gently if required.
Afterwards, you will have many hundreds of RAW files to process, which can take days. I adjust every image one by one because no two are the same and I don't let anything out of the door that's not as good as I can get it. Forget batch processing.
If you can take all that on, then by all means go for it. If not, then I'm not as expensive as you may think, and you can enjoy three weddings as a guest, eat drink and be merry
Everybody has to start somewhere, and I see from your albums that you're pretty handy with a camera. However, weddings are possibly the most difficult thing you can do - I know seasoned commercial togs who would run screaming over a cliff rather than cover a wedding. Here are my thoughts:
Weddings are very important, and they are very high responsibility. Asking people to do something again because you missed it is not an option. You need to have total knowledge and control of your equipment and be able to operate it under stress whilst being polite to 100 people all at once. You need to be able to operate in all lighting conditions and change from one to the other in seconds. You need fast lenses and at least one powerful flashgun. You need to be totally focused for the whole time (pun not intended, but appropriate). You need to be able to operate discreetly but step in and direct gently if required.
Afterwards, you will have many hundreds of RAW files to process, which can take days. I adjust every image one by one because no two are the same and I don't let anything out of the door that's not as good as I can get it. Forget batch processing.
If you can take all that on, then by all means go for it. If not, then I'm not as expensive as you may think, and you can enjoy three weddings as a guest, eat drink and be merry
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 20th January 16:46
Excellent advice from Simpo there.
I've only done a few weddings, but what helped me was:
- Meeting with the couple first to find out just what style they wanted;
- Agreeing what you're going to deliver (CD of JPEGs, help with album design etc);
- Agreeing what to include (preparation, arrivals, service, reception, first dance etc);
- Understanding the "must haves", (Granny who's coming from Australia);
- Visiting all the venues beforehand;
- Checking with church/register office what was allowed/not allowed;
- Having a Plan B (and C!) for if it's raining, snowing etc;
- Having two cameras;
- Having a second photographer with me.
What helped me most, was the second 'tog. I organised and did the "formals" (even when clients say they just want informal/reportage shots, they don't always mean it); while they did the "behind the scenes and "artistic" stuff.
If you know that some venues are going to be challenging (e.g. poorly lit with green walls), try to arrange a practice session there.
That all said, it's very rewarding when you get a great set of shots and see the couple really pleased. Don't underestimate the cumulative time involved in completing it all though!
I've only done a few weddings, but what helped me was:
- Meeting with the couple first to find out just what style they wanted;
- Agreeing what you're going to deliver (CD of JPEGs, help with album design etc);
- Agreeing what to include (preparation, arrivals, service, reception, first dance etc);
- Understanding the "must haves", (Granny who's coming from Australia);
- Visiting all the venues beforehand;
- Checking with church/register office what was allowed/not allowed;
- Having a Plan B (and C!) for if it's raining, snowing etc;
- Having two cameras;
- Having a second photographer with me.
What helped me most, was the second 'tog. I organised and did the "formals" (even when clients say they just want informal/reportage shots, they don't always mean it); while they did the "behind the scenes and "artistic" stuff.
If you know that some venues are going to be challenging (e.g. poorly lit with green walls), try to arrange a practice session there.
That all said, it's very rewarding when you get a great set of shots and see the couple really pleased. Don't underestimate the cumulative time involved in completing it all though!
^^^ and all that too.
I've only done one wedding where there were two togs. They booked the first one, then asked him to do reportage, but he said he didn't do that. But they'd already paid him so they got me in as well. It was very illuminating - the 'traditional' tog did all the cheesy poses perfectly well but other than that stood around looking like a fish out of water.
So Ed, you just did the easy bit then went back to the bar?
I've only done one wedding where there were two togs. They booked the first one, then asked him to do reportage, but he said he didn't do that. But they'd already paid him so they got me in as well. It was very illuminating - the 'traditional' tog did all the cheesy poses perfectly well but other than that stood around looking like a fish out of water.
So Ed, you just did the easy bit then went back to the bar?
Simpo Two said:
^^^ and all that too.
