tenant and repossesion?
Discussion
Hi,
The postman delivered a bomb today
Moved into a nice property in cardiff 2 weeks ago, got it through a agent but they were only finders, its now direct with the landlord!
Today we got 2 letters from a solicitor, one addressed to him one to the tenants, opened the one to us and it as a solicitors letter saying that bank of scotland are repossesing the house and for us to call them,
Called the sol and they said that the landlord is on his last last chance, if he does not pay in 4 days the house will be repossesed within 7 days! (Us homeless)
We have paid over £2500 deposit and £1500 rent up front
Where do we stand?
Will we ever see that money again?
Thanks in advance for any advise
The postman delivered a bomb today
Moved into a nice property in cardiff 2 weeks ago, got it through a agent but they were only finders, its now direct with the landlord!
Today we got 2 letters from a solicitor, one addressed to him one to the tenants, opened the one to us and it as a solicitors letter saying that bank of scotland are repossesing the house and for us to call them,
Called the sol and they said that the landlord is on his last last chance, if he does not pay in 4 days the house will be repossesed within 7 days! (Us homeless)
We have paid over £2500 deposit and £1500 rent up front
Where do we stand?
Will we ever see that money again?
Thanks in advance for any advise
Hi there
I work in lettings and know a bit about this kind of situation. Although the bank can repossess the property and technically make you homeless there is almost no chance of this happening, they would however let you remain and pay them the rental directly until the end of your fixed term and then serve you notice. This would be very bad PR for the mortgage lender and I can’t think of an example of this happening although I must stress that it could happen.
With regards to your £2500 deposit that is safe as the agency you rented through by law has to register it with a government scheme i.e TDS or DPS and is held by the agency and is 100% safe from the landlord or mortgage lender.
Hope this helps.
I work in lettings and know a bit about this kind of situation. Although the bank can repossess the property and technically make you homeless there is almost no chance of this happening, they would however let you remain and pay them the rental directly until the end of your fixed term and then serve you notice. This would be very bad PR for the mortgage lender and I can’t think of an example of this happening although I must stress that it could happen.
With regards to your £2500 deposit that is safe as the agency you rented through by law has to register it with a government scheme i.e TDS or DPS and is held by the agency and is 100% safe from the landlord or mortgage lender.
Hope this helps.
Depends very much on your Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (hereafter STA), but in the main if your STA is for 6 months then the lender has to honour that period/length of tenancy.
The lender will go to Court to seek repossession of the property from the borer/landlord, once granted they will then become your landlord, and will have to make arrangements to receive your rental payments.
Whilst the term of your STA is still running, then your residence in the property is secured, but as soon as the term/period ends, then your tenancy/residency is in doubt, and the lender may well (will have to) issue you with a section 21 Notice, which will be 2 months notice to vacate. Go talk in writing to both the landlord, the lender and in person with your local Citizens Advice Bureau.
If you are within your fixed-term AST when the property you rent is repossessed then the lender must honour that agreement. So, if a bank, building society or other type of lender takes possession of the property, then they have to continue to act as your landlord and appoint a receiver of rent.
Lastly, your deposit may be lost, so consider talking to the agents to see if the deposit was registered under the governments Deposit Bond Scheme, if not then hold back now on rental payments to recover the deposit.
Edited, the above will only apply if your landlord has a Buy To Let mortgage, if he only has a standard home mortgage, then the lender will issue a section 21 2 months Notice immediately the Court grants them repossession.
The lender will go to Court to seek repossession of the property from the borer/landlord, once granted they will then become your landlord, and will have to make arrangements to receive your rental payments.
Whilst the term of your STA is still running, then your residence in the property is secured, but as soon as the term/period ends, then your tenancy/residency is in doubt, and the lender may well (will have to) issue you with a section 21 Notice, which will be 2 months notice to vacate. Go talk in writing to both the landlord, the lender and in person with your local Citizens Advice Bureau.
If you are within your fixed-term AST when the property you rent is repossessed then the lender must honour that agreement. So, if a bank, building society or other type of lender takes possession of the property, then they have to continue to act as your landlord and appoint a receiver of rent.
Lastly, your deposit may be lost, so consider talking to the agents to see if the deposit was registered under the governments Deposit Bond Scheme, if not then hold back now on rental payments to recover the deposit.
Edited, the above will only apply if your landlord has a Buy To Let mortgage, if he only has a standard home mortgage, then the lender will issue a section 21 2 months Notice immediately the Court grants them repossession.
Edited by Wings on Thursday 11th February 13:42
sidekickdmr said:
Ahh, yes, that's the other thing!
Found out he does not have a buy to let mortgage, just a standard one!
The sol I spoke to said I could be chucked out within 11 days (4 days remaining for ll to pay then 7 days notice before repossesion!)
True?
No not true, they require a Court order to evict you and that will take longer than 14 days. I agree with whoever it was above (sorry!) that the lender is unlikely to bung you out initially if you are willing to pay. Found out he does not have a buy to let mortgage, just a standard one!
The sol I spoke to said I could be chucked out within 11 days (4 days remaining for ll to pay then 7 days notice before repossesion!)
True?
One other issue may be what happens about repairs etc. if you stay there.
If you could move fairly easily and you know that your deposit has been protected (did you pay to the agent or to the LL?), has the LL told you if it is protected?
I'd be a bit tempted to get very arsey with the LL now in the hope that you can persuad him to bung you some cash and that you'll go away without taking legal action against him for his behaviour. If you get difficult enough with him you might just manage to get some cash out of him before this completely unravels....(note use of the word cash!).
I think this will probably get worse before it gets better and I'd be looking for a fire escape.
Have a look on Shelter's website I believe that they have some info about this subject....
Extracted from Shelter’s web site,
“Your landlord's lender may try to repossess the property you are renting if your landlord does not keep up with their mortgage payments. If this happens, you may have some protection from eviction if your tenancy is binding on the landlord's lender. If not, your options will be more limited.
Following a joint report by Shelter, Citizens Advice, Crisis and the Chartered Institute of Housing, the Government is currently considering changes to the law, which would mean that many more private tenants would be entitled to two months' notice. However, if you think that repossession by your landlord's lender is a possibility you should get advice immediately as in many cases tenants can still be evicted with very little notice. Use our directory to find an adviser in your area, call our helpline or get advice by email.”
Housing problems can affect anyone. But many people can find it hard to go for advice or just don't know what help is available.
Shelter provides a free, national telephone advice line staffed by trained housing advisers. We have helped thousands of people, from finding them a place to sleep to suggesting how to handle mortgage arrears.
Ring 0808 800 4444
8am-8pm Monday-Friday
8am-5pm Saturday-Sunday
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_se...
“Your landlord's lender may try to repossess the property you are renting if your landlord does not keep up with their mortgage payments. If this happens, you may have some protection from eviction if your tenancy is binding on the landlord's lender. If not, your options will be more limited.
Following a joint report by Shelter, Citizens Advice, Crisis and the Chartered Institute of Housing, the Government is currently considering changes to the law, which would mean that many more private tenants would be entitled to two months' notice. However, if you think that repossession by your landlord's lender is a possibility you should get advice immediately as in many cases tenants can still be evicted with very little notice. Use our directory to find an adviser in your area, call our helpline or get advice by email.”
Housing problems can affect anyone. But many people can find it hard to go for advice or just don't know what help is available.
Shelter provides a free, national telephone advice line staffed by trained housing advisers. We have helped thousands of people, from finding them a place to sleep to suggesting how to handle mortgage arrears.
Ring 0808 800 4444
8am-8pm Monday-Friday
8am-5pm Saturday-Sunday
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_se...
It's not clear from the OP but it is very possible that this is a pre-eviction letter issued because the bank has already obtained a possession order (either outright or suspended). If this is the case then the next step will be a court bailiff's warrant which strictly speaking only needs to give 7 days notice. How long that warrant takes to obtain depends on how busy the bailiff is that deals with the OP's area.
