undertile heating?
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Nano2nd

Original Poster:

3,426 posts

274 months

Thursday 28th January 2010
quotequote all
anyone got any experience of undertile heating? either using it or fitting it?

i'm redoing my bathroom and having floor tiles fitted, previously it was laminate. I'm considering undertile heating, no so much for the "heat" more for the making the tiles not freezing cold in the mornings;)

i'm fitting a nice pair of stainless rads, so the heating part of it is irrelevant, just wondered what peoples thoughts were? (my tile is happy to lay the element) i just need to sort the connection out

Spudler

3,985 posts

214 months

Thursday 28th January 2010
quotequote all
Can recomend these. Make sure you get a qualified spark to connect.
http://www.warmup.co.uk/

B17NNS

18,506 posts

265 months

Thursday 28th January 2010
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I've had it in bathrooms, kitchens and conservatories. Definitely worth it, makes walking around barefoot a pleasure.

I used these www.thefloorheatingwarehouse.co.uk and installed myself (other than the electrical connections).

blueg33

42,500 posts

242 months

Thursday 28th January 2010
quotequote all
Spudler said:
Can recomend these. Make sure you get a qualified spark to connect.
http://www.warmup.co.uk/
Have this in the ensuite, its very good. Make sure you get the digital controller and a competant person to fit it, preferably someone who has done it before.

It transforms the bathroom. I would have no hesitation in fitting it again

mrmaggit

10,146 posts

266 months

Thursday 28th January 2010
quotequote all
I'm going to be putting a Polypipe water system in the kitchen in a few weeks time. I'll let you know how I get on.

Nano2nd

Original Poster:

3,426 posts

274 months

Friday 29th January 2010
quotequote all
thanks guys, my local place does the warmup stuff

why do i need a sparky to connect it up?

blueg33

42,500 posts

242 months

Friday 29th January 2010
quotequote all
Nano2nd said:
thanks guys, my local place does the warmup stuff

why do i need a sparky to connect it up?
Well for a start current building regs say that a qualified sparky has to to electical work. But for me the reason was that if it doesnt work properrly you have a whole tiled floor to lift and I like to have someone to blame.


Nano2nd

Original Poster:

3,426 posts

274 months

Friday 29th January 2010
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
Nano2nd said:
thanks guys, my local place does the warmup stuff

why do i need a sparky to connect it up?
Well for a start current building regs say that a qualified sparky has to to electical work. But for me the reason was that if it doesnt work properrly you have a whole tiled floor to lift and I like to have someone to blame.
fair enough about the blame thing wink

i thought the regs were electric can only be done my a competant (not neccessaryly qualified) person? or has that changed now?

blueg33

42,500 posts

242 months

Friday 29th January 2010
quotequote all
Nano2nd said:
blueg33 said:
Nano2nd said:
thanks guys, my local place does the warmup stuff

why do i need a sparky to connect it up?
Well for a start current building regs say that a qualified sparky has to to electical work. But for me the reason was that if it doesnt work properrly you have a whole tiled floor to lift and I like to have someone to blame.
fair enough about the blame thing wink

i thought the regs were electric can only be done my a competant (not neccessaryly qualified) person? or has that changed now?
You may be right on the regs thing.

TVR1

5,470 posts

243 months

Friday 29th January 2010
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
Nano2nd said:
blueg33 said:
Nano2nd said:
thanks guys, my local place does the warmup stuff

why do i need a sparky to connect it up?
Well for a start current building regs say that a qualified sparky has to to electical work. But for me the reason was that if it doesnt work properrly you have a whole tiled floor to lift and I like to have someone to blame.
fair enough about the blame thing wink

i thought the regs were electric can only be done my a competant (not neccessaryly qualified) person? or has that changed now?
You may be right on the regs thing.
On a small note, the actual UFH cable can be fitted by yourself (if you feel ok with it) or your tiler. The warmup kits are designed to be fitted by either.I would avoid getting the electrician to fit the wire(if possible) as he will charge you his hourly rate to do so. You can also get a cable checker that measures the resistance during install and will give you an audible warning if you damage it in any way.

