lets talk roll cages

[slideways]

I would like to look at getting a full rollcage for the chimaera, the sort of thing that Cerberas have but one that is not too intrusive in the cabin. i have done a search and and found a couple but to be honest they look a bit unwealdy.
so has any one done any reasearch into this subject?
Pictures would be great if you have them.



Thanks
Slideways


P.S does anyone know the correct offsets for spiders on a chimaera

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:04

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:08

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 19:57

[APMAUTO]

slideways said:

I would like to look at getting a full rollcage for the chimaera, the sort of thing that Cerberas have but one that is not too intrusive in the cabin. i have done a search and and found a couple but to be honest they look a bit unwealdy.
so has any one done any reasearch into this subject?
Pictures would be great if you have them.



Thanks
Slideway


P.S does anyone know the correct offsets for spiders on a chimaera

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:04

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:08

try speaking to andy robinson at www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk one of the best fabricators in the uk did our cage in the gt cup cerbera and also made suspension parts we needed,heavily into drag racing so you wont find safer or better!

regards andy(APM)

[heightswitch]

APMAUTO said:

slideways said:

I would like to look at getting a full rollcage for the chimaera, the sort of thing that Cerberas have but one that is not too intrusive in the cabin. i have done a search and and found a couple but to be honest they look a bit unwealdy.
so has any one done any reasearch into this subject?
Pictures would be great if you have them.



Thanks
Slideway


P.S does anyone know the correct offsets for spiders on a chimaera

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:04

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:08

try speaking to andy robinson at www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk one of the best fabricators in the uk did our cage in the gt cup cerbera and also made suspension parts we needed,heavily into drag racing so you wont find safer or better!

regards andy(APM)

I hate posts like this one.

are you going to race?
Are you going to use 4 / 6 point harnesses and a helmet?

a cage has to be built to a spec and generic minimum design then certified. This is a lot diferent to putting some tubes in a road car that won't save your life in a crash and may well end it prematurely.

Andy robinson is one of many good fabricators out there who can install a custom made cage for you but a cage should always be used in conjunction with the other 2 items. You need to be very specific with what you mean by "intrusive"

N.

[slideways]

heightswitch said:

APMAUTO said:

slideways said:

I would like to look at getting a full rollcage for the chimaera, the sort of thing that Cerberas have but one that is not too intrusive in the cabin. i have done a search and and found a couple but to be honest they look a bit unwealdy.
so has any one done any reasearch into this subject?
Pictures would be great if you have them.



Thanks
Slideway


P.S does anyone know the correct offsets for spiders on a chimaera

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:04

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:08

try speaking to andy robinson at www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk one of the best fabricators in the uk did our cage in the gt cup cerbera and also made suspension parts we needed,heavily into drag racing so you wont find safer or better!

regards andy(APM)

Thanks Andy i will take a look.



I hate posts like this one.

are you going to race?
Are you going to use 4 / 6 point harnesses and a helmet?

a cage has to be built to a spec and generic minimum design then certified. This is a lot diferent to putting some tubes in a road car that won't save your life in a crash and may well end it prematurely.

Andy robinson is one of many good fabricators out there who can install a custom made cage for you but a cage should always be used in conjunction with the other 2 items. You need to be very specific with what you mean by "intrusive"

N.

I dont see why you would hate posts like this??
the whole point of the post is to discuss options, the fact that i stated rollcage should tell you i'm not after the usual bar that may not stand up in a roll as the screen could collapse,
i will want to track the car but probably not full on race as it is a road car
and will use a 4 point harness,
the comment on intrusiveness was aimed at still being able to get in and out of the car without being hudini

[heightswitch]

slideways said:

heightswitch said:

APMAUTO said:

slideways said:

I would like to look at getting a full rollcage for the chimaera, the sort of thing that Cerberas have but one that is not too intrusive in the cabin. i have done a search and and found a couple but to be honest they look a bit unwealdy.
so has any one done any reasearch into this subject?
Pictures would be great if you have them.



Thanks
Slideway


P.S does anyone know the correct offsets for spiders on a chimaera

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:04

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:08

try speaking to andy robinson at www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk one of the best fabricators in the uk did our cage in the gt cup cerbera and also made suspension parts we needed,heavily into drag racing so you wont find safer or better!

regards andy(APM)

Thanks Andy i will take a look.



I hate posts like this one.

are you going to race?
Are you going to use 4 / 6 point harnesses and a helmet?

a cage has to be built to a spec and generic minimum design then certified. This is a lot diferent to putting some tubes in a road car that won't save your life in a crash and may well end it prematurely.

