Servers, lifespan and capabilities.
Discussion
Am after some unbiased advice on servers.
I have an IT company who are trying to convince me that my two servers are at the end of there effective life span and that I need to spend £20k plus on a new set up - something I could do without.
Currently we have two Dell Power Edge 2900 servers one 3 years old one 5 years old.
The main server has 3 x 146 gig hard drives and acts as the domain controller, exchange server, SQL server, File server, ISA server and fax archive (?) with a tape back-up system.
The second server is the blackberry server and stores some files but not a complete back-up! I believe this is the oldest server and was once used as the main server (but this will need to be confirmed)
The warranty period has finished or about to finish; they both run Windows 2003 SBS and the UPS battery is out of order on one of them and the firewall warranty has also expired.
The company is based on five sites with about 30-40 employees needing access although not all at the same time. There is expansion planned.
My question is really can what we have cope? Given some good housekeeping, updated SBS, a new battery and a decent IT manager - last one recently given his cards for managing to set the system up with no anti-virus in place (oh yeah we have that as a side issue to remove) and a host of other recurring problems that someone else fixed at his first visit - unfortunately his continued help appears to be unavailable.
So, what is the most cost effective solution? Am I flogging a dead horse trying to keep the current system operational?
I don't need the capability to land a space mission on Mars, just for all stations to have Outlook available, file access via a secure VPN link to the servers document library, Blackberry comms etc.
I really could do with holding this expense off for 6-12 months (longer is obviously better).
Thanks
I have an IT company who are trying to convince me that my two servers are at the end of there effective life span and that I need to spend £20k plus on a new set up - something I could do without.
Currently we have two Dell Power Edge 2900 servers one 3 years old one 5 years old.
The main server has 3 x 146 gig hard drives and acts as the domain controller, exchange server, SQL server, File server, ISA server and fax archive (?) with a tape back-up system.
The second server is the blackberry server and stores some files but not a complete back-up! I believe this is the oldest server and was once used as the main server (but this will need to be confirmed)
The warranty period has finished or about to finish; they both run Windows 2003 SBS and the UPS battery is out of order on one of them and the firewall warranty has also expired.
The company is based on five sites with about 30-40 employees needing access although not all at the same time. There is expansion planned.
My question is really can what we have cope? Given some good housekeeping, updated SBS, a new battery and a decent IT manager - last one recently given his cards for managing to set the system up with no anti-virus in place (oh yeah we have that as a side issue to remove) and a host of other recurring problems that someone else fixed at his first visit - unfortunately his continued help appears to be unavailable.
So, what is the most cost effective solution? Am I flogging a dead horse trying to keep the current system operational?
I don't need the capability to land a space mission on Mars, just for all stations to have Outlook available, file access via a secure VPN link to the servers document library, Blackberry comms etc.
I really could do with holding this expense off for 6-12 months (longer is obviously better).
Thanks
5 years for a good server doesn't sound unreasonable at all.
Its the classic cost vs benefit scenario, is it worth the upfront cost to protect against a potential problem with the servers out of warranty? Indeed if your business is utterly dependent upon the system and a couple of hours downtime would cripple you, is it worth the cost of having a high availability system or standby hardware?
To answer your question, if the hardware is running sufficiently as it stands and you don't foresee any business growth that would consume more hardware resources, i don't see why you need to upgrade them. And yes, a good IT guy can usually extend the live of the kit, but this will be at a cost in one form or another.
Its the classic cost vs benefit scenario, is it worth the upfront cost to protect against a potential problem with the servers out of warranty? Indeed if your business is utterly dependent upon the system and a couple of hours downtime would cripple you, is it worth the cost of having a high availability system or standby hardware?
To answer your question, if the hardware is running sufficiently as it stands and you don't foresee any business growth that would consume more hardware resources, i don't see why you need to upgrade them. And yes, a good IT guy can usually extend the live of the kit, but this will be at a cost in one form or another.
davemac250 said:
Am after some unbiased advice on servers.
