BEGi 1600 coldside
Discussion
wasn't aware these even existed until just now
what do people think? i've been looking at SC's for a while, though nothing much more than the jackson racing kit seemed to exist
i know it comes with no fuelling/ignition etc. as opposed to the JRSC kit's powercard but starting off with an MP62 coldside rather than M45 hot seems a better idea...
how well do non IC'd setups work? i like the idea of a coldside with short intake for its throttle response but it seems silly if a small turbo could do more for the same money
what do people think? i've been looking at SC's for a while, though nothing much more than the jackson racing kit seemed to exist
i know it comes with no fuelling/ignition etc. as opposed to the JRSC kit's powercard but starting off with an MP62 coldside rather than M45 hot seems a better idea...
how well do non IC'd setups work? i like the idea of a coldside with short intake for its throttle response but it seems silly if a small turbo could do more for the same money
that's reassuring, i'd rather settle with a lower output but crisp response and bombproof setup. my last car had a filter stuffed on the end of the throttle body, and makes my 5 with standard induction (bar cone) feel like it's got the pickup of a diesel in comparison.
could you get away with simpler fuel/ignition setup with a non IC lower output car? or would it still suffer from poor economy and driveability like higher power IC'd stuff?
could you get away with simpler fuel/ignition setup with a non IC lower output car? or would it still suffer from poor economy and driveability like higher power IC'd stuff?
There are loads of options other than JR products (albeit some are 1.8 only)
Search Miata net for:
BRP / Stage One Tuning
Begi
FFS
Kraftwerks / Rotrex
However I run a BRP 1.8 Coldside and I've had most of the other SC and Turbo options and I think its the best.
However I wouldn't have paid the almost £1000 over the cost of the JRSC that they wanted when it was new (and its no longer available)
Search Miata net for:
BRP / Stage One Tuning
Begi
FFS
Kraftwerks / Rotrex
However I run a BRP 1.8 Coldside and I've had most of the other SC and Turbo options and I think its the best.
However I wouldn't have paid the almost £1000 over the cost of the JRSC that they wanted when it was new (and its no longer available)
The BRP/Stage One Tuning supercharger is still available but now it's being sold by Flyin Miata
MX-5 Lazza said:
The BRP/Stage One Tuning supercharger is still available but now it's being sold by Flyin Miata
Actually you can now order direct from Stage One.But I was refering to the BRP Coldside which isn't available (although the FFS MP62 is effectively "BRP Coldside 2" )
Fair enough - your post looked like you were saying BRP superchargers were no longer available.
I have driven a coldside M45 1.8 and while it wasn't particularly quick (around 160bhp I think) it was a lovely drive, very smooth and very quick throttle response. I think my TDR Intercooled MP62 has just as good throttle response now I have the dual throttle kit though and I have the advantage of being capable of much higher boost levels so therefore more power
I have driven a coldside M45 1.8 and while it wasn't particularly quick (around 160bhp I think) it was a lovely drive, very smooth and very quick throttle response. I think my TDR Intercooled MP62 has just as good throttle response now I have the dual throttle kit though and I have the advantage of being capable of much higher boost levels so therefore more power
Ah but using the power to penis analogy...
130bhp = 6" its what most have and it works well enough.
200bhp = 9" its great and everyone's happy
240bhp+ = 24" it seems fantastic but where the hell can you use it to its full potential ?
Mine is actually round 210 and I don't want any more for a road car it throws the back around at will and 100mph + on A roads is too easy.
In fact the way the speed limits and enforcement are I'm considering getting a classic car as 50mph on an open country road just isn't going to happen in my 5.
I would also mention to the OP that a JRSC is a great addition and transforms the std car - it feels like a 2.5 litre - most who decry them have either never had one or had a poorly set up one.
130bhp = 6" its what most have and it works well enough.
200bhp = 9" its great and everyone's happy
240bhp+ = 24" it seems fantastic but where the hell can you use it to its full potential ?
Mine is actually round 210 and I don't want any more for a road car it throws the back around at will and 100mph + on A roads is too easy.
In fact the way the speed limits and enforcement are I'm considering getting a classic car as 50mph on an open country road just isn't going to happen in my 5.
I would also mention to the OP that a JRSC is a great addition and transforms the std car - it feels like a 2.5 litre - most who decry them have either never had one or had a poorly set up one.
I agree 100%. The amount of power I have at the moment is way more than is needed and I can go from zero to very illegal in about 5-6 seconds if I want to.