ETA - as you've already mentioned the mortgage wasn't BTL and it's very possible the landlord is in breach of the mortgage conditions. In my experience if the bank wants possession courts will generally take the view that the tenant has no rights in the matter in these circumstances. I've been involved with a number of situations where the tenant is the innocent party in the matter but has still got nowhere.
As already mentioned some lenders will appoint a receiver to manage the property until the end of the fixed term but they're under no obligation to do so if the tenancy isn't binding on them. Obviously it's worth approaching them via their solicitors but they may be unwilling to agree to something that will give you an interest in the property, especially if your rent doesn't cover the mortgage instalments.
As for the deposit, etc, you may be in luck if that's been put into a deposit scheme but otherwise you might struggle to recover anything as it would have to come from the landlord who if he can't pay the mortgage isn't going to refund you anything.
ETA - as you've already mentioned the mortgage wasn't BTL and it's very possible the landlord is in breach of the mortgage conditions. In my experience if the bank wants possession courts will generally take the view that the tenant has no rights in the matter in these circumstances. I've been involved with a number of situations where the tenant is the innocent party in the matter but has still got nowhere.
As already mentioned some lenders will appoint a receiver to manage the property until the end of the fixed term but they're under no obligation to do so if the tenancy isn't binding on them. Obviously it's worth approaching them via their solicitors but they may be unwilling to agree to something that will give you an interest in the property, especially if your rent doesn't cover the mortgage instalments.
As for the deposit, etc, you may be in luck if that's been put into a deposit scheme but otherwise you might struggle to recover anything as it would have to come from the landlord who if he can't pay the mortgage isn't going to refund you anything.
Edited by Andy_GSA on Thursday 11th February 19:21
The lender can't evict the tenants on a repo order against the LL as far as I know. They will require a specific court order against the tenant and my experinece of this type of hearing and county court judges is that judges are very tenant friendly.
I did possession hearings for a Housing Association for a year and I don't think we ever got a possession order enforced even where it was clear that the tenant had been receiving Housing Benefit and blowing it on fags and booze. Ok it was very different as they were a registered social landlord and it was rent arrears but IMV it is very unlikely that a district judge will award a lender immediate possession or even 7 or 14 day possession of a property with tenants in occupation because the LL has defaulted.
If you've ever tried evicting a tenant who isn't paying you will know that the DJ is likely to give them in excess of 4 weeks to go and I doubt their view would be any different in this scenario where the tenant is entirely blameless.
Personally, with all due respect to Shelter, I think they scaremonger on this topic by telling tenants that they have no protection and IME of possession proceedings that is not the case.
Anyway, OP are you out there or are we talking to ourselves?????
I would still get out as soon as I could. What about the deposit - was it taken by the LL or the agent do you know that it is protected?
I'd be looking for somewhere else ASAP and I would seriously consider NOT paying the rent until and unless I knew my deposit was protected. I would also be digging for info on the LL to try to ascertain whether they have assets that would make it worth me issuing proceedings against them for the deposit at a later date. Whether I chose to pay rent or not would depend on what I thought my chances are of getting something back...
I did possession hearings for a Housing Association for a year and I don't think we ever got a possession order enforced even where it was clear that the tenant had been receiving Housing Benefit and blowing it on fags and booze. Ok it was very different as they were a registered social landlord and it was rent arrears but IMV it is very unlikely that a district judge will award a lender immediate possession or even 7 or 14 day possession of a property with tenants in occupation because the LL has defaulted.
If you've ever tried evicting a tenant who isn't paying you will know that the DJ is likely to give them in excess of 4 weeks to go and I doubt their view would be any different in this scenario where the tenant is entirely blameless.
Personally, with all due respect to Shelter, I think they scaremonger on this topic by telling tenants that they have no protection and IME of possession proceedings that is not the case.
Anyway, OP are you out there or are we talking to ourselves?????