I have an IT company who are trying to convince me that my two servers are at the end of there effective life span and that I need to spend £20k plus on a new set up - something I could do without.
Currently we have two Dell Power Edge 2900 servers one 3 years old one 5 years old.
All IT sales folks are keen to make sales.I have an IT company who are trying to convince me that my two servers are at the end of there effective life span and that I need to spend £20k plus on a new set up - something I could do without.
Currently we have two Dell Power Edge 2900 servers one 3 years old one 5 years old.
Solution 1. Listen to the salesmen, junk both boxes, buy new and look
at their smiles.
Solution 2. Junk the older box, buy a replacement, keep the newer
box and compromise.
Solution 3. Keep both boxes and ignore the salesmen. Put a strategy
in place that when either or both boxes die, you have an easy plan
to repair or replace.
The 5 year old box may die in the next 1-2 years. You need to take
account of that.
Personally, I'd go with solution 3, unless you expect business
to expand so much that your current solution can no longer cope.
Thanks Guys,
That is roughly what I thought.
I have been very sceptical as there is always a 'best solution' and that always seems to be the one where I end up with only one arm and one leg once implemented!
Now, does anyone know a good IT guy in Geneva?
One who can set up the system so the Firewall and anti-virus is doing just that.
Get the servers running smoothly and create some stability - which as far as I can make out is directly linked to the above.
Get me another 12 months out of the current two servers with an eye to renewing them in turn as they fail.
There will not be growth in the company to the extent where the current set up is incapable of coping.
We certainly can cope if we are off-line for a period.
That is roughly what I thought.
I have been very sceptical as there is always a 'best solution' and that always seems to be the one where I end up with only one arm and one leg once implemented!
Now, does anyone know a good IT guy in Geneva?
One who can set up the system so the Firewall and anti-virus is doing just that.
Get the servers running smoothly and create some stability - which as far as I can make out is directly linked to the above.
Get me another 12 months out of the current two servers with an eye to renewing them in turn as they fail.
There will not be growth in the company to the extent where the current set up is incapable of coping.
We certainly can cope if we are off-line for a period.
The main question is how long can you survive if one of the machines goes bang? Setting up a new box with BES on shouldn't take too long but if your main server goes down then in the worse case you may have to struggle along for over a week without access to your email/ data. Do you have a disaster recovery plan or are you just winging it and pray nothing happens?
plasticpig said:
The main question is how long can you survive if one of the machines goes bang? Setting up a new box with BES on shouldn't take too long but if your main server goes down then in the worse case you may have to struggle along for over a week without access to your email/ data. Do you have a disaster recovery plan or are you just winging it and pray nothing happens?
That is a very good question.Our back up plan was a tape back up system than operated on a nightly basis.
We employed the IT manager to sort this out as an external contractor.
He adopted the wing and a prayer method.
One of the reason he is the ex-IT manager.
Prices in Geneva are ridiculous. This guy was charging €160ph and failing to deliver. Without fail any problem was at least a two visit problem and a couple of hours at home, he was caught out when one problem he 'fixed' I knew the solution was much simpler than what he had billed for.
I worked out over the past few years we would have been better served to hire a UK based company and pay for them to trip in. At least I'd have been able to understand things more easily and probably not have been left without IT support for weeks on end for no apparent reason.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a professional listing/contractor company that could help?
I am based in Luxembourg and have a group of contractors here who deal with this office. If I could I'd pick up the servers and relocate them here, but due to our operating licenses we cannot do that.
Just seems that the standard Swiss response to an IT problem is to rub hands in glee and double the first figure that comes into your head and refuse to discuss maintaining the current system.
TonyToniTone said:
If you do get someone in ask them to install the health monitor to help you keep an eye on things as you really need a baseline of how your current system is running at peak usage.
I am sure this would give you a more informed view and help with solution 3 above.
Health Monitor?I am sure this would give you a more informed view and help with solution 3 above.
Sorry am lost on that one.
Just to give you an idea. Our much mention IT manager told me the system was over heating and that we need to cool the room it was in or increase the server cooling.
