Some technical advice - GT2/996 Turbo - car nearly finished
Discussion
Some of you guys know that I embarked on a turbo upgrade and got messed around by a turbo builder.
I then bought some Protomotive K24/18g turbos and was having work done at a well known indy.
When they took the turbos off I was told about some oil feed pipes which feed the turbos which they had to heat up to remove from the turbos due to corrosion. They said that 'its just a warning but they may need replacing.'
I visited mid job and looked at the pipes that join the turbos, they looked fine and my contact there said 'yes they dont look too bad and it all should be fine.'
I then got a call last week to say that the car has been run in the workshop for an hour and all is fine.
Car has been gone for a while and everything was set to be finished for a pickup tomorrow. I called this morning and paid my final bill.
Great!
I then get a call at 3pm to say that there is oil leaks from these pipes at the joins to the turbos and they will need to be replaced.... engine needs to be removed to fit the new pipes and its going to be 14hours labour!
Ouch..... was so looking forward to having the car back.
My questions are has anyone else had a similar problem?
Should I get a second opinion?
Also what would the labour on a clutch be while the engine is out, have a feeling I might need one within 10-15k miles, should I just do it now?
And what else is likely to come up?
Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks
I then bought some Protomotive K24/18g turbos and was having work done at a well known indy.
When they took the turbos off I was told about some oil feed pipes which feed the turbos which they had to heat up to remove from the turbos due to corrosion. They said that 'its just a warning but they may need replacing.'
I visited mid job and looked at the pipes that join the turbos, they looked fine and my contact there said 'yes they dont look too bad and it all should be fine.'
I then got a call last week to say that the car has been run in the workshop for an hour and all is fine.
Car has been gone for a while and everything was set to be finished for a pickup tomorrow. I called this morning and paid my final bill.
Great!
I then get a call at 3pm to say that there is oil leaks from these pipes at the joins to the turbos and they will need to be replaced.... engine needs to be removed to fit the new pipes and its going to be 14hours labour!
Ouch..... was so looking forward to having the car back.
My questions are has anyone else had a similar problem?
Should I get a second opinion?
Also what would the labour on a clutch be while the engine is out, have a feeling I might need one within 10-15k miles, should I just do it now?
And what else is likely to come up?
Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks
Call me cynical fella...
But it's handy that your pipes that looked fine, have now split, and need 14 hours of work to get it sorted, Cripes, That's at least a grand with the outfit in question
Trouble with a second opinion is, what if they 'make sure' they need replacing before you can get a second opinion.
I hope I'm wrong.
Get a second opinion, just turn up in the morning or something
But it's handy that your pipes that looked fine, have now split, and need 14 hours of work to get it sorted, Cripes, That's at least a grand with the outfit in question
Trouble with a second opinion is, what if they 'make sure' they need replacing before you can get a second opinion.
I hope I'm wrong.
Get a second opinion, just turn up in the morning or something
Edited by 98C4S on Friday 5th February 20:40
I must say that 14 hours seems like a massive amount of time even with an engine out job - it cannot possibly take more than three hours for engine out, and then 3 hours engine in. That would leave a massive 8 hours to replace defective hoses?!?!?!?
I would strongly agree that a second opinion is needed.
A friend of mine had turbos replaced and had a similar issue. His only required tightening on the hoses - you never know your luck.
As a minimum, you should examine the defect, and ensure that you are not being asked to cover damage caused by the fitter.
JJ
I would strongly agree that a second opinion is needed.
A friend of mine had turbos replaced and had a similar issue. His only required tightening on the hoses - you never know your luck.
As a minimum, you should examine the defect, and ensure that you are not being asked to cover damage caused by the fitter.
JJ
Mate, when fitting the new turbos new check valves and o rings should have been put in which feed pipes attach to, if there was no corrosion to unions and they turned freely on the pipe I can't see how they can be leaking if they've been fitted properly, get yourself down there and have a look for yourself.
Edited by EvoSlayer on Friday 5th February 20:54
How would the oil return feed pipe go from looking A-OK to needing replacing in a day ?
Did they miss something the first time ? Did they weaken / affect them when they heated them up to remove from the turbos?
I'd ask a few Q's and cross reference their pricing with other indy's.... you know who I'd recommend to speak to !!
If you do have engine out and are running the orig gt2 clutch then definitely get it upgraded to the sachs jobbie at that point.
Did they miss something the first time ? Did they weaken / affect them when they heated them up to remove from the turbos?
I'd ask a few Q's and cross reference their pricing with other indy's.... you know who I'd recommend to speak to !!
If you do have engine out and are running the orig gt2 clutch then definitely get it upgraded to the sachs jobbie at that point.
No no no way.
Had a similair problem when I underwent my conversion - It was the nearside oil feed that needed to be replaced.
The engine did not need to be dropped - Ok a fair amount of parts needed to be removed to replace but it was an hour to two tops to do that side.
Tell them they are talking b
ks and they clearly are not as experienced as you thought.....