However, I'm not a flat-out-everywhere type of driver. I have a degree of restraint and really enjoy the amount of torque I have in the mid-range. I can more or less leave it in 6th from about 25mph and drive like a lazy bast**d. Considering how many "boring" family cars now have well over 200bhp I can only assume that that is the way most people like to drive anyway otherwise it would be dangerous to go anywhere near a road
Of course once I get the car on track all of that power is put to very good use
However, I'm not a flat-out-everywhere type of driver. I have a degree of restraint and really enjoy the amount of torque I have in the mid-range. I can more or less leave it in 6th from about 25mph and drive like a lazy bast**d. Considering how many "boring" family cars now have well over 200bhp I can only assume that that is the way most people like to drive anyway otherwise it would be dangerous to go anywhere near a road
Of course once I get the car on track all of that power is put to very good use
Sorry, forgot to mention, i was so surprised to see the BEGi kit as i have a 1989 NA 1600 hence wasn't aware of much other than the JRSC
MX-5 Lazza said:
IMO a cold-side kit has no advantage over a hot-side kit with dual throttles (the stock throttle stays in place with a 2nd throttle behind the SC).
The hot-side does have a number of advantages though.
the advantage here, though that there are no MK1 1600 MP62 kits, let alone coldside ones? i hear a lot that 200 hp is getting to the end of what the MP45 can do, surely an MP62 is a better proposition as it'll be worked less for the same output, and being coldside, intake volume is kept to a minimum?The hot-side does have a number of advantages though.
just email the chap, you're right, i can't see any listings for mk1 cars at all
i'm not discounting a JRSC, it's just with (apparently) 135 ponies i'd prob want a bit more than the 160hp (obviously the torque increase would be substantial though) the basic kit offers
i assume a bit more could be squeezed from a non IC'd MP62 coldside kit using something like powercard?
i'm not discounting a JRSC, it's just with (apparently) 135 ponies i'd prob want a bit more than the 160hp (obviously the torque increase would be substantial though) the basic kit offers
i assume a bit more could be squeezed from a non IC'd MP62 coldside kit using something like powercard?
MX-5 Lazza said:
From what I've seen most people with cold side set-ups seem to struggle to make any real power, especially when compared to a hot side with the same pulley ratios (so, in theory, running the same boost).
IIRC the BRP CS gained approx 20 bhp on a JRSC.I can't remember the FFS figures - but the FFS 1.6 kit was a hot side kit.
MX-5 Lazza said:
From what I've seen most people with cold side set-ups seem to struggle to make any real power, especially when compared to a hot side with the same pulley ratios (so, in theory, running the same boost).
why is that then? with the ratio's/boost it must come down to plenum effect of longer intake distances? badly fabb'd replacement inlets?just got this back from Tom, appears there never was one?
Tom Van Dan Elzen said:
Tom Van Dan Elzen [Tom@FastForwardSuperchargers.com]
Thu 21/01/2010 17:23
RE: MK1 1989 1.6 Coldside Kits
We are mounting the prototype on the car today. Should have data by the end of next week. We expect 175WHP minimum with, of course, our stock like drivability. $3695 plus shipping.
It has been awhile coming. Sorry for the delays.
Tom
Tom Van Dan Elzen
KnackToys, LLC
Fast Forward Superchargers
1217 W. Central Ave.
Coolidge, AZ 85228
Cell: 480-993-5105
FAX: 520-723-7271
www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com
Thu 21/01/2010 17:23
RE: MK1 1989 1.6 Coldside Kits
We are mounting the prototype on the car today. Should have data by the end of next week. We expect 175WHP minimum with, of course, our stock like drivability. $3695 plus shipping.
It has been awhile coming. Sorry for the delays.
Tom
Tom Van Dan Elzen
KnackToys, LLC
Fast Forward Superchargers
1217 W. Central Ave.
Coolidge, AZ 85228
Cell: 480-993-5105
FAX: 520-723-7271
www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com
OnlyMX5ives said:
MX-5 Lazza said:
From what I've seen most people with cold side set-ups seem to struggle to make any real power, especially when compared to a hot side with the same pulley ratios (so, in theory, running the same boost).
IIRC the BRP CS gained approx 20 bhp on a JRSC.I can't remember the FFS figures - but the FFS 1.6 kit was a hot side kit.
Edited by OnlyMX5ives on Thursday 21st January 18:15
OnlyMX5ives said:
The only advantage Hot sides have is that you can add an intercooler easily (they also tend to be cheaper and easier to fit).
However you can simply add water injection to coldsides.
And a hotside flows *way* better. IMO no-one has mounted a coldside the proper way.....The extra power from the JRSC to JRSC CS is due to the fact that you run a 150mm crank over a 130mm crank by moving it to the alternator pulley.However you can simply add water injection to coldsides.
Personally I wouldn't touch a BEGi with a barge pole. That manifold will likely crack, Corky readily admits this is a punt rather than serious engineering. I get the feeling it's a poke in the eye to FFS. My choice would be a GT2554R for a 1600.
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