Red Bull - Engine reliabilty issues?
Discussion
Todays test reports again mention Red Bull carrying out a 'precautionary engine change' during the day. I've read that comment twice in the two weeks of testing at Valencia, but no mention of any other teams needing to do the same thing.
Could this be a sign of impending engine reliabilty issues (possibly installation problems) which spoiled the teams chances last year?
Could this be a sign of impending engine reliabilty issues (possibly installation problems) which spoiled the teams chances last year?
ajprice said:
The Red Bull does seem to be a 'great when it works' kind of car in testing so far. Does the limited number of engines and gearboxes during the race season apply to testing?
Part of those 'what if, what if now shut up' kinda things, but if the RB HADN'T had engine related reliability issues in 09', as indeed showed itself during 09 pre season testing, Vettel would certainly have gotten the championship, (not lamenting anything either, just saying!). Smacks of Newey at Mclaren, designing with too tight a tolerance.But hey I'm just an arm chair enthusiast so feel free someone to tell me to shut up and set me straight.
I can understand pre-cautionary changes, as it gives you time to find the exact weak point of an engine before it goes pop and gets all messy and wastes track time.
If something is going weak, why not inspect it while you have the chance?
Perhaps their '09 performance has changed their strategy towards engine testing?
All speculation of course
If something is going weak, why not inspect it while you have the chance?
Perhaps their '09 performance has changed their strategy towards engine testing?
All speculation of course
As a follower of MotoGP, what has been reported when the rules changed part way through the 2009 season to limit the number of engines per rider, is that the engine development went from performance to designing the engine to run cooler and in turn help increase the life-span of the engine while retaining most of the performance. I suspect that with the Red Bull design it has been compromised, the engine is becoming hotter than what the Renault team are running. As some of you have suggested it maybe a fundermental flaw in the Adrian Newey design maybe an issue implementing the engine beyond its guidelines through aero drag (workload). The engine and car seem to be virtually unstoppable when in wet conditions.
From looking at the pictures off the t'interweb the design of the RB hasn't deviated much from last years car, where the reliability was an issue so possibly cooling?
From looking at the pictures off the t'interweb the design of the RB hasn't deviated much from last years car, where the reliability was an issue so possibly cooling?
plg101 said:
ajprice said:
The Red Bull does seem to be a 'great when it works' kind of car in testing so far. Does the limited number of engines and gearboxes during the race season apply to testing?
No. Testing is unregulated as I understand it. No scrutineering, no test of car legality.http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regula...
I thought I had read somewhere that there was a limit on the number of engines they could use for testing, but must have been somewhere else, or imagined it! lol
plg101 said:
ajprice said:
The Red Bull does seem to be a 'great when it works' kind of car in testing so far. Does the limited number of engines and gearboxes during the race season apply to testing?
No. Testing is unregulated as I understand it. No scrutineering, no test of car legality.My understanding was that testing was unregulated in that there was no scrutineering - eg, the car weight wasn't checked, parts and dimensions were not checked for legality.
You are quite correct on mileage - I overlooked that.
So - anyone from a team on today - how many FIA inspectors appear at testing? What do they check?
You are quite correct on mileage - I overlooked that.
So - anyone from a team on today - how many FIA inspectors appear at testing? What do they check?
It may be that they ran an engine with lots of dyno miles on the car to work out the fuel consumption of an older engine and then swapped it out when it started to show problems. It seems unlikely that they could have problems with a new engine with the cold weather in the UK. They may have just been looking for the failure point on the engine intentionally to avoid the problems they had last year.
Jerez isn't in the UK. 
All the teams will be pushing how close to the edge the cooling can be taken, it's worth chassis performance to do so. They tend to run very different packages depending on conditions. Last year was a major learning issue because the slats they traditionally used to boost the cooling in hot climates were banned. This year they have other aero compromises to deal with, mainly the loss of the front wheel covers which helped direct air cleanly around and under the sidepods.
All the teams will be pushing how close to the edge the cooling can be taken, it's worth chassis performance to do so. They tend to run very different packages depending on conditions. Last year was a major learning issue because the slats they traditionally used to boost the cooling in hot climates were banned. This year they have other aero compromises to deal with, mainly the loss of the front wheel covers which helped direct air cleanly around and under the sidepods.
johnfelstead said:
Jerez isn't in the UK.
All the teams will be pushing how close to the edge the cooling can be taken, it's worth chassis performance to do so. They tend to run very different packages depending on conditions. Last year was a major learning issue because the slats they traditionally used to boost the cooling in hot climates were banned. This year they have other aero compromises to deal with, mainly the loss of the front wheel covers which helped direct air cleanly around and under the sidepods.
I meant to write in the rain and just associated rain with the UK All the teams will be pushing how close to the edge the cooling can be taken, it's worth chassis performance to do so. They tend to run very different packages depending on conditions. Last year was a major learning issue because the slats they traditionally used to boost the cooling in hot climates were banned. This year they have other aero compromises to deal with, mainly the loss of the front wheel covers which helped direct air cleanly around and under the sidepods.
thestig84 said:
MiniMan64 said:
Shouldn't Renault be having the same problems?
It would be down to the installation, like how extreme they have gone on cooling for aerodynamic advantage etc. Renault maybe more conservative and not have nearly as many as failures as redbull, like last year.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff