ARE TWIN ENGINED CARS ILLEGAL. (Twinnies)
Discussion
Well folks I am building a thing called a "Twinnysprint". This consists of a 1967 Auto Mini which has had 7" removed between the floor and the top of the roof. It is also going to be 4WD. Ie; two transverse engines each driving 2 wheels. The engines will be identical spec and be controlled by a common clutch master and independent throttle cables, operated by one pedal. The rear engine will have no reverse gear (removed for the linkage modifications). the rear engine will be isolatable in two ways. One by a line lock on the rear clutch and one by a disconnectable rear gear linkage. This will be for economy reasons if I decide I need them. I have heard that along with nitrous oxide, twin engined cars such as this are illegal on British roads. Please educate my ignorance.
Thanks x100 stu
Thanks x100 stu
Thing is the engines are independent. Z-Cars bike (X2) engined thing was driving only the back wheels. God knows what the Caterham thing was up to. I think it goes along the lines of "if one engine fails, the car is severely upset handling wise with 2 engines a lot more so than 1". I will email Z-Cars and see what they have to say about it. Meanwhile, any other ideas.
Stu
Stu
The Z Cars Tiger Z100WR Seven replica is 4WD one engine driving each pair.
The way they get over the reverse gear (which it MUST have to be legal) is by using an electric motor on the single engine mini conversion and a Quaife electromagnetic transfer box on the twin engine.
Any pics of the build so far?
If you are chopping how are you maintaining the structural rigidity of the car as it wont have much of a floor left if you are driving the rear wheels with a bike engine in the back...
The way they get over the reverse gear (which it MUST have to be legal) is by using an electric motor on the single engine mini conversion and a Quaife electromagnetic transfer box on the twin engine.
Any pics of the build so far?
If you are chopping how are you maintaining the structural rigidity of the car as it wont have much of a floor left if you are driving the rear wheels with a bike engine in the back...
kneegrow said:
Thing is the engines are independent. Z-Cars bike (X2) engined thing was driving only the back wheels. ...
Stu
I thought that Z-cars has two twin engined tigers. One had 2*900cc engines and rwd. The other was 2*1200 engines and 4wd. I thought that the 4*4 one was one engine driving the front and one driving the rear?
www.zcars.org.uk/z100wr.htm
Edited to add - Think I posted this 30 secs too late!
I also saw Scrappy races and am confused as to what is allowed!
>> Edited by RichardD on Thursday 12th February 15:30
Well, I knew my mate had heard about it somewhere. I wonder if the 4wd "Tiger Twinny" actually had some method of coupling the engines? The Twin engined taxi might have been taking it easy "Just in case", there is a lot of banter about whet really happened to John Coopers brother in "That" Twinny, the one which went out of control when a steering arm broke at 100+mph. I suggested that it might be illegal on another website and got a load of abuse back. The bottom line is.....
If I get pulled by a cop and I have 2 engines driving 2 axles, am I in a lot of trouble if I haven't been going to fast otherwise?
stu
If I get pulled by a cop and I have 2 engines driving 2 axles, am I in a lot of trouble if I haven't been going to fast otherwise?
stu
Probably so from what you describe but chapter and verse defeats me.
There is a plethora of EEC Regs/Law on approval of design, construction, equipment and markings under Type Approval, from which Sec of State can give certificates of conformity etc. If you can get hold of Road Traffic Act 1988 (local reference Library)have a look at Sections 41, 54 onwards. It is an offence not to have these.
I understand that Kit car suppliers have taken this route so they are OK.
Suggest because of the specialist nature of your question you go to the very top and seek advice (and thereby take out an Insurance policy) from VOSA
(Vehicle and Operator Services Agency - the old Min of Transport)
If it ever gets on the road let us know what Insurance Policy costs. I will also be in a position to keep out of its way????
Serving BiB's over to you.
DVD
There is a plethora of EEC Regs/Law on approval of design, construction, equipment and markings under Type Approval, from which Sec of State can give certificates of conformity etc. If you can get hold of Road Traffic Act 1988 (local reference Library)have a look at Sections 41, 54 onwards. It is an offence not to have these.
I understand that Kit car suppliers have taken this route so they are OK.
Suggest because of the specialist nature of your question you go to the very top and seek advice (and thereby take out an Insurance policy) from VOSA
(Vehicle and Operator Services Agency - the old Min of Transport)
If it ever gets on the road let us know what Insurance Policy costs. I will also be in a position to keep out of its way????
Serving BiB's over to you.
DVD
DubSport in Wigan have made several twin engine cars inluding a Mk3 Golf with one turbocharged VR6 in the front and one in the back. Basically two front subframes of a Golf, one at either end with just one set steering. Gearstick was linked to each gearbox. No mechanical coupling (drive) between front and back. Not sure if they are road legal. Their website is waay out of date but has some info on the car I believe - <a href="http://www.dubsport.com">www.dubsport.com</a>
>> Edited by roop on Thursday 12th February 15:46
>> Edited by roop on Thursday 12th February 15:46
Well, I was on the phone to "Footman James" and I said "look before I take out a policy, What will happen to my premium when I hjgkshdfasdfasdf to it?" the woman seemed to think it shouldn't alter my premium (£116 Fully Comp, Unlimited Milage). Anyway, I am thinking that uncoupled is illegal. That fits with what everyone has said so far. I wonder if you could get around that by fitting some sort of "mutual kill" electronic gubbins........
stu
stu
A few (well OK a lot) of years ago, there was a twin engined Scirroco driven by Kim Mather tha t used to compete in the n/w tarmac rally championship. It had a turbo'd front engine and supercharged rear engine. To cool the brakes, it had a 5 litre tank of water that pumped water onto the front discs when the brake pedal was pressed.
I remember being alongside to it at a special stage start and it lifted its front o/side wheel off the ground as it set off.
Mental machine!!
I remember being alongside to it at a special stage start and it lifted its front o/side wheel off the ground as it set off.
Mental machine!!
Plotloss said:
The Z Cars Tiger Z100WR Seven replica is 4WD one engine driving each pair.
The way they get over the reverse gear (which it MUST have to be legal) is by using an electric motor on the single engine mini conversion and a Quaife electromagnetic transfer box on the twin engine.
I looked at the twin engined tiger when I bought my kit, money unfortunately beat me senseless.
The Tiger Z100WR couples the engine through a bespoke (indeed quaife) box which is then distributed between the wheels.
it doesn't have to have reverse, and infact didn't when I took one out... makes a pig of a job while parking!!
I did also ask the guy at the SVA station in nottingham about the legalities, and subject to emissions there was no physical reason why two engines should fail.... this is of course assuming that they have been bolted in place correctly!.
Although I am happy with mine, there is part of me that thinks I should have pushed that little harder to get it. after all it sounds awesome, and because the engines technically run independant of each other, they don't have to be in the same gear (within reason), and they dont even have to be running at all!! - well, one of them does obviously!
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