I would still get out as soon as I could. What about the deposit - was it taken by the LL or the agent do you know that it is protected?
I'd be looking for somewhere else ASAP and I would seriously consider NOT paying the rent until and unless I knew my deposit was protected. I would also be digging for info on the LL to try to ascertain whether they have assets that would make it worth me issuing proceedings against them for the deposit at a later date. Whether I chose to pay rent or not would depend on what I thought my chances are of getting something back...
Thanks for all the great advise guys and girls!
The deposit and rent went direct to the agent who then sent it to the landlord! The agency have told me that it is the landlords obligation to register the deposit within 14 days!
Spoke to the landlord tonight and demanded an answer, he said that he has recently changed bank accounts and the mortgage payments seem to have not come out his account in error, he has said he will sort it out today! Not sure on that story due to the passsage of time!
Will be phoning the sol today to see if he has paid up in full!
The deposit and rent went direct to the agent who then sent it to the landlord! The agency have told me that it is the landlords obligation to register the deposit within 14 days!
Spoke to the landlord tonight and demanded an answer, he said that he has recently changed bank accounts and the mortgage payments seem to have not come out his account in error, he has said he will sort it out today! Not sure on that story due to the passsage of time!
Will be phoning the sol today to see if he has paid up in full!
Well done, keep the pressure on him. Also ask him for proof that the deposit has been registered - I think the reg is that you have to be provided with proof that it has been registere within 14 (?) days of either the start of the tenancy or the payment of the deposit - Wings or someone else should be able to confirm.
You want to make sure that the deposit is registered.
I think he is bad news and you really need to be building yourself an exit strategy, irritating though that might be having just moved in.
You want to make sure that the deposit is registered.
I think he is bad news and you really need to be building yourself an exit strategy, irritating though that might be having just moved in.
The OP's communications with the LL should be in writing, and as for the Deposit the OP should consider taking the following action to protect his financial interests.
If the landlord or agent has not protected the deposit and provided the required information within 14 days, then you can apply to the County Court for an order that the landlord or agent should pay the Deposit back to you, or protect it in one of the Tenancy Deposit Protection Schemes. The court will also order the landlord or agent to pay you compensation equivalent to three times the value of the deposit you paid.
However, this fine may not apply in instances where the landlord does protect the deposit, but fails to provide the required information within 14 days.
In addition, if your landlord or agent has not protected your deposit and provided the required information within 14 days, then there are restrictions on how they can evict you. Normally, landlords of Assured Shorthold Tenants can evict a tenant by giving you a minimum of two months' notice under section 21 Notice, and then getting a Court order without having to show a reason. This is known as the 'Shorthold Ground'. However, if your landlord or agent hasn't protected your deposit and provided the required information within 14 days, then they cannot use the Shorthold ground to evict you.
If the landlord or agent has not protected the deposit and provided the required information within 14 days, then you can apply to the County Court for an order that the landlord or agent should pay the Deposit back to you, or protect it in one of the Tenancy Deposit Protection Schemes. The court will also order the landlord or agent to pay you compensation equivalent to three times the value of the deposit you paid.
However, this fine may not apply in instances where the landlord does protect the deposit, but fails to provide the required information within 14 days.
In addition, if your landlord or agent has not protected your deposit and provided the required information within 14 days, then there are restrictions on how they can evict you. Normally, landlords of Assured Shorthold Tenants can evict a tenant by giving you a minimum of two months' notice under section 21 Notice, and then getting a Court order without having to show a reason. This is known as the 'Shorthold Ground'. However, if your landlord or agent hasn't protected your deposit and provided the required information within 14 days, then they cannot use the Shorthold ground to evict you.
You have my sympathies as I've been in a similar situation. Don't believe a word of what the landlord says, I heard everything under the sun from him about what was going on and it only became clear when I turned up at the hearing (you can go along as a member of the public to ANY county court hearing) that he'd not paid the mortgage at all in the year or so I'd been there. However, in his case he'd made some (empty, as it turns out) promises to the lender about repaying the arrears so they asked for, and got, a suspended possession order instead. If that happens, it gives you more time to get out of there in a controlled fashion, although it makes it much quicker and easier for the lender to go back and get a full possession order later if they're still not getting paid.