Andy robinson is one of many good fabricators out there who can install a custom made cage for you but a cage should always be used in conjunction with the other 2 items. You need to be very specific with what you mean by "intrusive"

N.

I dont see why you would hate posts like this??
the whole point of the post is to discuss options, the fact that i stated rollcage should tell you i'm not after the usual bar that may not stand up in a roll as the screen could collapse,
i will want to track the car but probably not full on race as it is a road car
and will use a 4 point harness,
the comment on intrusiveness was aimed at still being able to get in and out of the car without being hudini

What I mean is that a road car with a cage installed and driven by a bloke without a lid is more likely to kill its occupant in a crash than a car without a cage. cages are a system designed to work with a driver that cannot move about and also a driver with a lid protecting his head from damage. if you are building a compromise car which is part road and part competition then fair enough which is what I meant by being desctiptive of "intrusive" A cage built to look neat in a road car may not actually be very good at what a cage is supposed to be installed for in a race car.

How many road cars have you rolled?
As an alternative thought how many times have you been involved in a rear end shunt minor bump etc but remained in the upright position. Its all well and good building the compromise car for the odd track day but if you drive said car on road more than you track it then you should be considering whether you are putting yourself at greater risk due to the imbalance in frequency of track / road driving?

[slideways]

heightswitch said:

slideways said:

heightswitch said:

APMAUTO said:

slideways said:

I would like to look at getting a full rollcage for the chimaera, the sort of thing that Cerberas have but one that is not too intrusive in the cabin. i have done a search and and found a couple but to be honest they look a bit unwealdy.
so has any one done any reasearch into this subject?
Pictures would be great if you have them.



Thanks
Slideway


P.S does anyone know the correct offsets for spiders on a chimaera

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:04

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:08

try speaking to andy robinson at www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk one of the best fabricators in the uk did our cage in the gt cup cerbera and also made suspension parts we needed,heavily into drag racing so you wont find safer or better!

regards andy(APM)

Thanks Andy i will take a look.



I hate posts like this one.

are you going to race?
Are you going to use 4 / 6 point harnesses and a helmet?

a cage has to be built to a spec and generic minimum design then certified. This is a lot diferent to putting some tubes in a road car that won't save your life in a crash and may well end it prematurely.

Andy robinson is one of many good fabricators out there who can install a custom made cage for you but a cage should always be used in conjunction with the other 2 items. You need to be very specific with what you mean by "intrusive"

N.

I dont see why you would hate posts like this??
the whole point of the post is to discuss options, the fact that i stated rollcage should tell you i'm not after the usual bar that may not stand up in a roll as the screen could collapse,
i will want to track the car but probably not full on race as it is a road car
and will use a 4 point harness,
the comment on intrusiveness was aimed at still being able to get in and out of the car without being hudini

What I mean is that a road car with a cage installed and driven by a bloke without a lid is more likely to kill its occupant in a crash than a car without a cage. cages are a system designed to work with a driver that cannot move about and also a driver with a lid protecting his head from damage. if you are building a compromise car which is part road and part competition then fair enough which is what I meant by being desctiptive of "intrusive" A cage built to look neat in a road car may not actually be very good at what a cage is supposed to be installed for in a race car.

How many road cars have you rolled?
As an alternative thought how many times have you been involved in a rear end shunt minor bump etc but remained in the upright position. Its all well and good building the compromise car for the odd track day but if you drive said car on road more than you track it then you should be considering whether you are putting yourself at greater risk due to the imbalance in frequency of track / road driving?

All fair comments! a friend of mine sustained some brain damage after a track day, driving home the steering went and he came off the motorway and rolled down a bank the hit a tree he was obviously not wareing a helmet on the way home, it was in a caterham with a full cage and harness.
the cage undoubtedly saved his life but could also have killed him in the process.

where i am coming from is something to stop total collapse if the worst should happen but not kill you in a normal accident senario. if that makes scence?

[heightswitch]

slideways said:

heightswitch said:

slideways said:

heightswitch said:

APMAUTO said:

slideways said:

I would like to look at getting a full rollcage for the chimaera, the sort of thing that Cerberas have but one that is not too intrusive in the cabin. i have done a search and and found a couple but to be honest they look a bit unwealdy.
so has any one done any reasearch into this subject?
Pictures would be great if you have them.



Thanks
Slideway


P.S does anyone know the correct offsets for spiders on a chimaera

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:04

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:08

try speaking to andy robinson at www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk one of the best fabricators in the uk did our cage in the gt cup cerbera and also made suspension parts we needed,heavily into drag racing so you wont find safer or better!

regards andy(APM)

Thanks Andy i will take a look.



