Discussion
Looking at getting a 2.0 Twin Spark Alfa. Could those of you who know about such things let me know why there is so much of a difference in the 0-60 time between the 147 and 156? The 156 looks a good second faster at eight-and-a-half-ish. Is this down to the gearing and if you've experienced both, does it make much difference on the road?
More generally, which is the better drive? I was impressed a few years back in a 147 but not driven a 156.
Ta for the help.
More generally, which is the better drive? I was impressed a few years back in a 147 but not driven a 156.
Ta for the help.
The original 156s were lighter than the 147 and I believe most of the road test data stems from this. I can't believe it makes much difference in the real world. You really need to choose which car suits you better.
Funnily enough I parked next to an early 156 the other day. V reg in dark green. It still looked absolutely great. I'm not sure the 147 still does...
Funnily enough I parked next to an early 156 the other day. V reg in dark green. It still looked absolutely great. I'm not sure the 147 still does...
I've had both - 2 x 147s (manual and SS) and a 156 2.0TS, as well as a couple of GTAs.
156 is certainly a lot more car - especially if you need the rear seats and boot on a regular basis. The interiors have more of a big car feel and the driving position is better IMO.
I believe most people would say the 147 is more fun - certainly more 'flickable' (and remarkably easy to lift an inside real wheel) but my view is that the steering on the 156 makes it a nicer car to hussle along a british B road. (I've always found the 147s a bit choppy)
Also, the early 156 had a fantastic (classic alfa) exhaust note, which you just don't get in quite the same way on the later ones or the 147s.
I wouldn't say there's much of a 'real world' difference between a 2.0 147 and a similar 156 on the road.
At the end of the day, it's a matter of personal choice. Both are great cars in their own way and represent fantastic value for money too.
I hope that helps! Enjoy.
156 is certainly a lot more car - especially if you need the rear seats and boot on a regular basis. The interiors have more of a big car feel and the driving position is better IMO.
I believe most people would say the 147 is more fun - certainly more 'flickable' (and remarkably easy to lift an inside real wheel) but my view is that the steering on the 156 makes it a nicer car to hussle along a british B road. (I've always found the 147s a bit choppy)
Also, the early 156 had a fantastic (classic alfa) exhaust note, which you just don't get in quite the same way on the later ones or the 147s.
I wouldn't say there's much of a 'real world' difference between a 2.0 147 and a similar 156 on the road.
At the end of the day, it's a matter of personal choice. Both are great cars in their own way and represent fantastic value for money too.
I hope that helps! Enjoy.
Thanks for those - I guess a 156 would be more convenient as I have three children under 9 that will need lugging around sometimes in it, although we have a V70 Volvo for whole family trips. But the extra space would be useful. The Alfa would be mostly for me to commute/second car.
Interesting to that two cars ostensibly made out of mostly the same components can have varied characteristics. Just have to try both out for myself...
Interesting to that two cars ostensibly made out of mostly the same components can have varied characteristics. Just have to try both out for myself...
Depends what you need, but it's a constant source of irritation to me that the (otherwise pretty perfect) 156 saloon doesn't have folding seats. Yes, the boot is a reasonable size, but as soon as you need more area than the boot alone provides - for example trying to get a mountain bike in the back - you're better off with the 147. Or a Sportwagon.
Yes it bugged me too, you need the wagon if you want that facility, but it's no hardship, the SW looks just as nice and pretty much drove as well too.
I never owned a 147, but drove a few on tests and as loan cars, also on track. I agree they are more 'flickable' (especialy with a Q2 diff) and I think slightly better resolved in the suspension department (the 156's achilees heel). The 156 just felt more complete though and looked better inside and out IMO. It's still the best looking saloon car 13 years on.
156 had a better range of engines too, the 147 never got the 2.4JTD, the 1.8TS, 2.5V6 or the JTS. There's nothing much wrong with the engines they did get, but you do get more choice with a 156.
Early 156's had a full 155BHP from the 2.0, around about the time the 147 came out it dropped to 150BHP, this might account for the differance in stated performance figures. Certainly Alfa managed to give Autocar a quick one, 0 -60 in 8.1 and 0-100 in 22 Sec. they didn't usualy go that quick in later tests, even with the JTS engine.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/Alfa-Romeo-156-2.0-TS/200089/
I never owned a 147, but drove a few on tests and as loan cars, also on track. I agree they are more 'flickable' (especialy with a Q2 diff) and I think slightly better resolved in the suspension department (the 156's achilees heel). The 156 just felt more complete though and looked better inside and out IMO. It's still the best looking saloon car 13 years on.
