Advice needed! 93MPH on M4 = NIP

[Torque Power]

Last Saturday a mobile speed camera snapped me travelling at 93MPH heading East on the M4 at 10:23am. Location was opposite to the Severn Bridge Toll Booths (because you don't have to pay when heading East, the M4 runs straight past the tolls).

Traffic was light to medium, visiblity excellent, conditions dry and bright. Speed limit in force was 70MPH.

I've been sent a Notice of Intended Prosecution, with no sign of a fixed penalty alternative. I had a passenger with me, and neither of us spotted the camera van, which under law is supposed to be clearly visible.

Does anyone have any useful suggestions? What penalty can I expect if I plead guilty?

It's the absence of a fixed penalty alternative that is worrying me... thanks for your advice...

[craigw]

just trying to remember if you are still in Wales there? Gwent police give 3 points up to 27 mph over the limit (in a 70), not sure if the speed limit for the bridge is 50mph though?

To be honest 93 through the outgoing toll section is a bit bloody steamy by any stretch of the imagination but best of luck with it.

[Plotloss]

96 is the cutoff.

3 points and £60

The non signing route is the one to take...

[Mon Ami Mate]

craigw said:

just trying to remember if you are still in Wales there? Gwent police give 3 points up to 27 mph over the limit (in a 70), not sure if the speed limit for the bridge is 50mph though? To be honest 93 through the outgoing toll section is a bit bloody steamy by any stretch of the imagination but best of luck with it.

I too have a nasty feeling that the limit there is 50mph and not 70mph.

[Torque Power]

Yes, should have mentioned that the NoIP was sent from South Wales Police. Location of the camera's sighting was specified as "Rogiet, Monmouthshire".

I'd heard the non-signing loophole had been closed...?

I'm going to (anonymously) call South Wales Police in Cardiff this afternoon and see what's on the cards

[craigw]

I had an nip, was only when I sent it back that I was offered the 3 points,£60. At that speed (provided the limit was 70) you should get same. phone and ask, when I did they were pretty straightforward.

[Torque Power]

The speed limit in force was stated on the NoIP as 70MPH. I was still (just) on the mainland at the time, just East of the bridge.

I agree, 93MPH was too fast for that section of road. It's down to two-lanes by that point, with a couple of sliproads. TBH I've learnt my lesson even without the points and fine, as receiving that NoIP has been a very unpleasant experience

[Torque Power]

Just called South Wales Police. It's as Craig said: providing I send back the NoIP as requested, I'll be "offered" 3 points and £60 fine. I'll send it back unsigned.

Threshold for compulsory court hearing is 27MPH over the limit.

For everyone else's benefit, I was told that there's a mobile camera site on M4 motorway bridges within Gwent. Apparently, the van's there every day.

Thanks everyone for your reassuring help.

>> Edited by Torque Power on Monday 9th February 14:37

[craigw]

your own choice of course but personally I'd take those & say thanks.

[barry sheene]

gotta agree with craigw here, if you send back the form unsigned they _will_ take you to court (as they did with me last month).

I didn't want the 3 points, but the 60ukp was way less than what it'd cost me to take a day off to go to court (and I think that's what they count on

[Torque Power]

I didn't know that returning an unsigned NIP would result in court action. I'm new to all this!

'Fink I'll count my blessings, sign the bloody NIP return it and learn my lesson

[barry sheene]

neither did I

[Cooperman]

Never, ever, sign the NIP.
If you fight it all the way it will go away. There is so much case history on this site and on other sites. You just must 'hang tough' and not give in to the inevitable 'bluff & bluster' letters you will get threatening you. If in doubt, use a good solicitor, one as recommended by one of the web sites (like Pepipoo).
They send a FAQ form with the NIP which contains untruths - challenge them on this.
Never surrender!!

[hertsbiker]

NOt signing=way forward.

Not getting caught=better.

Not having stupid speed limits on safe roads=best.


Of course you could always ask them to show you a photo that CLEARLY identifies the driver.. and if there isn't one, say you can't remember.

Works.... beleive me.

[wanty1974]

Yes - that van is always there above the toll booths on the Severn Bridge. They tend to like most bridges on the M4 in South Wales, especially around Cardiff & Bridgend (and especially when the GB Rally is passing through )

[kevinday]

Just a silly question here, but, you say you were still on the mainland, I assume this means not in South Wales. If so, does the SW Police have jurisdiction to prosecute you for speeding?

[nonegreen]

hertsbiker said:

NOt signing=way forward. Not getting caught=better. Not having stupid speed limits on safe roads=best. Of course you could always ask them to show you a photo that CLEARLY identifies the driver.. and if there isn't one, say you can't remember. Works.... beleive me.

[road-law]

You pays your money and takes your choice.

You can either sign and take the 3 points and £60 fine or not sign the NIP. They will then take you to court probably under s172 for failing to provide details of the driver. In our view this is not proveable as there is no legal requirement in s172 that says you have to sign the form. What they should do, following Yorke, is charge you with the speeder and then argue that the NIP return form is permissable in evidence despite not being signed, and thereby convict you of the original speeding offence. However most police forces and CPSs are steering clear of this argument.

There are no certainties in court, so as we say you pay your money and takes your choice.
www.road-law.co.uk

[wanty1974]

kevinday said:

Just a silly question here, but, you say you were still on the mainland, I assume this means not in South Wales. If so, does the SW Police have jurisdiction to prosecute you for speeding?

The booths are on the Welsh side, on what I make out to be pretty firm turf. Whether that puts them outside the 'mainland' I leave that up to you!