TVR - good investment?
Discussion
Griffs and Sags seem to be the only ones bucking the downward trend at the moment, and both have limited availability (Griffs 4000? / Sags 200?)
The rest are still dropping. But, the bang for buck factor should cut in again soon.
There's some very special cars out there for not much moola.
ALL imho
Andy
The rest are still dropping. But, the bang for buck factor should cut in again soon.
There's some very special cars out there for not much moola.
ALL imho
Andy
I unfortunately wrote my Mk1 Tuscan off last year but I got more back from the insurance than I paid for it.
My Tuscan Mk2 Convertible is a stunning car that I drive as much as possible.
I could'nt believe the price I got it for and have seen one or two real bargains out there.
Like many TVR's they didnt make very many, about 84 Convertibles depending on who you listen to, so I cant see the value dropping much and because of what I paid I'm sure I not going to loose anything on her.
But please dont let me break this one.
My Tuscan Mk2 Convertible is a stunning car that I drive as much as possible.
I could'nt believe the price I got it for and have seen one or two real bargains out there.
Like many TVR's they didnt make very many, about 84 Convertibles depending on who you listen to, so I cant see the value dropping much and because of what I paid I'm sure I not going to loose anything on her.
But please dont let me break this one.
Guillotine said:
Griffs and Sags seem to be the only ones bucking the downward trend at the moment, and both have limited availability (Griffs 4000? / Sags 200?)
Andy
agree with Andy though I think the Tuscan 2 will also be a good investment for a car, I can only see the prices of the T2 going up and i'm surprised how cheap they are to buy now.Andy
i would guess that the following cars stand the most chance of appreciating,
1)420 seac wedge
2)V8s
3)4.3 precat griff
4)griff 500 se
i think these are the obvious ones, but nothing is certain,
also i think with more cars having chassis work, engine upgrades,resprays,everyone will buy on condition rather than mileage,so get out there and use them and don't be afraid to track them!
1)420 seac wedge
2)V8s
3)4.3 precat griff
4)griff 500 se
i think these are the obvious ones, but nothing is certain,
also i think with more cars having chassis work, engine upgrades,resprays,everyone will buy on condition rather than mileage,so get out there and use them and don't be afraid to track them!
tbdgriff500 said:
i would guess that the following cars stand the most chance of appreciating,
1)420 seac wedge
2)V8s
3)4.3 precat griff
4)griff 500 se
i think these are the obvious ones, but nothing is certain,
also i think with more cars having chassis work, engine upgrades,resprays,everyone will buy on condition rather than mileage,so get out there and use them and don't be afraid to track them!
I'd not single out any model of Griff purely because they are becoming rarer as a breed. I'd wager there's less than 1000 of all types left now.1)420 seac wedge
2)V8s
3)4.3 precat griff
4)griff 500 se
i think these are the obvious ones, but nothing is certain,
also i think with more cars having chassis work, engine upgrades,resprays,everyone will buy on condition rather than mileage,so get out there and use them and don't be afraid to track them!
Also I dunno why you'd pick the SE out as a special case as the modifications, especially dashboard and rear lights are an aquired taste IMO and added nothing of real value.
V8 GRF said:
Also I dunno why you'd pick the SE out as a special case as the modifications, especially dashboard and rear lights are an aquired taste IMO and added nothing of real value.
Yeah your right Dave, they need to be as cheap as chips or no one will ever buy them, you virtually have to give them away 
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1447962.htm
As the cars get older the ones which will fetch the premium prices will those which are original and in top condition. That's been true of all classic cars over the years. I see no reason for TVRs to be any different.
As for investment, well I've got to say no TVRs will reach that rarified level. All you can suggest is that the costs of ownership will be lowered. I would assume that Griffs might well increase in value to an extent but there is no competition history to support the prices in the same way are earlier classic TVRs where prices have really increased.
Chims are at a very low price at the moment and what this normally means is that a damaged one is not worth repairing.
Speed 6 engined cars are another matter. Certainly the Tuscan Convertible is a fabulous and rare car - wouldn't mind one myself - and an original low-mileage one will have that extra bit that attracts buyers. The problem might be in keeping everything original. Whilst replacement parts are all available, some are not original. The same goes for Tuscan IIs but a little less so.
Sagaris - I can't help thinking that that is the one which will become the car they put on the plinth as Wheeler's finest. But still at a price at the moment that I'd say has a little way to go before it hits bottom.
Prices will go up if the £ falls and will fall if the £ goes up as it is often foreign buyers who control values.