Had a similair problem when I underwent my conversion - It was the nearside oil feed that needed to be replaced.
The engine did not need to be dropped - Ok a fair amount of parts needed to be removed to replace but it was an hour to two tops to do that side.
Tell them they are talking b
ks and they clearly are not as experienced as you thought.....Thanks for the input guys. Really appreciated.
The old check valves got lost on the deal that fell through with my old turbo rebuild so they ordered new ones for me this week.
Not sure about O rings.
I can go and look but Im really not sure exactly what Im looking at so not sure what good I can do. Was tempted to ring around in the morning and get some quotes on the job from other indys as a start.
Should I do clutch while I have the opportunity?
The old check valves got lost on the deal that fell through with my old turbo rebuild so they ordered new ones for me this week.
Not sure about O rings.
I can go and look but Im really not sure exactly what Im looking at so not sure what good I can do. Was tempted to ring around in the morning and get some quotes on the job from other indys as a start.
Should I do clutch while I have the opportunity?
Lee, its far too suspicious, and it F's me off, I see as stealers taking the P.
I know we all respect the company in question, but I have enquired for a few things. And They just didnt seem right.
Get on all the Forums - esp the American ones, and get all the opinions you can.
Dont agree to the work yet.
Who's to say they didnt damage the pipes.
I know we all respect the company in question, but I have enquired for a few things. And They just didnt seem right.
Get on all the Forums - esp the American ones, and get all the opinions you can.
Dont agree to the work yet.
Who's to say they didnt damage the pipes.
I agree with all comments.
Its funny how they did work without leakage and now there are issues.
I think they may have been damaged in the heating up to remove. Where do I stand with that?
Really tempted to get the car moved, but where will it get me? Im still going to have to pay for this work but with the added expense of trailoring the car.
Will visit in the morning.
Thanks!
Its funny how they did work without leakage and now there are issues.
I think they may have been damaged in the heating up to remove. Where do I stand with that?
Really tempted to get the car moved, but where will it get me? Im still going to have to pay for this work but with the added expense of trailoring the car.
Will visit in the morning.
Thanks!
Hi Lee,
Shame you are so far away as I would give you a 2nd opinion....you need to find out which pipes are leaking as if it is the oil pressure feed to the turbo charger check valve this can be replaced in around 3-4 hours with engine in..
If it is the oil catch tank pipe work which goes back to the oil scavange pump then you will need to remove the exhaust and the rear engine hanger cradle which the engine mountings secure to... probably 6-7 hours.
Unfortunatly this is what happens with these pipe as they are not the best in the world.
If it is the scavange pipework that is leaking then this could of been avoided by leaving the oil catch tanks on the pipework and just remove it off the turbo charger.
Mike
Shame you are so far away as I would give you a 2nd opinion....you need to find out which pipes are leaking as if it is the oil pressure feed to the turbo charger check valve this can be replaced in around 3-4 hours with engine in..
If it is the oil catch tank pipe work which goes back to the oil scavange pump then you will need to remove the exhaust and the rear engine hanger cradle which the engine mountings secure to... probably 6-7 hours.
Unfortunatly this is what happens with these pipe as they are not the best in the world.
If it is the scavange pipework that is leaking then this could of been avoided by leaving the oil catch tanks on the pipework and just remove it off the turbo charger.
Mike
sportsandclassic said:
Hi Lee,
Shame you are so far away as I would give you a 2nd opinion....you need to find out which pipes are leaking as if it is the oil pressure feed to the turbo charger check valve this can be replaced in around 3-4 hours with engine in..
If it is the oil catch tank pipe work which goes back to the oil scavange pump then you will need to remove the exhaust and the rear engine hanger cradle which the engine mountings secure to... probably 6-7 hours.
Unfortunatly this is what happens with these pipe as they are not the best in the world.
If it is the scavange pipework that is leaking then this could of been avoided by leaving the oil catch tanks on the pipework and just remove it off the turbo charger.
Mike
Hi Mike,Shame you are so far away as I would give you a 2nd opinion....you need to find out which pipes are leaking as if it is the oil pressure feed to the turbo charger check valve this can be replaced in around 3-4 hours with engine in..
If it is the oil catch tank pipe work which goes back to the oil scavange pump then you will need to remove the exhaust and the rear engine hanger cradle which the engine mountings secure to... probably 6-7 hours.
Unfortunatly this is what happens with these pipe as they are not the best in the world.
If it is the scavange pipework that is leaking then this could of been avoided by leaving the oil catch tanks on the pipework and just remove it off the turbo charger.
Mike
Thanks, you have given me advise a few times over the years and its much appreciated. I would happily pay you for your time.
I have just remembered that I took 3 pics of these pipes on my phone when I visited to check this however since they told me that it would be fine I deleted 2 of them. I just checked my phone and there is still one... just uploading this now.
They did mention about leaving one of the oil catch tanks on.
I think I will get 3 quotes as a lot of my customers do with me these days and benchmark what they are offering to do.
My concern is that this could have been prevented by a method you are suggesting or perhaps treading a little more carefully?