Part P 17th edition regs WILL apply to connection to the thermostat-which will need to be powered from a fused spur outside the bathroom and ideally through an RCD on the fuse box IIRC, as it is an alteration or addition to wiring in a bathroom or Kitchen and is notifiable, although it is worth checking with your electrician first as some are ok doing the final connection and nothing else, some want to check the cable before, during and after fitting.

Edited by TVR1 on Friday 29th January 14:50

blueg33

42,500 posts

242 months

Friday 29th January 2010
quotequote all
TVR1 said:
blueg33 said:
Nano2nd said:
blueg33 said:
Nano2nd said:
thanks guys, my local place does the warmup stuff

why do i need a sparky to connect it up?
Well for a start current building regs say that a qualified sparky has to to electical work. But for me the reason was that if it doesnt work properrly you have a whole tiled floor to lift and I like to have someone to blame.
fair enough about the blame thing wink

i thought the regs were electric can only be done my a competant (not neccessaryly qualified) person? or has that changed now?
You may be right on the regs thing.
On a small note, the actual UFH cable can be fitted by yourself (if you feel ok with it) or your tiler. The warmup kits are designed to be fitted by either.I would avoid getting the electrician to fit the wire(if possible) as he will charge you his hourly rate to do so. You can also get a cable checker that measures the resistance during install and will give you an audible warning if you damage it in any way.

Part P 17th edition regs WILL apply to connection to the thermostat-which will need to be powered from a fused spur outside the bathroom and ideally through an RCD on the fuse box IIRC, as it is an alteration or addition to wiring in a bathroom or Kitchen and is notifiable, although it is worth checking with your electrician first as some are ok doing the final connection and nothing else, some want to check the cable before, during and after fitting.

Edited by TVR1 on Friday 29th January 14:50
^^^^^^^^

What he said is how we did it. Sparky didn't instal the under tile heating element, the tiler did that

freecar

4,249 posts

205 months

Saturday 30th January 2010
quotequote all
I've laid electric heating under a tile floor myself, had a spark do the final connections, used a multimeter to test the floors resistance confirming no damage and laid the tile over the top.

If you are doing the entire floor with no blank area it would be easier than mine, I had to leave a small area uncovered and it meant that I had to lift iles up again to put more adhesive underneath as the levels were different. It was my first ever floor tiling job so I don't think a competent diyer would have any trouble doing it.

And yes, it's lovely under your feet, recommended for a bathroom (on a timer) not for a kitchen (can be expensive to run!)

andrewws

282 posts

242 months

Saturday 30th January 2010
quotequote all
I have laid several (40+) of these systems for customers, and they love them. It transforms the bathroom and invariably keeps the room warm without the main heating being required. I would advise going for the mat variety, the single wire system is OK if the area is difficult to cover but the mat hold the wire down nicely whilst tiling and keeps the gaps right. It is also quicker as you do not need to prime the floor, and it is usually self adhesive. There is no point laying the mat under units, especially under the toilet (you also have to drill to secure the toilet and there is always the risk of hitting the wire). Also make sure that you install the sensor in a tube so it can be removed and replaced if it fails, you may neet to channel the floot as these are usually wider than the matting and have to go into the matting area.

There is a general perception that these systems are expensive to run, that is not the case, we have three and our electric bill did not increase dramatically. But if installing on a concrete floor you must insulate first and always use a timer.

There is a problem levelling the tiles in the area where the mat is not installed, I use tile spacers on their side under each tile as this is usually of the same thickness as the wire and gives you a guide to thickness of the cement. I also leave a meter attached to the tail all the time as if the mat gets damaged for any reason during the install I can stop and remedy the situation before the whole floor is laid (this has never happened as the wire is quite resilient).