So the question is about costs. If you buy a Chim at £6000 it will cost very little in the way of capital over, say, six years if it is maintained in top condition. With a Griff I'd suggest there is a chance of a bit of positive capital gain. Not an investment of course, but still a bit of a bonus.
There used to be a suggestion that you should take into consideration investment costs in such comparisons. For instance, a good Griff starts at, say, £15,000 at the moment whilst the equivalent Chim would be around £8000. Both would cost around the same for servicing and parts over that time. So the Chim is likely to lose, say, £1000 and the Griff perhaps earn that amount. So which is the better value? Opinions may vary.
For the Speed 6 cars you have the added complication of the cars being somewhat newer. So there will probably be some depreciation of the more expensive ones initially regardless. That's a big variable and in reality everything is a guess. Also the on-costs of ownership over the six years are likely to be somewhat higher than the Griff/Chim.
The Tuscan I is a great car but it's biggest problem is the Tuscan II. All of a sudden there's a new king. That said, a Tuscan I in very good condition is a real bargain at the moment. If there is indeed a big difference in handling between the two cars then I am assured this can be sorted quite easily, and not that expensively.
The Tuscan looks are tremendous. Not so much in your face as down your throat. A real stunner. Buy one, keep it in top condition and you've got a car that is great to own and looks the business. Will it still continue to drop in value? I don't know.
With the improvements in the build quality of the engines I've got to say I wonder if the Speed 6 cars will be the dark horses.
I went to Le Mans in a Tuscan. It felt great.
There have been lots and lots of suggestions with other classic cars that they will appreciate hand over fist and it hasn't happened. I nearly bought a Scimitar GTC some years ago at what I thought was a bargain price. All the advice I got was that they would go up in price as they were so rare. I could probably have got the same amount for it now. At the same time I looked at a RV8-engined Stag. A quite stunning conversion. It would have dropped in price by now. Mind you, the advice was that I should leave it. A friend had a P4 Rover 90. We all knew that would go up in price. But it didn't. He spent a small fortune keeping it in good nick as well, especially after a problem with the power-assited brakes. But he had a lot of fun in it, going out to shows and stuff, and all things considered it was a good investment.
It's a very difficult call.
With TVRs, buyers might well be mainly those who are enthusiasts for the marque and will desire a particular model. So someone will come in with £15,000 looking for a quality Griff but if prices do go up then he or she might then look to other TVRs. After all, the Chim is just a more practical Griff. So what might hold back the value of Griffs is that something so very similar is at a price that is considerably lower. Will this keep prices down or will the comparison increase the difference in value? The actual price difference between S2s and S3s has decreased considerably over the last five years. It depends much more on condition now.
And the same might well go for Tuscans Is and IIs.
Membership of the Club has stayed pretty level for some time and this is quite remarkable. It promises to keep values a bit higher.
If my financial 'investments' had lived up to their name I might have been looking for a T350C at this moment. I wouldn't give a damn whether it was a good investment or not.
Please note: my hope for the future of TVR values can go up as well as down.
As for investment, well I've got to say no TVRs will reach that rarified level. All you can suggest is that the costs of ownership will be lowered. I would assume that Griffs might well increase in value to an extent but there is no competition history to support the prices in the same way are earlier classic TVRs where prices have really increased.
Chims are at a very low price at the moment and what this normally means is that a damaged one is not worth repairing.
Speed 6 engined cars are another matter. Certainly the Tuscan Convertible is a fabulous and rare car - wouldn't mind one myself - and an original low-mileage one will have that extra bit that attracts buyers. The problem might be in keeping everything original. Whilst replacement parts are all available, some are not original. The same goes for Tuscan IIs but a little less so.
Sagaris - I can't help thinking that that is the one which will become the car they put on the plinth as Wheeler's finest. But still at a price at the moment that I'd say has a little way to go before it hits bottom.
Prices will go up if the £ falls and will fall if the £ goes up as it is often foreign buyers who control values.
So the question is about costs. If you buy a Chim at £6000 it will cost very little in the way of capital over, say, six years if it is maintained in top condition. With a Griff I'd suggest there is a chance of a bit of positive capital gain. Not an investment of course, but still a bit of a bonus.
There used to be a suggestion that you should take into consideration investment costs in such comparisons. For instance, a good Griff starts at, say, £15,000 at the moment whilst the equivalent Chim would be around £8000. Both would cost around the same for servicing and parts over that time. So the Chim is likely to lose, say, £1000 and the Griff perhaps earn that amount. So which is the better value? Opinions may vary.
