Cheap track days for PH'ers! no promises yet though, sorry

[ben10]

Simply put, I reckon track days are too expensive and i am going to have a look into setting a few up running as a "not for profit" organisation or something similar.
I am thinking it will be around £60-£70 per car (no extra charge for a second person)
just need to ask a few questions from fellow PH'ers:

-Firstly, how many of you would be interested?
-How much track time do you normally get on track day? (the ones that arent open pitlane) - I am thinking that we would have to put more groups out there to allow for the lower costs.
-Has anyone got any suggestions that may help this work better? - or something that you think is missing from a track day that we may be able to add?

As i have said im not looking to make a profit from this, just looking for a way of cheaper trackdays for all of us. If i do get it going, can i call on any of you for a helping hand on the day?
I would aim to get at least 4 trackdays in the first year and then go up from there.

I also think i may be able to reduce costs if i can get some sponsorship for the company which i will start looking into once i know how much interest i can generate

[sfaulds]

LOL

[philmorris]

Oh sweet Jesus - but it has to be satire, doesn't it?

[shim]

great idea but it is time consuming and no fun if you are running it

look at Lotus On Track who are non profit to give you an idea of actual zero profit TD fees


good luck, ill buy some off yer if you get there

[ben10]

shim said:

great idea but it is time consuming and no fun if you are running it

look at Lotus On Track who are non profit to give you an idea of actual zero profit TD fees


good luck, ill buy some off yer if you get there

Thanks for the constructive reply shim, I will have a look at lotus on track and possibly go on one of their days (assuming you dont need a lotus)

depending on what other feedback i get i will probably try to do at least 1 and see how it goes. worst comes to the worst then i will just have to not do another one. my biggest concern is that if i am running with no profit then i cant afford to have any empty spaces on the track days as it will mean losing money. I will post up on PH if i am going ahead with it and will do my best to give you a nudge if you dont see it.

[A911DOM]

Ive got no idea how much it costs to hire the track, and have marshalls etc onsite - but Im guessing a lot of people have put quite a bit of thought into this in the past...

Maybe they are now cruising round in flash cars and could lower the costs a bit, but its going to take some doing!

Sadly Im not likely to be able to take advantage (although you never know) of your cheap rate Track Days from where I am - but if it can be done then good luck to you.

Its gonna be a lot of work though fella!

[mmm-five]

There's a few things you'd have to consider before doing anything like this.

1) How are you going to pay for the track day?

• You pay up-front and hope to get all that money back (you might end up heavily out of pocket)
• You ask for deposits and pay the track as you get them - but who pays the outstanding balance when due (you might end up out of pocket)
• You ask for the payment up-front - the drivers have to trust you won't do a runner with their money (and if the money is put somewhere secure then it can't be paid to the track)
• Cancellation policy (do people get all their money back, a percentage, or is it their own risk?)

2) What circuits / locations / days?

• Airfield type days, which are cheap, but quite hard on cars? (£1000-£4000)
• Smaller, independent tracks which are cheaper but more out of the way and have less facilities? (£2000-£10000)
• Large internationally-renowned circuits which will be very expensive and want payment with a few weeks? (£5000-£30000)
• Weekends which are expensive? (£4000-£30000)
• Mondays or Fridays which are cheaper than weekends, but more expensive than mid-week? (£3000-£25000)
• Tue-Thur which are cheaper, but more difficult to sell due to having to do everything (travel, accommodation, etc) on a work day? (£1000-£15000)

3) Insurance

• Public liability
• Personal liability
• Professional liability

4) Rules

• One warning then home?
• Yellow card system?
• Free for all?

5) Marshals and safety crew

• £50-£75/day for a licensed marshal (or just fuel & food expenses if you're lucky)
• Ambulance
• Fire tender
• Recovery vehicle
• Rescue vehicle

6) Lots of other stuff I can't remember

Edited by mmm-five on Wednesday 17th February 12:00

[E36GUY]

mmm-five said:

There's a few things you'd have to consider before doing anything like this.

1) How are you going to pay for the track day?

• You pay up-front and hope to get all that money back (you might end up heavily out of pocket)
• You ask for deposits and pay the track as you get them - but who pays the outstanding balance when due (you might end up out of pocket)
• You ask for the payment up-front - the drivers have to trust you won't do a runner with their money (and if the money is put somewhere secure then it can't be paid to the track)
• Cancellation policy (do people get all their money back, a percentage, or is it their own risk?)

2) What circuits / locations / days?