I've only done one wedding where there were two togs. They booked the first one, then asked him to do reportage, but he said he didn't do that. But they'd already paid him so they got me in as well. It was very illuminating - the 'traditional' tog did all the cheesy poses perfectly well but other than that stood around looking like a fish out of water.
So Ed, you just did the easy bit then went back to the bar?
Oh no. I've been found out!I've only done one wedding where there were two togs. They booked the first one, then asked him to do reportage, but he said he didn't do that. But they'd already paid him so they got me in as well. It was very illuminating - the 'traditional' tog did all the cheesy poses perfectly well but other than that stood around looking like a fish out of water.
So Ed, you just did the easy bit then went back to the bar?
But, fancy booking a photographer who "couldn't do" reportage, when that's what you wanted! Anyway, an opportunity for you, and perhaps he learned something too ...
Alll very very interesting stuff thanks for the time to right it up, alot to think about thats for sure.
Ive already put thought into a second tog to get the stuff i my not be able to, i have a couple of friends frm My old uni course that would be happy to lend a hand if bung em a tenner :0)
Ive already put thought into a second tog to get the stuff i my not be able to, i have a couple of friends frm My old uni course that would be happy to lend a hand if bung em a tenner :0)
As pointed out at the beginning, I'd be wary of your friends expectations. I was a guest at a friend's wedding last year, and due to budget they chose to have photographers they know (they mainly cover motorsport) to do the photos at a cheap price, rather than get a proper wedding photographer - having seen the photos afterwards, I would NEVER ever go down that route. They failed to capture the general atmosphere of the day, and all the 'little' things that someone who's photographed hundreds of weddings would pick up on.
I don't doubt you're good with a camera, but the bride and groom will be looking for spectacular memories, rather than just photographs.
I don't doubt you're good with a camera, but the bride and groom will be looking for spectacular memories, rather than just photographs.
Fordo did a thread on Wedding he was asked to do, post wedding shots and his comments maybe of use:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I've done one wedding for friends but simply as ABWC rather than anything offical, they actually preferred mine to the "stiff" pro but I guess I had more opportunity to blend in (and tbh looking back I think they were being the polite!) Hats off to you I don't think I'd have the confidence to do it
Have you thought of the old cliche of the disposable cameras on each table as a back up/bit of fun /make your shots look even better
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I've done one wedding for friends but simply as ABWC rather than anything offical, they actually preferred mine to the "stiff" pro but I guess I had more opportunity to blend in (and tbh looking back I think they were being the polite!) Hats off to you I don't think I'd have the confidence to do it
Have you thought of the old cliche of the disposable cameras on each table as a back up/bit of fun /make your shots look even better
How about this for an idea? Find a couple of christenings to practice on (offer your services for free), all the same type of stuff, guests arriving, church shots, family groups etc, but without the ridiculous pressure!
I did the christening of a friend's daughters, under duress having never done anything like it, turned out OK, but wouldn't have been the end of the world if it went wrong!
I did the christening of a friend's daughters, under duress having never done anything like it, turned out OK, but wouldn't have been the end of the world if it went wrong!
gary71 said:
How about this for an idea? Find a couple of christenings to practice on (offer your services for free), all the same type of stuff, guests arriving, church shots, family groups etc, but without the ridiculous pressure!
I did the christening of a friend's daughters, under duress having never done anything like it, turned out OK, but wouldn't have been the end of the world if it went wrong!
Mmmmmmm now theres a good idea Gary, would get me used to working in a church environment.I did the christening of a friend's daughters, under duress having never done anything like it, turned out OK, but wouldn't have been the end of the world if it went wrong!
(runs to facebook to see if friends have any coming up)
Would definitely recommend a "practise" in the church, both where ceremony is to be perfored and where register signing is to take place (for those "easy" formal shots!). If you can (on the day), get some interiors before the guests start entering, for some arty "Order of Service on pew", "light through stained-glass window" shots and of any flower arrangements etc.
Many churches won't allow flash, and high ISO settings will be required. So don't forget to dial it back down as soon as you get out. I know it's obvious, but it's easy to forget in the heat of the moment. I've done it and carried on at ISO 800 (very briefly of course), in bright daylight!
Experienced wedding photographers like John (Simpo Two) are used to the constantly changing lighting and also have a "mental image" of what a good wedding portfolio will comprise (have a look at his website for ideas). For the less experienced, I think that some pre-planning will definitely pay off.