For the Speed 6 cars you have the added complication of the cars being somewhat newer. So there will probably be some depreciation of the more expensive ones initially regardless. That's a big variable and in reality everything is a guess. Also the on-costs of ownership over the six years are likely to be somewhat higher than the Griff/Chim.
The Tuscan I is a great car but it's biggest problem is the Tuscan II. All of a sudden there's a new king. That said, a Tuscan I in very good condition is a real bargain at the moment. If there is indeed a big difference in handling between the two cars then I am assured this can be sorted quite easily, and not that expensively.
The Tuscan looks are tremendous. Not so much in your face as down your throat. A real stunner. Buy one, keep it in top condition and you've got a car that is great to own and looks the business. Will it still continue to drop in value? I don't know.
With the improvements in the build quality of the engines I've got to say I wonder if the Speed 6 cars will be the dark horses.
I went to Le Mans in a Tuscan. It felt great.
There have been lots and lots of suggestions with other classic cars that they will appreciate hand over fist and it hasn't happened. I nearly bought a Scimitar GTC some years ago at what I thought was a bargain price. All the advice I got was that they would go up in price as they were so rare. I could probably have got the same amount for it now. At the same time I looked at a RV8-engined Stag. A quite stunning conversion. It would have dropped in price by now. Mind you, the advice was that I should leave it. A friend had a P4 Rover 90. We all knew that would go up in price. But it didn't. He spent a small fortune keeping it in good nick as well, especially after a problem with the power-assited brakes. But he had a lot of fun in it, going out to shows and stuff, and all things considered it was a good investment.
It's a very difficult call.
With TVRs, buyers might well be mainly those who are enthusiasts for the marque and will desire a particular model. So someone will come in with £15,000 looking for a quality Griff but if prices do go up then he or she might then look to other TVRs. After all, the Chim is just a more practical Griff. So what might hold back the value of Griffs is that something so very similar is at a price that is considerably lower. Will this keep prices down or will the comparison increase the difference in value? The actual price difference between S2s and S3s has decreased considerably over the last five years. It depends much more on condition now.
And the same might well go for Tuscans Is and IIs.
Membership of the Club has stayed pretty level for some time and this is quite remarkable. It promises to keep values a bit higher.
If my financial 'investments' had lived up to their name I might have been looking for a T350C at this moment. I wouldn't give a damn whether it was a good investment or not.
Please note: my hope for the future of TVR values can go up as well as down.
V8 GRF said:
tbdgriff500 said:
i would guess that the following cars stand the most chance of appreciating,
1)420 seac wedge
2)V8s
3)4.3 precat griff
4)griff 500 se
i think these are the obvious ones, but nothing is certain,
also i think with more cars having chassis work, engine upgrades,resprays,everyone will buy on condition rather than mileage,so get out there and use them and don't be afraid to track them!
I'd not single out any model of Griff purely because they are becoming rarer as a breed. I'd wager there's less than 1000 of all types left now.1)420 seac wedge
2)V8s
3)4.3 precat griff
4)griff 500 se
i think these are the obvious ones, but nothing is certain,
also i think with more cars having chassis work, engine upgrades,resprays,everyone will buy on condition rather than mileage,so get out there and use them and don't be afraid to track them!
Also I dunno why you'd pick the SE out as a special case as the modifications, especially dashboard and rear lights are an aquired taste IMO and added nothing of real value.
Front lights - an upgrad to 7" H4 giving dipped and main along with better aesthetics
Seats - an upgrade to better seats (Cerberra) with better support every which way in my experience
Alloy and brass vents made in house - An upgrade from Vauxhall/Ford/Parts bin plastic crap
16" wheels all round - An upgrade
Changed Dash - An upgrade getting rid of the silly warning light panel, getting rid of the 'dunno which button does what black buttons, superior heater controls and getting rid of the unnecessary additional panel in front of the gearstick . .
There will inevitably be an exchange of opinion on the merits of the SE's, I for one bought one because they are better than the standard Griffith was IMO. I prefer all of aesthetic elements and I think the other less obvious changes make it a better car for me.
They are likely to always command a premium over the standard cars as they're in shorter supply, simple economics.
So for the modifications not adding any value, how is that many Griffith owners want alloy vent covers, 7" front lights, 16" wheels all round, different seats etc etc etc . .
Wasn't there a stat on MOT's lately that said 1170 or so were MOT'd in 2007? If so, for there to be less than 1000 now we'd have had to have lost 200 in the last 2 yrs not counting those off the road for whatever reason and I doubt they're dying off that quickly.