I hate posts like this one.

are you going to race?
Are you going to use 4 / 6 point harnesses and a helmet?

a cage has to be built to a spec and generic minimum design then certified. This is a lot diferent to putting some tubes in a road car that won't save your life in a crash and may well end it prematurely.

Andy robinson is one of many good fabricators out there who can install a custom made cage for you but a cage should always be used in conjunction with the other 2 items. You need to be very specific with what you mean by "intrusive"

N.

I dont see why you would hate posts like this??
the whole point of the post is to discuss options, the fact that i stated rollcage should tell you i'm not after the usual bar that may not stand up in a roll as the screen could collapse,
i will want to track the car but probably not full on race as it is a road car
and will use a 4 point harness,
the comment on intrusiveness was aimed at still being able to get in and out of the car without being hudini

What I mean is that a road car with a cage installed and driven by a bloke without a lid is more likely to kill its occupant in a crash than a car without a cage. cages are a system designed to work with a driver that cannot move about and also a driver with a lid protecting his head from damage. if you are building a compromise car which is part road and part competition then fair enough which is what I meant by being desctiptive of "intrusive" A cage built to look neat in a road car may not actually be very good at what a cage is supposed to be installed for in a race car.

How many road cars have you rolled?
As an alternative thought how many times have you been involved in a rear end shunt minor bump etc but remained in the upright position. Its all well and good building the compromise car for the odd track day but if you drive said car on road more than you track it then you should be considering whether you are putting yourself at greater risk due to the imbalance in frequency of track / road driving?

All fair comments! a friend of mine sustained some brain damage after a track day, driving home the steering went and he came off the motorway and rolled down a bank the hit a tree he was obviously not wareing a helmet on the way home, it was in a caterham with a full cage and harness.
the cage undoubtedly saved his life but could also have killed him in the process.

where i am coming from is something to stop total collapse if the worst should happen but not kill you in a normal accident senario. if that makes scence?

My recommendation is not to fit one.

If you are tracking your car you are essentially driving alone on a track and passing people in a safe controlled manner. All your cage is going to do in your road car is make you slower because they are heavy.

A cage in a chim or griff which retains the roof will certainly be very close to your head. a door bar will be very low to allow you access which also means it will have diminished purpose. top rails built to remain in a roof will skim your tempral lobe. you will find that any decent fabricator will refuse to make what you want. because what you want will not save your life in a crash

My view is that you have a road or a race car but not both.

A road car with compromised race bits is possibly dangerous.
A road car with a fully trimmed cage built into the structure would be prohibitavely expensive

at the end of the day it is your car and you are free to do what you want but in my opinion a compromise cage in a compromise car will only do both things worse than going one way or another.

I know Andy Race has a road registered race griff so he would be your first call to look at what he has done. i am pretty sure he will have a similar opinion to mine though that the use of the car is foremost.

A good friend of mine had to examine a TVR to assist the police after a survivable rear end shunt cause the death of the Drivers daughter who was a passenger at the time of the accident. The cause was the daughters head being thrown back into the cage.

This is why I have such strong opinion on race cages and road cars which become neither one thing or another.

N

[slideways]

heightswitch said:

slideways said:

heightswitch said:

slideways said:

heightswitch said:

APMAUTO said:

slideways said:

I would like to look at getting a full rollcage for the chimaera, the sort of thing that Cerberas have but one that is not too intrusive in the cabin. i have done a search and and found a couple but to be honest they look a bit unwealdy.
so has any one done any reasearch into this subject?
Pictures would be great if you have them.



Thanks
Slideway


P.S does anyone know the correct offsets for spiders on a chimaera

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:04

Edited by slideways on Friday 22 January 16:08

try speaking to andy robinson at www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk one of the best fabricators in the uk did our cage in the gt cup cerbera and also made suspension parts we needed,heavily into drag racing so you wont find safer or better!

regards andy(APM)

Thanks Andy i will take a look.



I hate posts like this one.

are you going to race?
Are you going to use 4 / 6 point harnesses and a helmet?

a cage has to be built to a spec and generic minimum design then certified. This is a lot diferent to putting some tubes in a road car that won't save your life in a crash and may well end it prematurely.

Andy robinson is one of many good fabricators out there who can install a custom made cage for you but a cage should always be used in conjunction with the other 2 items. You need to be very specific with what you mean by "intrusive"

N.