Turns out the UPS battery was dead and that was causing the beeping noise.
Git. I doubt he would know what a Health Monitor is.
davemac250 said:
Health Monitor?
Sorry am lost on that one.
Just to give you an idea. Our much mention IT manager told me the system was over heating and that we need to cool the room it was in or increase the server cooling.
Turns out the UPS battery was dead and that was causing the beeping noise.
Git. I doubt he would know what a Health Monitor is.
Its just a piece of software that reports the server resource usage, so you can see how its running and have a clue about any resource issues.Sorry am lost on that one.
Just to give you an idea. Our much mention IT manager told me the system was over heating and that we need to cool the room it was in or increase the server cooling.
Turns out the UPS battery was dead and that was causing the beeping noise.
Git. I doubt he would know what a Health Monitor is.
If you just have a couple of servers i can't see there being any heating issues.
As sonic says but it's pretty well integrated into SBS and would email you a daily report broken down in to different areas ranging from backup to performance.
It would be handy in your situation as it gives info on growth rate.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc71989...
It would be handy in your situation as it gives info on growth rate.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc71989...
Realistically your most likely failures will be hard discs and power supplies. If you have these on the shelf as cheap insurance you should be fine to extend their life until you can budget for replacements. The issue is not generally in repairing the boxes, but parts availability at short notice.
dcb said:
Solution 3. Keep both boxes and ignore the salesmen. Put a strategy
in place that when either or both boxes die, you have an easy plan
to repair or replace.
Wot he said in place that when either or both boxes die, you have an easy plan
to repair or replace.
But based on the additional following assumptions you:
1. are not going to upgrade any software on the servers
2. monitor the servers as suggested and deal with the heating issues
3. are not going to increase the number of staff
4. there is sufficent disk capacity and backup capacity for your predicted storage needs.
5. have all your software disks and backups at hand to rebuild if required.
I have been an IS/IT manager for 15+ years before going into independant Business/IT consulting, I don't sell boxes, i just help busineses when they ask for my help.
If you are not going change any thing then your only risk is hardware failure and how long it would take to recover from it.
Keep a couple of spare disks on hand and power supplies / fans. these are the main things that go and are cheap compared to replacement.
This is what p$%$s me off about a large number of IT companies , just in it for the money. Make a little money on the box and then heaps on implementing the changes, which may not be required if a little common sense is used and the customer knows the risks.
Pity I'm not in Geneva
at 160 euros/ph 
Rip offYou can keep it going indefinitely if the performance and software you have are adequate, but you need a plan (and money set aside) for when, not if, they fail. Especially for the 5 year old one, obtaining a replacement part may be problematic, even from the vendor - say if a power supply failed, do you want to be scouring ebay for another, or going through the process of ordering, paying for, then waiting for delivery of, and setting up a new server? Of course, for things in warranty you just call them up and someone shows up the next day with one in their hand.
How much that is worth to you is largely down to what it would cost (both in parts/labour but also downtime) if something failed.
One area that is a bit of a concern is around the tape backup. Tape drives can go a bit wonky over time and start producing tapes that can be written to and read back in the drive, but other drives can't read them properly. Sometimes they get worse than that and they'll happily write to tape, but the person managing it doesn't bother to verify the backups and even that drive can't read them.
It's also happened to firms I've worked with that a server (including their tape drive) dies and it's hard or impossible to even find a drive to use to restore their tapes. Formats move on, and while some have new versions that are backward-compatible, some aren't.
Either way, it's worth buying another tape drive, right now. Get an external one of the same type as what you have (along with a suitable interface card), and keep it off-site with your tapes. If you had a fire and needed to restore, you can pick up any old server (or even a desktop PC), do your restores and get going ASAP without needing to faff about finding a suitable tape drive. You can also use it to do a proper test restore in the meantime and check that your tapes are readable and that you're backing up everything you'd need to recover properly.
Fix the UPS battery too - a power cut with no UPS (or a broken one) is far more likely to lead to data loss.