Edited by Johno on Sunday 14th February 18:17
i would have replied earlier but i have been out hooning!
but it looks like a few have done it for me, perfect answers, enough said!
i bloody love tvr's!
just to add, is it me or are fernies on a mission to up the value of all tvr's, have you seen the prices of some of the chims!!
but it looks like a few have done it for me, perfect answers, enough said!
i bloody love tvr's!
just to add, is it me or are fernies on a mission to up the value of all tvr's, have you seen the prices of some of the chims!!
Edited by tbdgriff500 on Sunday 14th February 18:30
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Johno said:
Rear lights . . a matter of personal preference
Front lights - an upgrad to 7" H4 giving dipped and main along with better aesthetics
Seats - an upgrade to better seats (Cerberra) with better support every which way in my experience
Alloy and brass vents made in house - An upgrade from Vauxhall/Ford/Parts bin plastic crap
16" wheels all round - An upgrade
Changed Dash - An upgrade getting rid of the silly warning light panel, getting rid of the 'dunno which button does what black buttons, superior heater controls and getting rid of the unnecessary additional panel in front of the gearstick . .
There will inevitably be an exchange of opinion on the merits of the SE's, I for one bought one because they are better than the standard Griffith was IMO. I prefer all of aesthetic elements and I think the other less obvious changes make it a better car for me.
They are likely to always command a premium over the standard cars as they're in shorter supply, simple economics.
So for the modifications not adding any value, how is that many Griffith owners want alloy vent covers, 7" front lights, 16" wheels all round, different seats etc etc etc . .
Wasn't there a stat on MOT's lately that said 1170 or so were MOT'd in 2007? If so, for there to be less than 1000 now we'd have had to have lost 200 in the last 2 yrs not counting those off the road for whatever reason and I doubt they're dying off that quickly.
Got to admit I would love a Griffith 500SE, not sure about the original Cerbera seats though.Front lights - an upgrad to 7" H4 giving dipped and main along with better aesthetics
Seats - an upgrade to better seats (Cerberra) with better support every which way in my experience
Alloy and brass vents made in house - An upgrade from Vauxhall/Ford/Parts bin plastic crap
16" wheels all round - An upgrade
Changed Dash - An upgrade getting rid of the silly warning light panel, getting rid of the 'dunno which button does what black buttons, superior heater controls and getting rid of the unnecessary additional panel in front of the gearstick . .
There will inevitably be an exchange of opinion on the merits of the SE's, I for one bought one because they are better than the standard Griffith was IMO. I prefer all of aesthetic elements and I think the other less obvious changes make it a better car for me.
They are likely to always command a premium over the standard cars as they're in shorter supply, simple economics.
So for the modifications not adding any value, how is that many Griffith owners want alloy vent covers, 7" front lights, 16" wheels all round, different seats etc etc etc . .
Wasn't there a stat on MOT's lately that said 1170 or so were MOT'd in 2007? If so, for there to be less than 1000 now we'd have had to have lost 200 in the last 2 yrs not counting those off the road for whatever reason and I doubt they're dying off that quickly.
Edited by Johno on Sunday 14th February 18:17
I'm confident my V8S is worth about 3k more than I paid for it 3 years ago and my wedge is worth 1-2k more than a8 months ago (but I bought very cheap). My cerb will be worth less though. None of that matters as I don't intend to sell.
It's very hard to predict what will become 'desireable' in the sense of making them ever more valuable. The V8S, some Griffs, some wedges, Sagaris may have the best chance perhaps.
It's very hard to predict what will become 'desireable' in the sense of making them ever more valuable. The V8S, some Griffs, some wedges, Sagaris may have the best chance perhaps.
I think there is another factor to be considered and that is the price of brand new cars. With increasing raw material prices, the alomst inevitable increase in VAT and inflation after the General Election and Labour's wonderful new purchase tax you have to pay an awful lot of money for a car with equivalent performance. Unbelievably the running costs of TVRs are now barable too so good examples that aren't going to be a money pit and now looking like really good value. That must increase demand and prices.
My forecast is for prices to continue to rise steadily over the next year or so until inflation really starts to get a grip and then watch them rocket. Give it two years and we'll see an SE selling for it's original purchase price and all other Griffs will fall into line beneath it.
My forecast is for prices to continue to rise steadily over the next year or so until inflation really starts to get a grip and then watch them rocket. Give it two years and we'll see an SE selling for it's original purchase price and all other Griffs will fall into line beneath it.
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