Many churches won't allow flash, and high ISO settings will be required. So don't forget to dial it back down as soon as you get out. I know it's obvious, but it's easy to forget in the heat of the moment. I've done it and carried on at ISO 800 (very briefly of course), in bright daylight!
Experienced wedding photographers like John (Simpo Two) are used to the constantly changing lighting and also have a "mental image" of what a good wedding portfolio will comprise (have a look at his website for ideas). For the less experienced, I think that some pre-planning will definitely pay off.
Hi,
I've had a good rummage through your flickr, you're actually a contact of mine and i notice a couple of my pics in your favs.
The church idea above is a great one. I'd definately do that if i was you.
My advice is to prepare yourself very well, it's a big responsibility to take on.
What equipment do you have? Do you have a backup body/lenses/flash/memory cards should something break on the day? If not i'd certainly consider renting, perhaps this could be part of the payment from the couples?
Scout the location, can your camera cope with high ISO? I shot a wedding last year where during the speeches i could not drop below ISO3200. I'd want to have a list of possible locations, shot ideas and lighting notes in good time for the big day, but not so far ahead the season will have changed.
I notice on your flickR there is limited portrait work, even if you take a couple of friends to the park, have a go at shooting candidly, even directing them a little as this can be harder than you might think. Have shots lists prepared of groups, a good idea of what the bride and groom want, not just picture ideas but also as final products.
Some websites that i found usefull when starting out:
http://tips.romanzolin.com/articles/article006.php
http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photograp...
http://digital-photography-school.com/5-wedding-ph...
http://digital-photography-school.com/wedding-phot...
(and the best) http://www.rokkorfiles.com/Wedding101-page1.html
I'd also consider a contract, it will cover you should they be unhappy because you can deal with expectations in full before the big day. I'd doesn't have to be legal, just well written and cover what you will provide, your experience level and what they can expect from you. The last thing you'll want to hear is "...oh, we just thought that you would..."
As well as equipment being important, so is your processing and choice of printing should the need arrise. Is your monitor calibrated? Where would you print/have an album made? Important consideration that will affect the final item greatly. (I use Loxley colour for all my printing/Albums but they are trade only) Will you keep the pictures backed up (RAWW files i'm presuming hopefully) If so where? In how many locations?
I don't mean to scare you off with all this, just point out that there is much to consider and sometimes a B&G need a little education about what they're letting themselves in for if they're not photographers. I often find when i meet clients for the first time i mention things they've never considered. I wish you the best of luck and do keep up posted.
Kind regards,
Matt Stanton.
I've had a good rummage through your flickr, you're actually a contact of mine and i notice a couple of my pics in your favs.
The church idea above is a great one. I'd definately do that if i was you.
My advice is to prepare yourself very well, it's a big responsibility to take on.
What equipment do you have? Do you have a backup body/lenses/flash/memory cards should something break on the day? If not i'd certainly consider renting, perhaps this could be part of the payment from the couples?
Scout the location, can your camera cope with high ISO? I shot a wedding last year where during the speeches i could not drop below ISO3200. I'd want to have a list of possible locations, shot ideas and lighting notes in good time for the big day, but not so far ahead the season will have changed.
I notice on your flickR there is limited portrait work, even if you take a couple of friends to the park, have a go at shooting candidly, even directing them a little as this can be harder than you might think. Have shots lists prepared of groups, a good idea of what the bride and groom want, not just picture ideas but also as final products.
Some websites that i found usefull when starting out:
http://tips.romanzolin.com/articles/article006.php
http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photograp...
http://digital-photography-school.com/5-wedding-ph...
http://digital-photography-school.com/wedding-phot...
(and the best) http://www.rokkorfiles.com/Wedding101-page1.html
I'd also consider a contract, it will cover you should they be unhappy because you can deal with expectations in full before the big day. I'd doesn't have to be legal, just well written and cover what you will provide, your experience level and what they can expect from you. The last thing you'll want to hear is "...oh, we just thought that you would..."