I dont see why you would hate posts like this??
the whole point of the post is to discuss options, the fact that i stated rollcage should tell you i'm not after the usual bar that may not stand up in a roll as the screen could collapse,
i will want to track the car but probably not full on race as it is a road car
and will use a 4 point harness,
the comment on intrusiveness was aimed at still being able to get in and out of the car without being hudini

What I mean is that a road car with a cage installed and driven by a bloke without a lid is more likely to kill its occupant in a crash than a car without a cage. cages are a system designed to work with a driver that cannot move about and also a driver with a lid protecting his head from damage. if you are building a compromise car which is part road and part competition then fair enough which is what I meant by being desctiptive of "intrusive" A cage built to look neat in a road car may not actually be very good at what a cage is supposed to be installed for in a race car.

How many road cars have you rolled?
As an alternative thought how many times have you been involved in a rear end shunt minor bump etc but remained in the upright position. Its all well and good building the compromise car for the odd track day but if you drive said car on road more than you track it then you should be considering whether you are putting yourself at greater risk due to the imbalance in frequency of track / road driving?

All fair comments! a friend of mine sustained some brain damage after a track day, driving home the steering went and he came off the motorway and rolled down a bank the hit a tree he was obviously not wareing a helmet on the way home, it was in a caterham with a full cage and harness.
the cage undoubtedly saved his life but could also have killed him in the process.

where i am coming from is something to stop total collapse if the worst should happen but not kill you in a normal accident senario. if that makes scence?

My recommendation is not to fit one.

If you are tracking your car you are essentially driving alone on a track and passing people in a safe controlled manner. All your cage is going to do in your road car is make you slower because they are heavy.

A cage in a chim or griff which retains the roof will certainly be very close to your head. a door bar will be very low to allow you access which also means it will have diminished purpose. top rails built to remain in a roof will skim your tempral lobe. you will find that any decent fabricator will refuse to make what you want. because what you want will not save your life in a crash

My view is that you have a road or a race car but not both.

A road car with compromised race bits is possibly dangerous.
A road car with a fully trimmed cage built into the structure would be prohibitavely expensive

at the end of the day it is your car and you are free to do what you want but in my opinion a compromise cage in a compromise car will only do both things worse than going one way or another.

I know Andy Race has a road registered race griff so he would be your first call to look at what he has done. i am pretty sure he will have a similar opinion to mine though that the use of the car is foremost.

A good friend of mine had to examine a TVR to assist the police after a survivable rear end shunt cause the death of the Drivers daughter who was a passenger at the time of the accident. The cause was the daughters head being thrown back into the cage.

This is why I have such strong opinion on race cages and road cars which become neither one thing or another.

N

Thanks for your comments i will take all that on board

[Chimjunkie]

Think it was this very topic that convinced me to move on to a tuned up Lotus Elise. Have modified my chim to handle well enough to keep up with supercharged exiges round both slow and fast circuits, but felt i needed more protection. The cage issue crossed my mind, but felt it would then not be much fun as a road car.

[jfjfjf2]

Try www.therollcagepeople.com in Frome, Somerset.

Julian

[Bluebottle]

heightswitch said:

Some thought provoking stuff...

The comments on this thread have made me "think" about fitting a roll cage in a slightly different light.
I use me car on and off track and my daughters are regular occupants when used on the road. I am lucky being a short arse as the roll bar won't be an issue for me, but it may for my passengers
Julian above has posted a link to RollCage which do give you some level of "best of Both world" as everything forward of the main rear roll hoop is fitted with tube clamps and can be easily removed for road use. but you still have the issue of the rear hoop being perminant

Edited by Bluebottle on Saturday 23 January 19:12

[heightswitch]

Bluebottle said:

heightswitch said:

Some thought provoking stuff...

The comments on this thread have made me "think" about fitting a roll cage in a slightly different light.
I use me car on and off track and my daughters are regular occupants when used on the road. I am lucky being a short arse as the roll bar won't be an issue for me, but it may for my passengers
Julian above has posted a link to RollCage which do give you some level of "best of Both world" as everything forward of the main rear roll hoop is fitted with tube clamps and can be easily removed for road use. but you still have the issue of the rear hoop being perminant

Edited by Bluebottle on Saturday 23 January 19:12

That wouldn't be a option. The cage pictured is constructed to blue book regulations with an additional pair of doorbars. it is missing a front brace which in a true race car would fit between the front legs under the dash.

The tubes have std approved welded u brackets. one is welded to the hoop and one is welded to the leg. if you removed the legs you would have a rear hoop with 2 pointy u bracket halves welded to it ready to impale your head. This is why you fit either a rear hoop only. Or a full cage.

N.

[Bluebottle]

Yeah i guess you're right. I think i'll stick resking my own neck rather than others