156 had a better range of engines too, the 147 never got the 2.4JTD, the 1.8TS, 2.5V6 or the JTS. There's nothing much wrong with the engines they did get, but you do get more choice with a 156.
Early 156's had a full 155BHP from the 2.0, around about the time the 147 came out it dropped to 150BHP, this might account for the differance in stated performance figures. Certainly Alfa managed to give Autocar a quick one, 0 -60 in 8.1 and 0-100 in 22 Sec. they didn't usualy go that quick in later tests, even with the JTS engine.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/Alfa-Romeo-156-2.0-TS/200089/
Chris71 said:
Depends what you need, but it's a constant source of irritation to me that the (otherwise pretty perfect) 156 saloon doesn't have folding seats. Yes, the boot is a reasonable size, but as soon as you need more area than the boot alone provides - for example trying to get a mountain bike in the back - you're better off with the 147. Or a Sportwagon.
Got the V70 for all that load lugging and bike stuff. The Alfa is very much a second car for my commute, a bit of weekend fun and the occasional sprint and track day. As long as I can get four relatively small people in it it's practical enough. What I'm really looking for is a driving experience - not neccessarily the out and out fastest but engaging, fun and controlable. Despite the Volvos, at heart I'm a real Alfa fan having Sud Sprint and a Twin Cam powered Dutton in the family when I was in my teens and now share my stepdads's GT Junior in sprints and hillclimbs. All I need to do now is convert that interst into ownership!
Nice GTJ
You've now got to tell us all about it of course, I don't recognise that particular car.
I've got a couple of Berties myself.
Are either of you in AROC, we have quite an active section of the forum dedicated to 105's.
You'll will have RicksAlfa's drooling too, though yours is a little on the Yellow side for him;)
You've now got to tell us all about it of course, I don't recognise that particular car.
I've got a couple of Berties myself.Are either of you in AROC, we have quite an active section of the forum dedicated to 105's.
You'll will have RicksAlfa's drooling too, though yours is a little on the Yellow side for him;)
2volvos said:
Chris71 said:
Depends what you need, but it's a constant source of irritation to me that the (otherwise pretty perfect) 156 saloon doesn't have folding seats. Yes, the boot is a reasonable size, but as soon as you need more area than the boot alone provides - for example trying to get a mountain bike in the back - you're better off with the 147. Or a Sportwagon.
Got the V70 for all that load lugging and bike stuff. The Alfa is very much a second car for my commute, a bit of weekend fun and the occasional sprint and track day.It's just a personal opinion obviously, but if you've already got something sensible I'd take the opportunity to run something a bit more exciting as the second car. I've got a track-prep'd Caterham, but there's nothing to stop you going for a GTV or a classic Spider if you're into your Alfas.
Without wishing to hi-jack the thread, what's the 156 V6 Sportwagon like with a lot of weight in it? Are the brakes and so on up to being filled to the roof with heavy boxes? My existing sensible car gets a bit exciting on the motorway with a full payload, an estate might be better.
ETA I'd love one of these as my sensible load lugger! http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1403792.htm
Edited by Chris71 on Thursday 4th February 10:50
So the dope about the GTJ is that is belongs to my step-dad, who campaigns it quite extensively on the hills and circuits, mostly around the Midlands. I think its the race series organsised by the MG Car Club that he takes part in.
The car started life as a 1300 GT Junior but has been modified as you can see. It's running a 2-litre on 45 Webers and lots of other trick bits. On the rollers it was putting out about 190 at the flywheel. There's a Harvey Bailey handling kit, uprated drilled and vented brakes. It's quite a bit lighter than usual with ally and fibreglass panels where possible, relocated battery and a small competition fuel tank. The inside is stripped apart from the dash (that's the next job). We think its the fastest road going Guila ever up Shelsley Walsh running in the mid 38s. There was a guy called Marcel Juno who ran a mod-sports looking one in the 80s which has always been to time to beat. He'll be running it at the big Alfa weekend at Shelsley in August.I do a shared event or two in it per season. It's a very easy car to drive quickly as it is very progressive, pulls like a train and sounds bloody lovely.