As well as equipment being important, so is your processing and choice of printing should the need arrise. Is your monitor calibrated? Where would you print/have an album made? Important consideration that will affect the final item greatly. (I use Loxley colour for all my printing/Albums but they are trade only) Will you keep the pictures backed up (RAWW files i'm presuming hopefully) If so where? In how many locations?
I don't mean to scare you off with all this, just point out that there is much to consider and sometimes a B&G need a little education about what they're letting themselves in for if they're not photographers. I often find when i meet clients for the first time i mention things they've never considered. I wish you the best of luck and do keep up posted.
Kind regards,
Matt Stanton.
I just realised i didn't answer the last part of your question.
Personally i'd have no problem having you assist for free, although i already have a second i use where required. That means you carry equipment and assist with lighting, arranging group formals and if possible get to shoot where i wouldn't require you. don't be surprised if a photographer who lets you do this does not allow you to use the pictures in any way, ie flickR, to promote yourself etc but if nothing else doing this would serve to give you a good feel for the flow of the day as once they start it's pretty much non stop and things can happen fast.
Regards,
Matt Stanton.
Personally i'd have no problem having you assist for free, although i already have a second i use where required. That means you carry equipment and assist with lighting, arranging group formals and if possible get to shoot where i wouldn't require you. don't be surprised if a photographer who lets you do this does not allow you to use the pictures in any way, ie flickR, to promote yourself etc but if nothing else doing this would serve to give you a good feel for the flow of the day as once they start it's pretty much non stop and things can happen fast.
Regards,
Matt Stanton.
Ed_P said:
Would definitely recommend a "practise" in the church, both where ceremony is to be perfored and where register signing is to take place (for those "easy" formal shots!).
The biggest problem there is lighting - you can't bounce it in a church so it's either ambient light or direct (albeit fill) flash, neither of which is ideal - but it's a church not a studio so you just have to do your best. The vicar will give you a nod when he's ready, and you probably won't be allowed to photograph the actual register, but a dummy will be provided. This is the first time you've met the couple as married, so it's a good time to congratulate them and shake them by the paw. After you're happy with the 'couple' shots, you can ask them if they want some more with witnesses, parents etc.After that you have to be ready to pack up PDQ (but quietly, and don't forget the tripod if you used one) and leg it (quietly!) down to the other end for one of the toughest shots of the day, 'coming down the aisle'. Lighting is diabolical and you can't do it twice. Don't get caught at the wrong end of the church, and have your route ready - avoid the central aisle if at all possible. Hope that a guest with camcorder doesn't jump out in front and block your view - this happened once to me last year and I wanted to shout 'Oi!', but you just have to smile and work round it.
Don't drop lenscaps, they make an awful lot of noise on a stone floor! One reason why I don't use them - just more clutter to slow you down, drop or lose.
Ed_P said:
high ISO settings will be required. So don't forget to dial it back down as soon as you get out. I know it's obvious, but it's easy to forget in the heat of the moment. I've done it and carried on at ISO 800 (very briefly of course), in bright daylight!
So have I - wedding number two in fact. It took me a few shots to figure out why, once outside in full sun, they looked like an atom bomb had gone off. This is why you need to keep calm and know your gear and the settings you're on. In some situations you may find that suddenly your photo is 2+ stops undexposed - you have to figure out why and correct it if at all possible, because trying to recover shadows from 2 stops down is a recipe for noise. For example: low ISO indoors, range too great for flash, flash batteries dying, aperture too small, left on spot metering - light is always the biggest battle. Nikons have an interesting one where if you use spot metering, you can't have fill-flash, so leaving it on spot when... well you get the idea...
Ed_P said:
Experienced wedding photographers like John (Simpo Two) are used to the constantly changing lighting and also have a "mental image" of what a good wedding portfolio will comprise (have a look at his website for ideas).
That's kind of you, and there are certain things and key points that are common to most weddings, but I make most of it up as I go along, always looking for new angles and anticipating movements. No two weddings are ever the same, and if I ever start thinking that, it will be time to retire!At this point let us remember the late Perkins. [i]'I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war. Get up in a crate, Perkins, pop over to Bremen, take a shufti, don't come back. Goodbye, Perkins. God, I wish I was going too.'[i/]
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 21st January 10:41
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