As said, if it was a BTL mortgage, or the lender was otherwise informed about it being letted out, then your tenancy agreement transfers to the lender and it's subject to the terms set out in that. Either it will run to the full term or they serve notice, in the same way as if the landlord wanted you to leave early.
If it was an ordinary residential mortgage and the landlord should have been living there, then your tenancy agreement counts for nothing once the property is repossessed. Ultimately the lender could ask you to leave as soon as the property becomes theirs, with no notice at all. Realistically, they'll take some time to process it, write letters and so on, but they'll most likely want you out of there so it can be sold. If you stayed, the same procedures would be used against you as used against squatters.
Your deposit is protected IF it's been put in one of the deposit schemes. The LL is required to, but if he's in the kind of financial situation where the place is being repossessed, it's not that likely that he has. Request the details of the scheme he's put it into - and verify with the scheme that he has. If that's the case, it's safe. If not, it's either going via the procedures for unprotected deposits (county court can force the deposit to go into a scheme, or repay tenant usually if tenancy has ended) or simply via the small claims court, especially if you paid more rent or other costs than you actually managed to use.
As said, if it was a BTL mortgage, or the lender was otherwise informed about it being letted out, then your tenancy agreement transfers to the lender and it's subject to the terms set out in that. Either it will run to the full term or they serve notice, in the same way as if the landlord wanted you to leave early.
If it was an ordinary residential mortgage and the landlord should have been living there, then your tenancy agreement counts for nothing once the property is repossessed. Ultimately the lender could ask you to leave as soon as the property becomes theirs, with no notice at all. Realistically, they'll take some time to process it, write letters and so on, but they'll most likely want you out of there so it can be sold. If you stayed, the same procedures would be used against you as used against squatters.
Your deposit is protected IF it's been put in one of the deposit schemes. The LL is required to, but if he's in the kind of financial situation where the place is being repossessed, it's not that likely that he has. Request the details of the scheme he's put it into - and verify with the scheme that he has. If that's the case, it's safe. If not, it's either going via the procedures for unprotected deposits (county court can force the deposit to go into a scheme, or repay tenant usually if tenancy has ended) or simply via the small claims court, especially if you paid more rent or other costs than you actually managed to use.
Did your letting agency explain that they would be sending your deposit to the landlord for him to register with TDS/DPS?
If not then as far as you are concerned the letting agency is at fault as you paid your deposit directly to the agency. They are liable for your deposit being repaid you as they paid it to him without your knowledge.
If not then as far as you are concerned the letting agency is at fault as you paid your deposit directly to the agency. They are liable for your deposit being repaid you as they paid it to him without your knowledge.
Piglet said:
The lender can't evict the tenants on a repo order against the LL as far as I know. They will require a specific court order against the tenant and my experinece of this type of hearing and county court judges is that judges are very tenant friendly.
I beg to differ on this one. Whilst I accept the courts take a different view with RSLs my experience with privately let properties is very different. If the tenant is unauthorised and the lender has a possession order then they can execute a warrant against a tenant. I've acted for lenders in plenty of possession actions where there are mortgage arrears on a property where there is an unauthorised tenant and I can't remember a Judge taking any line other than awarding possession for the lender and (when the tenant has attended the hearing) telling them that they've no right to be present and had better start looking for alternative accommodation. My concern for the OP (which I still don't think he has answered) is that there may already have been a possession order made, perhaps prior to them moving in, and the lender is now looking to issue a warrant. If that is the case the situation is a lot more urgent as I've not come across any tenant in these circumstances who has been able to get a warrant suspended without the agreement of the lender.
[quote]
My concern for the OP (which I still don't think he has answered) is that there may already have been a possession order made, perhaps prior to them moving in, and the lender is now looking to issue a warrant. If that is the case the situation is a lot more urgent as I've not come across any tenant in these circumstances who has been able to get a warrant suspended without the agreement of the lender.
