how to help alcoholic friend?
Discussion
Apologies in advance for this long post.
A friend of mine of 25 years is in the advanced stages of alcoholism. It’s hard to say how much he’s drinking but he definitely has an addiction problem which has meant that his wife has just left him, he hasn’t worked in two years, and has all but cut himself off from his friends and family.
He’s in denial about the problem and is claiming that the panic attacks and depression are the reason for his lying and avoidance of anyone who attempts to help him or confront the issue. His health insurance has paid for him to go to a couple of private hospitals. When in them he has appeared to make progress, but then is discharged when the staff say they need to move him to an alcohol and drug dependency section. And anyway now all the health insurance money is gone, although he can comfortably drink at home as he’s supported by income protection insurance.
Although I’m his oldest friend and live half a mile away he continually avoids me, by agreeing to meet when we talk on the phone, and then blowing me out an hour before the actual time I’m supposed to be round at his. He won’t answer the door when it’s knocked on after I ambushed him last June so in reality I’ve only seen him twice in two years (although I have plenty of evidence of his drink problem via his father and ex wife). I recently found out he’d been keeping his dad who lives hundreds of miles away at bay by telling him that he and I were seeing each other twice a week.
He’s admitted to me that he has a problem a couple of times on the phone, and has said he wants to get help, but I don’t think he really does. I’ve spoken to the AA and various other alcohol abuse agencies. All have told me the same thing – that he can only get help if he actively seeks it, as I thought that if I could get him sectioned then he’d get the help he badly needs.
I’m going to doorstep him with another mate when the latter’s over from Sydney in a month’s time, and try to get him to come to an AA meeting which I’ll time with the ‘door-stepping’. I’ve already tried getting all his old friends to write to him urging him to get help.
Beyond that I don’t know what to do. His dad’s very old now and can’t make him see sense. He’s fallen out with his brother, and all the alcohol agencies tell me that I need to persuade him to come to a meeting. Not easy when he won’t see anyone or admit he has a problem – plus he always was well known as the laziest of our group of friends - and is the last person I’d credit with the extreme willpower required to overcome an addiction.
Anyway, as I said – apologies for the long and slightly unstructured post. If anyone has any experience or bright ideas I’d welcome them, as he’s already in the third stage of alcoholism as defined by the AA, and the fourth and final one isn’t a good one.
A friend of mine of 25 years is in the advanced stages of alcoholism. It’s hard to say how much he’s drinking but he definitely has an addiction problem which has meant that his wife has just left him, he hasn’t worked in two years, and has all but cut himself off from his friends and family.
He’s in denial about the problem and is claiming that the panic attacks and depression are the reason for his lying and avoidance of anyone who attempts to help him or confront the issue. His health insurance has paid for him to go to a couple of private hospitals. When in them he has appeared to make progress, but then is discharged when the staff say they need to move him to an alcohol and drug dependency section. And anyway now all the health insurance money is gone, although he can comfortably drink at home as he’s supported by income protection insurance.
Although I’m his oldest friend and live half a mile away he continually avoids me, by agreeing to meet when we talk on the phone, and then blowing me out an hour before the actual time I’m supposed to be round at his. He won’t answer the door when it’s knocked on after I ambushed him last June so in reality I’ve only seen him twice in two years (although I have plenty of evidence of his drink problem via his father and ex wife). I recently found out he’d been keeping his dad who lives hundreds of miles away at bay by telling him that he and I were seeing each other twice a week.
He’s admitted to me that he has a problem a couple of times on the phone, and has said he wants to get help, but I don’t think he really does. I’ve spoken to the AA and various other alcohol abuse agencies. All have told me the same thing – that he can only get help if he actively seeks it, as I thought that if I could get him sectioned then he’d get the help he badly needs.
I’m going to doorstep him with another mate when the latter’s over from Sydney in a month’s time, and try to get him to come to an AA meeting which I’ll time with the ‘door-stepping’. I’ve already tried getting all his old friends to write to him urging him to get help.