How much that is worth to you is largely down to what it would cost (both in parts/labour but also downtime) if something failed.
One area that is a bit of a concern is around the tape backup. Tape drives can go a bit wonky over time and start producing tapes that can be written to and read back in the drive, but other drives can't read them properly. Sometimes they get worse than that and they'll happily write to tape, but the person managing it doesn't bother to verify the backups and even that drive can't read them.
It's also happened to firms I've worked with that a server (including their tape drive) dies and it's hard or impossible to even find a drive to use to restore their tapes. Formats move on, and while some have new versions that are backward-compatible, some aren't.
Either way, it's worth buying another tape drive, right now. Get an external one of the same type as what you have (along with a suitable interface card), and keep it off-site with your tapes. If you had a fire and needed to restore, you can pick up any old server (or even a desktop PC), do your restores and get going ASAP without needing to faff about finding a suitable tape drive. You can also use it to do a proper test restore in the meantime and check that your tapes are readable and that you're backing up everything you'd need to recover properly.
Fix the UPS battery too - a power cut with no UPS (or a broken one) is far more likely to lead to data loss.
Cmurder said:
most tohe governmet sites im on have dell 2900's adn theyve been there years! keep em dude unti they die a bad death
Thing is most government sites can easily and quickly grab another one if one dies, and have 1 or 2 people hanging around ready to do it.I wonder if the OP has considered visualising his servers. It doesn't sound like they'll be over worked at the moment.
So buy 1 new server. Install Xen/VMware ESXi (Free). Visualise both old servers and run them on the new server.
Install Xen/VMware ESXi (free) on the best of the old servers. And move one server back.
That way hardware upgrades are easy in the future. His down time should 1 server fail is quite low. Just has to boot the VM on the other server.
Just another option to give a bit more security in the event an old server dies.
OK, I'm lost.
Look, I trained as an aerospace engineer.
Spent 15 years ignoring red lights, driving too fast and having fun and now run an investment company.
When I was in Aerospace we still used pens and paper
When I was in the police I broke more computers than I used.
I am truly lost with visualisation, CITRIX this and SBS that
Big thanks to lestag for some advice in my only language. (€160 is his scheduled p.h. price. Call out is truly scary!)
And thanks to itsnotarace - I'll call for your thoughts.
Some food for thought. I am certain that the £20k new set up + a monthly ongoing is pie in the sky.
Look, I trained as an aerospace engineer.
Spent 15 years ignoring red lights, driving too fast and having fun and now run an investment company.
When I was in Aerospace we still used pens and paper
When I was in the police I broke more computers than I used.
I am truly lost with visualisation, CITRIX this and SBS that
Big thanks to lestag for some advice in my only language. (€160 is his scheduled p.h. price. Call out is truly scary!)
And thanks to itsnotarace - I'll call for your thoughts.
Some food for thought. I am certain that the £20k new set up + a monthly ongoing is pie in the sky.
davemac250 said:
Some food for thought. I am certain that the £20k new set up + a monthly ongoing is pie in the sky.
It depends what your 20K gets you. If your business can afford to wait a day for an engineer to turn up and fix the hardware then that's fine and £20K may be over the top. If you require zero 9-5 business hours downtime then it gets more expensive. If you require 24x7 uptime and 4 hour response for any broken hardware then £20K may well not be enough. plasticpig said:
davemac250 said:
Some food for thought. I am certain that the £20k new set up + a monthly ongoing is pie in the sky.
It depends what your 20K gets you. If your business can afford to wait a day for an engineer to turn up and fix the hardware then that's fine and £20K may be over the top. If you require zero 9-5 business hours downtime then it gets more expensive. If you require 24x7 uptime and 4 hour response for any broken hardware then £20K may well not be enough. I need 9-5 working.
I can wait a day.
I do not see where 20k start up and 1k per month is good value. That buys me 5hrs use it or loose it maintenance.
Otherwise it is 220 ph flat rate.
I mean the guy didn't even have the decency to offer complimentary lube.
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