You're right about the colour, it's what was known as Ochre and an original Alfa colour. Stepdad thought there were already too many red Afas and wanted something different. Pedant alert, but there's an Ochre GTV in the background in the scene in The Italian Job when Michael Caine comes out of the hotel after his night with Mrs Beckermann.
In a perfect world it would be nice to have something a bit more extreme, but the second car still has to fulfil some family duties, and a 50 odd mile round trip commute....now what about a Guila Super...?
The car started life as a 1300 GT Junior but has been modified as you can see. It's running a 2-litre on 45 Webers and lots of other trick bits. On the rollers it was putting out about 190 at the flywheel. There's a Harvey Bailey handling kit, uprated drilled and vented brakes. It's quite a bit lighter than usual with ally and fibreglass panels where possible, relocated battery and a small competition fuel tank. The inside is stripped apart from the dash (that's the next job). We think its the fastest road going Guila ever up Shelsley Walsh running in the mid 38s. There was a guy called Marcel Juno who ran a mod-sports looking one in the 80s which has always been to time to beat. He'll be running it at the big Alfa weekend at Shelsley in August.I do a shared event or two in it per season. It's a very easy car to drive quickly as it is very progressive, pulls like a train and sounds bloody lovely.
You're right about the colour, it's what was known as Ochre and an original Alfa colour. Stepdad thought there were already too many red Afas and wanted something different. Pedant alert, but there's an Ochre GTV in the background in the scene in The Italian Job when Michael Caine comes out of the hotel after his night with Mrs Beckermann.
In a perfect world it would be nice to have something a bit more extreme, but the second car still has to fulfil some family duties, and a 50 odd mile round trip commute....now what about a Guila Super...?
2volvos said:
You're right about the colour, it's what was known as Ochre and an original Alfa colour. Stepdad thought there were already too many red Afas and wanted something different. Pedant alert, but there's an Ochre GTV in the background in the scene in The Italian Job when Michael Caine comes out of the hotel after his night with Mrs Beckermann.
Indeed there is!
Your Dad's car sounds great fun.
My 1750 was/is AR109 from new. Much better than red!!
2volvos said:
So the dope about the GTJ is that is belongs to my step-dad, who campaigns it quite extensively on the hills and circuits, mostly around the Midlands. I think its the race series organsised by the MG Car Club that he takes part in.
The car started life as a 1300 GT Junior but has been modified as you can see. It's running a 2-litre on 45 Webers and lots of other trick bits. On the rollers it was putting out about 190 at the flywheel. There's a Harvey Bailey handling kit, uprated drilled and vented brakes. It's quite a bit lighter than usual with ally and fibreglass panels where possible, relocated battery and a small competition fuel tank. The inside is stripped apart from the dash (that's the next job). We think its the fastest road going Guila ever up Shelsley Walsh running in the mid 38s. There was a guy called Marcel Juno who ran a mod-sports looking one in the 80s which has always been to time to beat. He'll be running it at the big Alfa weekend at Shelsley in August.I do a shared event or two in it per season. It's a very easy car to drive quickly as it is very progressive, pulls like a train and sounds bloody lovely.
You're right about the colour, it's what was known as Ochre and an original Alfa colour. Stepdad thought there were already too many red Afas and wanted something different. Pedant alert, but there's an Ochre GTV in the background in the scene in The Italian Job when Michael Caine comes out of the hotel after his night with Mrs Beckermann.
In a perfect world it would be nice to have something a bit more extreme, but the second car still has to fulfil some family duties, and a 50 odd mile round trip commute....now what about a Guila Super...?
Indeed it looks and sounds from your spec like a little cracker. I go up to Harewood a few times to watch, my Brother competes a lot (road modified 205 1.9 on 45's). I'd love to see how it goes up there compared to the usual suspects. The car started life as a 1300 GT Junior but has been modified as you can see. It's running a 2-litre on 45 Webers and lots of other trick bits. On the rollers it was putting out about 190 at the flywheel. There's a Harvey Bailey handling kit, uprated drilled and vented brakes. It's quite a bit lighter than usual with ally and fibreglass panels where possible, relocated battery and a small competition fuel tank. The inside is stripped apart from the dash (that's the next job). We think its the fastest road going Guila ever up Shelsley Walsh running in the mid 38s. There was a guy called Marcel Juno who ran a mod-sports looking one in the 80s which has always been to time to beat. He'll be running it at the big Alfa weekend at Shelsley in August.I do a shared event or two in it per season. It's a very easy car to drive quickly as it is very progressive, pulls like a train and sounds bloody lovely.