• Airfield type days, which are cheap, but quite hard on cars? (£1000-£4000)
• Smaller, independent tracks which are cheaper but more out of the way and have less facilities? (£2000-£10000)
• Large internationally-renowned circuits which will be very expensive and want payment with a few weeks? (£5000-£30000)
• Weekends which are expensive? (£4000-£30000)
• Mondays or Fridays which are cheaper than weekends, but more expensive than mid-week? (£3000-£25000)
• Tue-Thur which are cheaper, but more difficult to sell due to having to do everything (travel, accommodation, etc) on a work day? (£1000-£15000)

3) Insurance

• Public liability
• Personal liability
• Professional liability

4) Rules

• One warning then home?
• Yellow card system?
• Free for all?

5) Marshals and safety crew

• £50-£75/day for a licensed marshal (or just fuel & food expenses if you're lucky)
• Ambulance
• Fire tender
• Recovery vehicle
• Rescue vehicle

6) Lots of other stuff I can't remember

Edited by mmm-five on Wednesday 17th February 12:00

Quite right. The target price of £60-70 is totally unrealistic I am afraid.

[chris7676]

You seem too idealistic without much experience. Even if you want it non-profit, you still need to get it organised in a proper way and there will be money and hassle involved. Plus, I don't think I would be up for a sessioned day to save a bit.
And Lotus on Track prices are quite decent, have a look anyway.

[A911DOM]

Not that anyone wants to put you off, if you can offer something for less, make it work, make it fun for all involved (including yourself) then good luck to you.

I had given thought to basing my track car in the UK and travelling for pre-arranged events - so if there is the availability of 'budget' days with a good bunch of guys there - then thats all good!

Keep us posted on your findings - either way!

[git-r]

I'd certainly be up for your trackdays..
There currently is a huge amount of piss taking by certain trackday companies with what they charge. MSV will literally double it's price according to season and amazingly people will pay.
Other companies claim to be very cheap but end up charging for things that would normally be free and having too many cars signed in for the day..

Magazines are very irresponsible in their blatant 'give us free track days and we'll say your the best' campaign. Such obvious back scratching is sickening when so many of track day goers seem to have no common sense when booking their trackdays...
How one company can charge twice what another does for the same track at the same time of year is incredible.

Focused events have tapped into the budget trackday market very well so you might want to check them out (as well as Lotus on Track). As with most things they are far from perfect so always room for some competion.

I have looked into putting on track days myself and you could either make or lose a lot of money.
Start with an evening session and see how you get on as your gamble will be a lot less.

This country has a great track day scene (better than anywhere else in europe) but in typical British stlye we pay whatever cost without question.

Good luck and go for it!

Cheers,
Sam

[HereBeMonsters]

chris7676 said:

You seem too idealistic without much experience.

[NorthernExposure]

buy a BMW and do a BMW owners tack day - Oulton, Croft, Cadwell..possibly Silverstone too this year...just paid £120 being a non-member for Oulton open-pit-lane last week

Edited by NorthernExposure on Wednesday 17th February 14:14

Edited by NorthernExposure on Wednesday 17th February 14:14

[mmm-five]

NorthernExposure said:

buy a BMW and do a BMW owners tack day - Oulton, Croft, Cadwell..possibly Silverstone too this year...just paid £120 being a non-member for Oulton open-pit-lane last week

If I remember correctly, that wouldn't have broken even had it not been for the raffle & paid for passenger rides.

[NorthernExposure]

only reason for that was because it wasn't fully booked, only 40 cars instead of 60...mainly due to people not bothering for fear of bad weather..I've been on many BMW days and they've all previously sold out.

[ben10]

I have spoken to rockingham raceway before and there are 2 options for this track - National track or international track. The international track is obviously more expensive but you can get more people on so it workss out cheaper per person.


It will cost £13,500 for the international track, (In the summer on a weekend)40 people allowed on track at any one time and put 4 groups of 40 out. - If people dont object to 5 groups then it could be even cheaper!
This would mean charging around £90 per car based on 4 groups of 40 people,
or charging around £70 if there were 5 groups of 40.

Thanks for all the help everyone and please keep it coming based on the new info.

[HereBeMonsters]

ben10 said:

It will cost £13,500 for the international track, (In the summer on a weekend)40 people allowed on track at any one time and put 4 groups of 40 out. - If people dont object to 5 groups then it could be even cheaper!
This would mean charging around £90 per car based on 4 groups of 40 people

So, about the same cost as a normal trackday then. If you can get 160 people to attend. Who all don't mind having 15 mins on track 45 off, all day...

[ben10]

Having looked around i couldnt find any Rockingham International circuit days for this price or near it but if there is then my apologies.

Edit: Also remember that is cost per car not per person.

Edited by ben10 on Wednesday 17th February 17:19

[Mark UB]

Personally I would rather pay more for fewer numbers and less numptys on track but good luck.

[chris7676]

M25 or M1 works lots cheaper per person, not that is very exciting
Just to give you an idea open pit lane day on Rocky this year ranges from £130 (LOT) to £245 (BAT). I would never consider anything so heavily sessioned, even 20mins driving and 40 waiting are not good for me, though some may be ok with it.