Beyond that I don’t know what to do. His dad’s very old now and can’t make him see sense. He’s fallen out with his brother, and all the alcohol agencies tell me that I need to persuade him to come to a meeting. Not easy when he won’t see anyone or admit he has a problem – plus he always was well known as the laziest of our group of friends - and is the last person I’d credit with the extreme willpower required to overcome an addiction.
Anyway, as I said – apologies for the long and slightly unstructured post. If anyone has any experience or bright ideas I’d welcome them, as he’s already in the third stage of alcoholism as defined by the AA, and the fourth and final one isn’t a good one.
Cheers. As you've both said, I really don't think there's anything else that anyone can do. And that myself, his dad and his ex-wife will just have to wait for him to reach the bottom and decide he has to get support. I wanted to post here in the hope that I'd missed something that might help.
ND - hope things work out with your sister...
ND - hope things work out with your sister...
The only other way to get him help other than waiting until he's reading to ask for it) is to wait until he is so ill from his drinking (mentally or physically) that he qualifies for emergency admission for that, and therefore will be helped to dry out, at least temporarily.
I've had to watch 2 relatives self destruct in this way (not both with alcohol though, but only one still living) and have come to the conclusion that there comes a point where you just have to step back from the situation to protect yourself. I'm sorry.
I've had to watch 2 relatives self destruct in this way (not both with alcohol though, but only one still living) and have come to the conclusion that there comes a point where you just have to step back from the situation to protect yourself. I'm sorry.
My father was an alcoholic many years ago and like many alcoholics was in denial. He did eventually make himself so ill that he suffered a stroke in his 40's and was obviously admitted to hospital. Luckily the stroke didn't do any damage (he was extremely lucky) and it gave him the jolt that he so desperately needed. After recovering from the stroke he went to a specialist NHS clinic to help recovering alcoholics, I am glad to report he turned his life round became a successful businessman and never drank another drop of alcohol. He died 20 years later of something completely unrelated but lived life to the full, had many great friends and was a wonderful father.
So I think what I am trying to say is that there is hope for your friend however slim it may seem. It is a truly awful disease and can have a terrible effect on all the people around them so as others have said you need to make sure you look after yourself too.
So I think what I am trying to say is that there is hope for your friend however slim it may seem. It is a truly awful disease and can have a terrible effect on all the people around them so as others have said you need to make sure you look after yourself too.
Nolar Dog said:
My sister is an alcoholic too.
Problem is, like your friend she won't admit it.
There's nothing you can do for them until they do (admit it).
Absolutely agree.Problem is, like your friend she won't admit it.
There's nothing you can do for them until they do (admit it).
The hardest thing is to watch someone you care about go through this. But there is no other way. Until the person with the addiction realises that they have to stop and are prepared to do what it takes to address the addiction AND the reasons why the addiction started in the first place there is nothing you can do.
It may leave you feeling helpless, miserable and useless, but there is nothing you can do to help. Not until they are ready. I've seen people piss their lives away for years before they reach rock bottom, but if that is what it takes for them to realise, then that's the way it has to be.
Sorry, not a nice answer to read, but the brutal reality of addiction.
He's drinking as a way to help or avoid something he doesn't want or cannot face. As long as drink is an option and seems to help then he'll never stop. You can't really do much more than you are doing so just try not to feel any guilt as it's not your fault and there is probably nothing you could do to make it better. It's all up to him.
All said, really. There isn't much you can do. He'll have to reach rock bottom and decide he doesn't like it. Then, maybe, he'll come back. If he chooses this, be the support that you seem to want to be.
The only other thing I can add is, how is his health? Is he on medication? Some of our long term drugs can cause depression, sometimes to the point of suicide.
The only other thing I can add is, how is his health? Is he on medication? Some of our long term drugs can cause depression, sometimes to the point of suicide.
There's nothing you or anyone else can do.
VOE: One morning I woke up and realised I was looking over the edge of a cliff: if I fell there would probably be no way back. I stopped drinking, was able to rebuild my nearly broken relationship and started a road of exploration and discovery to find out why I'd turned from a moderate drinker and someone who was occasionally happily sozzled to an outrageous and obnoxious permanent drunk.
I now have two gorgeous little girls and love track days. I've even dipped my toes in the water of motorsport (did a Sprint last year and have a season of gthem planned this year).