Thanks
Lee
Lee,
Unfortunately as you know I am at a wedding all day tomorrow otherwise I would come with you. If he is not there tomorrow, don't go and we'll sort something out for the first part of the week. Call me Sunday.
It is bad news given everything else that has gone on, but as you know, I had similar situation with a different pipe, was told it was engine out, agreed to cost, and then it came back only 25% of the price, because one of their guys managed to do it without dropping it. They could have just charged me the full and I would have been none the wiser.
Ken
Unfortunately as you know I am at a wedding all day tomorrow otherwise I would come with you. If he is not there tomorrow, don't go and we'll sort something out for the first part of the week. Call me Sunday.
It is bad news given everything else that has gone on, but as you know, I had similar situation with a different pipe, was told it was engine out, agreed to cost, and then it came back only 25% of the price, because one of their guys managed to do it without dropping it. They could have just charged me the full and I would have been none the wiser.
Ken
Edited by 996ttalot on Friday 5th February 22:11
996ttalot said:
Lee,
Unfortunately as you know I am at a wedding all day tomorrow otherwise I would come with you. If he is not there tomorrow, don't go and we'll sort something out for the first part of the week. Call me Sunday.
It is bad news given everything else that has gone on, but as you know, I had similar situation with a different pipe, was told it was engine out, agreed to cost, and then it came back only 25% of the price, because one of their guys managed to do it without dropping it. They could have just charged me the full and I would have been none the wiser.
Ken
Thanks Ken,Unfortunately as you know I am at a wedding all day tomorrow otherwise I would come with you. If he is not there tomorrow, don't go and we'll sort something out for the first part of the week. Call me Sunday.
It is bad news given everything else that has gone on, but as you know, I had similar situation with a different pipe, was told it was engine out, agreed to cost, and then it came back only 25% of the price, because one of their guys managed to do it without dropping it. They could have just charged me the full and I would have been none the wiser.
Ken
I know they have looked after you and I have been very pleased with the work before now.
Today has really got to me getting a call at 3pm after I was called a week ago to say that the car has been run for an hour and all is OK, I paid today after finally getting the bill yesterday so was ready to pick the car up.
The facilities and attention to detail before today has been very good but I just had to question this and ask others for an opinion.
Cheers
Lee
Hi,
From that picture the oil catch tank is still on the car so that is good... the picture you show is bank 4-6 turbocharger high prerssure oil feed pipe...I can tell you first hand that either leaks or it is ok, not an hour later !
The pipe is £23.56 (99610722072) we have replaced the other side with engine in and took roughly 3-4 hours... not sure about that side.
Mike
From that picture the oil catch tank is still on the car so that is good... the picture you show is bank 4-6 turbocharger high prerssure oil feed pipe...I can tell you first hand that either leaks or it is ok, not an hour later !
The pipe is £23.56 (99610722072) we have replaced the other side with engine in and took roughly 3-4 hours... not sure about that side.
Mike
A response from across the pond, a very well respected tuner.
Markski from 6peedonline said:
WHat? get that car out and run as far as you...
what new pipes? engine removed? ??????
those hard lines to the turbos usually never go bad... I have taken them off and on many times.... even so you can change them without dropping the motor... you lower it within 10 minutes...
OIL? where is it.. on top of the turbo where the oil feeds? if so then they screwed up either the install or the checkvalve is busted thats on top of the turbo and is part of the oil feed line... usually its the install...
If you have oil on the inlet (cold side of the turbo) then maybe they overfilled with oil if you changed it.... or the check valve is busted and not working properly...
aaah... close your wallet .. get it out... find a place that knows whats up...
markski
what new pipes? engine removed? ??????
those hard lines to the turbos usually never go bad... I have taken them off and on many times.... even so you can change them without dropping the motor... you lower it within 10 minutes...
OIL? where is it.. on top of the turbo where the oil feeds? if so then they screwed up either the install or the checkvalve is busted thats on top of the turbo and is part of the oil feed line... usually its the install...
If you have oil on the inlet (cold side of the turbo) then maybe they overfilled with oil if you changed it.... or the check valve is busted and not working properly...
aaah... close your wallet .. get it out... find a place that knows whats up...
markski
sportsandclassic said:
Hi,
From that picture the oil catch tank is still on the car so that is good... the picture you show is bank 4-6 turbocharger high prerssure oil feed pipe...I can tell you first hand that either leaks or it is ok, not an hour later !
The pipe is £23.56 (99610722072) we have replaced the other side with engine in and took roughly 3-4 hours... not sure about that side.
Mike
Thanks MikeFrom that picture the oil catch tank is still on the car so that is good... the picture you show is bank 4-6 turbocharger high prerssure oil feed pipe...I can tell you first hand that either leaks or it is ok, not an hour later !
The pipe is £23.56 (99610722072) we have replaced the other side with engine in and took roughly 3-4 hours... not sure about that side.
Mike
Yes that is the price they have quoted but I have been told that the piped run around the engine so this will need to be removed.
cheers
Lee
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