[/quote]
not answered because i don't know, all i know is that he is at the very very final stage, if he does not pay in 3 days the house will be repossesd within 10 days (from today)
i have spoken to the ll today and he is still maintaining that it was a simple mistake and he will pay in full on monday but im not sure, will phone the sol monday afternoon and see.
The property is a £365,000 property so im sure he would have noticed a mortgage that big not leaving his account for a long period
My concern for the OP (which I still don't think he has answered) is that there may already have been a possession order made, perhaps prior to them moving in, and the lender is now looking to issue a warrant. If that is the case the situation is a lot more urgent as I've not come across any tenant in these circumstances who has been able to get a warrant suspended without the agreement of the lender.
[/quote]
not answered because i don't know, all i know is that he is at the very very final stage, if he does not pay in 3 days the house will be repossesd within 10 days (from today)
i have spoken to the ll today and he is still maintaining that it was a simple mistake and he will pay in full on monday but im not sure, will phone the sol monday afternoon and see.
The property is a £365,000 property so im sure he would have noticed a mortgage that big not leaving his account for a long period
sidekickdmr said:
not answered because i don't know, all i know is that he is at the very very final stage, if he does not pay in 3 days the house will be repossesd within 10 days (from today)
i have spoken to the ll today and he is still maintaining that it was a simple mistake and he will pay in full on monday but im not sure, will phone the sol monday afternoon and see.
The property is a £365,000 property so im sure he would have noticed a mortgage that big not leaving his account for a long period
There might well be a clue in the wording of the solicitor's letter threatening eviction. Does it state that repossession proceedings will be commenced in 7 days or that a warrant will be issued (or words to that general effect)?i have spoken to the ll today and he is still maintaining that it was a simple mistake and he will pay in full on monday but im not sure, will phone the sol monday afternoon and see.
The property is a £365,000 property so im sure he would have noticed a mortgage that big not leaving his account for a long period
if its a let only, its not the Agents responsibility to put the deposit in the TDS, they just pass it on. I doubt very much whether this LL has placed it. Technically the OP is entitled to 3 times the deposit back as a penalty against the LL, but i dont think he has any money.
My understanding is the Bank can take possesion and the Tenancy is null and void. We sometimes see LPA receverships where they will allow the tennants to stay (if the rent covers the debt) but they will serve a S21 (anyone want a nice Marina flat, 2 bed, 2 baths, balcony, close to city centre, no tenants?).
My understanding is the Bank can take possesion and the Tenancy is null and void. We sometimes see LPA receverships where they will allow the tennants to stay (if the rent covers the debt) but they will serve a S21 (anyone want a nice Marina flat, 2 bed, 2 baths, balcony, close to city centre, no tenants?).
jamescodriver said:
if its a let only, its not the Agents responsibility to put the deposit in the TDS, they just pass it on. I doubt very much whether this LL has placed it. Technically the OP is entitled to 3 times the deposit back as a penalty against the LL, but i dont think he has any money.
My understanding is the Bank can take possesion and the Tenancy is null and void. We sometimes see LPA receverships where they will allow the tennants to stay (if the rent covers the debt) but they will serve a S21 (anyone want a nice Marina flat, 2 bed, 2 baths, balcony, close to city centre, no tenants?).
Back in the late 1980s I knew of a single mum who found herself in the same position as the OP, and although she was on DHSS, because the housing market was so depressed, the lender continued with the/her tenancy agreement.My understanding is the Bank can take possesion and the Tenancy is null and void. We sometimes see LPA receverships where they will allow the tennants to stay (if the rent covers the debt) but they will serve a S21 (anyone want a nice Marina flat, 2 bed, 2 baths, balcony, close to city centre, no tenants?).
Taking into account the Data Protection Act, the OP may be rather restricted in both communicating and receiving information from the lender, but if the OP is to protect his own interests, then surely he should consider doing the same.
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