Your mate can turn his life around but he has to want to do it. You, nor anyone else can do it for him.
VOE: One morning I woke up and realised I was looking over the edge of a cliff: if I fell there would probably be no way back. I stopped drinking, was able to rebuild my nearly broken relationship and started a road of exploration and discovery to find out why I'd turned from a moderate drinker and someone who was occasionally happily sozzled to an outrageous and obnoxious permanent drunk.
I now have two gorgeous little girls and love track days. I've even dipped my toes in the water of motorsport (did a Sprint last year and have a season of gthem planned this year).
Your mate can turn his life around but he has to want to do it. You, nor anyone else can do it for him.
Thanks everyone for replying.
FYI grumbledoak – he’s been on various anti-depressants, but from what I’ve heard from a couple of alcohol clinics the booze would nullify their intended effect. He says they keep him up all night, and that his GP keeps changing them - but it’s hard to determine the truth from the lies.
Anyway, thanks again everyone. Appreciate it. It’s helped me reconcile the fact that there’s nothing that seemingly can be done except be there if/when he genuinely decides he wants to get better.
FYI grumbledoak – he’s been on various anti-depressants, but from what I’ve heard from a couple of alcohol clinics the booze would nullify their intended effect. He says they keep him up all night, and that his GP keeps changing them - but it’s hard to determine the truth from the lies.
Anyway, thanks again everyone. Appreciate it. It’s helped me reconcile the fact that there’s nothing that seemingly can be done except be there if/when he genuinely decides he wants to get better.
A quick update.
My friend is living off a permanent health insurance policy which keeps him well funded – and which I’m sure isn’t helping things as it means he has no motivation to do anything apart from sit at home and drink.
He will have told the insurance company that he has depression and panic attacks which is true, but he won’t have mentioned their root cause: the booze because (i) he’s in denial anyway and (ii) they’ll stop paying out.
It turns out that the company is now sending specialists round to his house to help him keep his mind occupied (that’s what he told me) in order to aid his likelihood of being able to get back to work.
My question is, does anyone have any experience of how these insurance companies work in situations like this? Maybe I’m being too cynical, but I assume they’ll be looking for signs that include alcoholism so they can declare the policy null and void.
My reason for asking is that if they do flush him out then things will come to a head. I’m going to stay well away from this particular development, but just wondered where these ‘visits’ could lead to.
Thanks everyone.
My friend is living off a permanent health insurance policy which keeps him well funded – and which I’m sure isn’t helping things as it means he has no motivation to do anything apart from sit at home and drink.
He will have told the insurance company that he has depression and panic attacks which is true, but he won’t have mentioned their root cause: the booze because (i) he’s in denial anyway and (ii) they’ll stop paying out.
It turns out that the company is now sending specialists round to his house to help him keep his mind occupied (that’s what he told me) in order to aid his likelihood of being able to get back to work.
My question is, does anyone have any experience of how these insurance companies work in situations like this? Maybe I’m being too cynical, but I assume they’ll be looking for signs that include alcoholism so they can declare the policy null and void.
My reason for asking is that if they do flush him out then things will come to a head. I’m going to stay well away from this particular development, but just wondered where these ‘visits’ could lead to.
Thanks everyone.
crystalmethod said:
My reason for asking is that if they do flush him out then things will come to a head.
Can't comment on the insurance company, but on this part - I wouldn't get your hopes up."Damn insurance companies will say anything to wriggle out of paying!"
instead of
"Oh my, maybe the insurance company have a valid point and I do have a dependency on alcohol"
Christ, this is pretty savage.
They will get better when they see fit and absolutely nothing you or anyone else can do will change this.
You can put them in rehab and they'll come out on the piss again.
When they want to get better, they'll get a grip.
I watched my mates flatmate who oddly enough had everything lose the lot. I saw him put in rehab, get locked up, etc, etc. Everyone putting the effort in for him.
I hear he's been dry now for 2 years and is getting his life together.
Sadly, you have to outline this to him, don't play the game and say "you can f
k yourself up as much as possible and when you want to be fixed, I'm here to help, but until then, I don't want anything to do with you". Everyone has to take this line, including his parents.
If he kills himself in the meantime, that's just the way it is.
There is nothing you can do until he decides to accept/seek help.
They will get better when they see fit and absolutely nothing you or anyone else can do will change this.
You can put them in rehab and they'll come out on the piss again.
When they want to get better, they'll get a grip.
I watched my mates flatmate who oddly enough had everything lose the lot. I saw him put in rehab, get locked up, etc, etc. Everyone putting the effort in for him.
I hear he's been dry now for 2 years and is getting his life together.
Sadly, you have to outline this to him, don't play the game and say "you can f
k yourself up as much as possible and when you want to be fixed, I'm here to help, but until then, I don't want anything to do with you". Everyone has to take this line, including his parents. If he kills himself in the meantime, that's just the way it is.
There is nothing you can do until he decides to accept/seek help.
crystalmethod said:
A quick update.
My friend is living off a permanent health insurance policy which keeps him well funded – and which I’m sure isn’t helping things as it means he has no motivation to do anything apart from sit at home and drink.
He will have told the insurance company that he has depression and panic attacks which is true, but he won’t have mentioned their root cause: the booze because (i) he’s in denial anyway and (ii) they’ll stop paying out.
It turns out that the company is now sending specialists round to his house to help him keep his mind occupied (that’s what he told me) in order to aid his likelihood of being able to get back to work.
My question is, does anyone have any experience of how these insurance companies work in situations like this? Maybe I’m being too cynical, but I assume they’ll be looking for signs that include alcoholism so they can declare the policy null and void.
My reason for asking is that if they do flush him out then things will come to a head. I’m going to stay well away from this particular development, but just wondered where these ‘visits’ could lead to.
Thanks everyone.
The depression and panic attacks might actually be the trigger for the alcoholism itself (which themselves have triggers) so in which case the alcoholism isn't the primary illness... Now whether the insurance company take any of this into consideration is entirely up to them (but they do have guidelines). Be under no illusion, their sole concern is reducing their payouts and thefore plan for a less than favourable outcome.My friend is living off a permanent health insurance policy which keeps him well funded – and which I’m sure isn’t helping things as it means he has no motivation to do anything apart from sit at home and drink.
He will have told the insurance company that he has depression and panic attacks which is true, but he won’t have mentioned their root cause: the booze because (i) he’s in denial anyway and (ii) they’ll stop paying out.
It turns out that the company is now sending specialists round to his house to help him keep his mind occupied (that’s what he told me) in order to aid his likelihood of being able to get back to work.
My question is, does anyone have any experience of how these insurance companies work in situations like this? Maybe I’m being too cynical, but I assume they’ll be looking for signs that include alcoholism so they can declare the policy null and void.
My reason for asking is that if they do flush him out then things will come to a head. I’m going to stay well away from this particular development, but just wondered where these ‘visits’ could lead to.
Thanks everyone.
Until he reaches the point where he says this can't go on any longer and is then prepared to do the quite considerable work to resolve the underlying issue(s) that lie at the root of his life, nothing is going to happen in his life.
And it is the hardest thing to do to watch people you care about be so damaged by alcohol. A word or warning, be careful that it does not change you to. It can leave many close by very affected, sometimes cynical and often with a jaundiced view of life. Preserve your own sanity.
DCchillin said:
Only one alcoholic can help another. And if he doesnt want to change he is not going to. Buy a copy of the big book of alcoholics anonymous, all your answers are in there. Read it/give it to him.
Sorry, but i'm going to disagree with you here. It's simply not true that only one alcoholic can help another - it's just a myth. As for AA, well for as many people as they help, they don't. The sitting around in the circle thing is a huge turn off for many and as for constantly living with the belief that you will always be an alcoholic, that's dependance just in another form; you 'escape' the drink only to spend the rest of your life being chased by the fear of it returning.Long gap, but this has now concluded. He continually denied being an alcoholic whenever I tried to talk with him, and his close family always told me they didn't see any signs, but he's now dead of a heart attack on Tuesday - and his brother found the house full of empty vodka bottles. I don't think anyone could have changed the outcome though, so I don't mean this as a rant at his family. What a fking waste though.
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