I used to wire them in myself untill this bloody part P stuff came in ( I am a degree qualified electronics engineer who spent 26 years installing IT hardware systems all over the world, who having made a career change is not allowed to install a wall socket in my own house!! ).

I now have to employ an electrician who will invariably expand the job because something else will need to be changed before he can give you the little form. It's usually the distribution board that is not up to spec, I always warn customers that this may happen and they invariably don't believe me. But they are rest assured that they will not die even though they are upwards of £400 lighter because of this.

But hey ho, this seems to be the way everything is going nowadays, you better get your floor down quick before part T comes in to restrict floor tiling to qualified tilers who are a members of one of the numerous Floor Tilling Quango's that will invariably spring up.

Good luck




Edited by andrewws on Saturday 30th January 09:09


Edited by andrewws on Saturday 30th January 09:13

mk1fan

10,799 posts

243 months

Saturday 30th January 2010
quotequote all
If your fuse box does have RCD protection you can use an RCD fused spur instead. Be careful with your rad sizing. Underfloor heating systems are a lot more efficient than a wall mounted rad and you may end up with too hot a room which isn't good.

On a different note you say that there was laminate laid before. Make sure the floor is stable enough to receive tiles. Overlaying floorboards with 4mm hardboard isn't robust enough.

blueg33

42,500 posts

242 months

Saturday 30th January 2010
quotequote all
mk1fan said:
If your fuse box does have RCD protection you can use an RCD fused spur instead. Be careful with your rad sizing. Underfloor heating systems are a lot more efficient than a wall mounted rad and you may end up with too hot a room which isn't good.

On a different note you say that there was laminate laid before. Make sure the floor is stable enough to receive tiles. Overlaying floorboards with 4mm hardboard isn't robust enough.
We had to use special underlay tiles to stabilise the floor even though the floor was a new engineered silent floor.

eliot

11,952 posts

272 months

Saturday 30th January 2010
quotequote all
andrewws said:
Also make sure that you install the sensor in a tube so it can be removed and replaced if it fails, you may neet to channel the floot as these are usually wider than the matting and have to go into the matting area.
Good advice that. And as others mentioned, put a multimeter on the wire as you lay the tiles to confirm continuity.

I installed my own years ago. Bathroom one works very well and you have to keep it turned down - consumes 400w (~4p hour). Kitchen one only takes the chill of the tiles - so walking in bare foot between wood and tiles feels the same - consumes 800w.
Each one has its own timer and I set them to only come on in the morning and go off at 7.30 am when the economy 7 goes off.

Olf

11,974 posts

236 months

Saturday 30th January 2010
quotequote all
mrmaggit said:
I'm going to be putting a Polypipe water system in the kitchen in a few weeks time. I'll let you know how I get on.
Mr Maggit, You won't regret it, however, don't lay it under the place you intend that your bin will sit. They sweat and it's not very nice!

Nano2nd

Original Poster:

3,426 posts

274 months

Saturday 30th January 2010
quotequote all
thanks for the advice

some of you are saying you have yours on a timer, is that just a timer or timer/thermostat setup?

Busamav

2,954 posts

226 months

Saturday 30th January 2010
quotequote all
andrewws said:
There is a general perception that these systems are expensive to run, that is not the case,
That is certainly against people I know who have had such an install.

I would advise clients not to have electric underfloor heating to anything other than minore areas such as en-suites etc. due to the costs .

mrmaggit said:
I'm going to be putting a Polypipe water system in the kitchen in a few weeks time. .
That would be my preferred solution



Edited by Busamav on Saturday 30th January 18:27

eliot

11,952 posts

272 months

Sunday 31st January 2010
quotequote all
Busamav said:
andrewws said:
There is a general perception that these systems are expensive to run, that is not the case,
That is certainly against people I know who have had such an install.

I would advise clients not to have electric underfloor heating to anything other than minore areas such as en-suites etc. due to the costs .
I would agree with that.