You're right about the colour, it's what was known as Ochre and an original Alfa colour. Stepdad thought there were already too many red Afas and wanted something different. Pedant alert, but there's an Ochre GTV in the background in the scene in The Italian Job when Michael Caine comes out of the hotel after his night with Mrs Beckermann.
In a perfect world it would be nice to have something a bit more extreme, but the second car still has to fulfil some family duties, and a 50 odd mile round trip commute....now what about a Guila Super...?
The only really quick Alfa I've seen so far was a two coloured blue Bertone running in mod-prods, it was a very 'focused' car and it was his first trip up north, he's from Jersey. After a few slowish runs, his best ended up faster than my Brothers 205, which was pretty impressive.
They have buggered about with the rules for road modded cars now though haven't they?, he's switching to mod-prods... to save money
Chris71 said:
Without wishing to hi-jack the thread, what's the 156 V6 Sportwagon like with a lot of weight in it? Are the brakes and so on up to being filled to the roof with heavy boxes? My existing sensible car gets a bit exciting on the motorway with a full payload, an estate might be better.
ETA I'd love one of these as my sensible load lugger! http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1403792.htm
Brilliant Car the 156 GTA SW, I ran one for three years and loved it to bits. Had to let it go when fuel costs started to get too high and couldn't justify two 'toys' as such, a company BMW was sooo much cheaper.ETA I'd love one of these as my sensible load lugger! http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1403792.htm
Edited by Chris71 on Thursday 4th February 10:50
the only fault I could hang on the GTA was still the usual 156 tendancy for it to get out of sorts on an undulating road, the damping and spring rates just don't match our roads well. The GTA's are better than standard 156's, but still not up to the standard of a lots of other cars I could name. Mind you they are starting to get into the price brackets whee it's worth bying them and replacing the suspension anyway for something better tuned for the UK, HBE do a kit I think.
By the way that red one is two years older than mine was, has done many more miles and he's asking less than a grand below the price I ended up getting for my car when it went two years back. Prices are strengthening on them, which is a good sign.
velocemitch said:
Brilliant Car the 156 GTA SW, I ran one for three years and loved it to bits. Had to let it go when fuel costs started to get too high and couldn't justify two 'toys' as such, a company BMW was sooo much cheaper.
Interesting that you say that. To be honest the main alternative I'm considering is an E36 BMW 328 (or a Corrado). Although I like the idea a GTA would probably be a bit too brave in terms of running costs in reality...
Not sure you are comparing Apples with Apples here Chris. I took a company car which happened to be a BMW (Diesel).
I'm not sure the running costs of a GTA would be massively differant to that of a 328, or a Corrado, if you were to run them as private cars.
I used to average about 27MPG in the GTA and could get 30MPG on a long run. Insurance was never a real killer, but I'm low risk (apparently!). Tyres were OK for such a quick car. I had no reliability isues, though I used up a few suspension bushes.
If you were compare a GTA against a 2.5 V6, I'd say there would be nothing in it. The 3.2 is so tractable you could just dawdle around in 6th, if in fuel saving mode. Not many cars you can go from first to sixth if you feel lazy.....
I'm not sure the running costs of a GTA would be massively differant to that of a 328, or a Corrado, if you were to run them as private cars.
I used to average about 27MPG in the GTA and could get 30MPG on a long run. Insurance was never a real killer, but I'm low risk (apparently!). Tyres were OK for such a quick car. I had no reliability isues, though I used up a few suspension bushes.
If you were compare a GTA against a 2.5 V6, I'd say there would be nothing in it. The 3.2 is so tractable you could just dawdle around in 6th, if in fuel saving mode. Not many cars you can go from first to sixth if you feel lazy.....
velocemitch said:
Early 156's had a full 155BHP from the 2.0, around about the time the 147 came out it dropped to 150BHP, this might account for the differance in stated performance figures.
Parkers state 0-60 of 9.0 seconds for the 2.0 147, does this seem realistic? (I know Parkers figures tend to be a bit random). For a 150bhp hatch that seems very sluggish to me, no quicker that a 2.0L Focus for instance.Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff