Discussion
The wife is going to let me spend a max of £35k?
I have been looking at the last of the air cooled cars, ie the 993. I quite fancy a carrera 4 can anyone give me advice as to which models to look at, which to avoid and are their any good buyers guide books out there to help me chose.
I was told a 3.8 carrera 4 made in 1995 - 98 was the last of the line model I should look for is this correct?
I must admit to being a bit of a Porsche virgin. seem to be so many different 993 models.
Can anyone help.
neil.
I have been looking at the last of the air cooled cars, ie the 993. I quite fancy a carrera 4 can anyone give me advice as to which models to look at, which to avoid and are their any good buyers guide books out there to help me chose.
I was told a 3.8 carrera 4 made in 1995 - 98 was the last of the line model I should look for is this correct?
I must admit to being a bit of a Porsche virgin. seem to be so many different 993 models.
Can anyone help.
neil.
LHD Turbo 4.
You can get a RHD one if you can find another 5k or so, or you could get a LHD 993RS for that money.
The standard C2/C4 is a good car, but the ones above are much more special IMO.
Have a look at www.rsjsportscars.co.uk, they have quite a lot of 993s in.
You can get a RHD one if you can find another 5k or so, or you could get a LHD 993RS for that money.
The standard C2/C4 is a good car, but the ones above are much more special IMO.
Have a look at www.rsjsportscars.co.uk, they have quite a lot of 993s in.
domster said:
Have a look at www.rsjsportscars.co.uk, they have quite a lot of 993s in.
I had a look at a RHD 993 T4 at RSJ. 911 & Porsche World had been in and driven the same car and wrote it up quite favourably in the last issue. Looked pretty nice, full history from OPCs then Northways.
He's just dropped the price to £38,250 which seems good for a RHD car. Was sorely tempted myself but other ideas have hatched in my mind at the minute.
I'm sure a little bit of negotiation with both wife and Joel at RSJ could close the gap in budget!
Chris
Thanks for the info.
I have looked around and don't think the new 996 model is me at all. I would love a 993 Turbo 4 but realistically this could be at the outer reach of my price range. I think the 993 carrera 4 could be do-able on my budget. Its interesting to see how few of these are for sale compared to the newer 996 model??
I think I am at least a year away from making a purchase at the moment. I am also very cautious, since it is the first time in my life I have ever contemplated spending more than £20k on a car, let alone a one that is 8 years old!
thanks for the advice, and here's hoping that the Turbo 4 drops another £6k or so over the forthcoming year.
neil.
By the way is a turbo 4 really worth £15k more than a carrera 2 on the same plate??
I have looked around and don't think the new 996 model is me at all. I would love a 993 Turbo 4 but realistically this could be at the outer reach of my price range. I think the 993 carrera 4 could be do-able on my budget. Its interesting to see how few of these are for sale compared to the newer 996 model??
I think I am at least a year away from making a purchase at the moment. I am also very cautious, since it is the first time in my life I have ever contemplated spending more than £20k on a car, let alone a one that is 8 years old!
thanks for the advice, and here's hoping that the Turbo 4 drops another £6k or so over the forthcoming year.
neil.
By the way is a turbo 4 really worth £15k more than a carrera 2 on the same plate??
The Turbo 4 will be a more expensive car to run than a C2/C4 as a general rule. Don't get the cheapest T4 if they do drop 6k! You could spend 6k in one year putting a bad one right.
They are worth 15k more because they offer much higher performance - 0-60 in 3.7, 0-100 in 9.1, top speed 190 etc. and because they are a rarer car with more enthusiasts chasing them. Remember they cost 90k new when the standard C2 was only about 52k. Now you can see why they are 50% more than the Carrera.
Rgds
Domster
They are worth 15k more because they offer much higher performance - 0-60 in 3.7, 0-100 in 9.1, top speed 190 etc. and because they are a rarer car with more enthusiasts chasing them. Remember they cost 90k new when the standard C2 was only about 52k. Now you can see why they are 50% more than the Carrera.
Rgds
Domster
I know this is not really answering your question.
But as you say all 993s are going to be seven years plus and all models except turbo and rs are within budget.
Of course those models are the most desirable (to me as well) but...if a consensus could be formed from the opinions I've seen posted I think it would be - condition is everything. Much more important than c2/c4 vario/non vario. Most would recommend coupe over cab and targa and manual over tip. I think if you get into 'I want a midnight blue C4s and nothing else will do' you'll be waiting a long time.
Good ones I suspect are in the hands of people who will keep them longer. Less good ones will change hands more frequently. Hopefully if you take your time and drive a few you'll find what you want
Like you I was looking with permission from better half (then pregnant). I wondered how long my window of opportunity(permission)would last and could have probably done better if I had spent more time and had more experience and advice(not PHing then).
What do others think of asking a specialist to keep a look out for a 'perfect' car? Good strategy or license to be ripped off?
Cue HenryF I think.
But as you say all 993s are going to be seven years plus and all models except turbo and rs are within budget.
Of course those models are the most desirable (to me as well) but...if a consensus could be formed from the opinions I've seen posted I think it would be - condition is everything. Much more important than c2/c4 vario/non vario. Most would recommend coupe over cab and targa and manual over tip. I think if you get into 'I want a midnight blue C4s and nothing else will do' you'll be waiting a long time.
Good ones I suspect are in the hands of people who will keep them longer. Less good ones will change hands more frequently. Hopefully if you take your time and drive a few you'll find what you want
Like you I was looking with permission from better half (then pregnant). I wondered how long my window of opportunity(permission)would last and could have probably done better if I had spent more time and had more experience and advice(not PHing then).
What do others think of asking a specialist to keep a look out for a 'perfect' car? Good strategy or license to be ripped off?
Cue HenryF I think.
If I had a boxter, I wouldn't know if I was coming or going? My S4 avant already has that sort of performance and my dogs can come along for the ride.
For me I think the decision is made. It must be a C4S or Turbo 4 and I will bide my time.
I sat in one the other day and hadn't felt so offset in driving position since my old fiat 500. They are quirky things these porsche's
Neil.
For me I think the decision is made. It must be a C4S or Turbo 4 and I will bide my time.
I sat in one the other day and hadn't felt so offset in driving position since my old fiat 500. They are quirky things these porsche's
Neil.
heightswitch said:
If I had a boxter, I wouldn't know if I was coming or going? My S4 avant already has that sort of performance and my dogs can come along for the ride.
Yeeeeeesss, but guess which goes round corners quicker? Do not underestimate the power of Boxster (and not just cos you're not lugging a bootful of hounds around!)
I seem to remember a 3.2S humbling a 550M on track not so long back... My 2.5 also was not exactly blistering 0-60, but was one of the fastest point-to-point cars I've ever driven... I drove that car Fort William to Mallaig faster than I would ever have thought possible in an effort to catch the last ferry to Skye in the fading light of an autumn evening, and ended up going so fast I even scared my g/f (an ex-rally driver)...
heightswitch said:
I sat in one the other day and hadn't felt so offset in driving position since my old fiat 500. They are quirky things these porsche's
Try a LHD, driving position is near perfect. Only with the 996/Boxster generation RHD did they sort out the driving position.
Fox
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964C2 (LHD and proud)
P.S. Nope, arrived in port to see ferry just moving out from quay, and didn't fancy going for a Starsky and Hutch jobbie
I'm a front engine water cooled guy, with three of em right now so I'm biased. However, if I were looking at newer models, I'd go for a Boxster. They put the motor where it belongs on that car, and got it from hanging out over the rear end. As a result, it is a much better weight bias situation
With the "911" series, if you happen to lift the gas pedal coming into a decreasing radius turn, guess what happens???
It's often not a pretty sight.
Dogsharks
With the "911" series, if you happen to lift the gas pedal coming into a decreasing radius turn, guess what happens???
It's often not a pretty sight.
Dogsharks
Lovely car though the Boxster is, they just are'nt as special as a good 911.
The 993 is one of the best - you'll know as well as I the appeal of that air cooled engine.
I can understand your desire for a C4S or a 993 Turbo - they are lovely cars.
Do not however underestimate a plain old vanilla C2 993. Your budget would get you one of the very best anywhere.
Sometimes less is more. A perfect C2 ( which £35k should buy) would be so rewarding. And it can grow with you - Ninemeister have all sorts of ways to increase the grunt factor.
The alternative is to add another 5-10k to the budget and get a good Turbo. Choices , choices...
Good luck
The 993 is one of the best - you'll know as well as I the appeal of that air cooled engine.
I can understand your desire for a C4S or a 993 Turbo - they are lovely cars.
Do not however underestimate a plain old vanilla C2 993. Your budget would get you one of the very best anywhere.
Sometimes less is more. A perfect C2 ( which £35k should buy) would be so rewarding. And it can grow with you - Ninemeister have all sorts of ways to increase the grunt factor.
The alternative is to add another 5-10k to the budget and get a good Turbo. Choices , choices...
Good luck
heightswitch said:
I was told a 3.8 carrera 4 made in 1995 - 98 was the last of the line model I should look for is this correct?
3.8 Carreras are rare old beasts & very few of 'em about- very much a guess here but id say far more RS's are about.
As far as im aware for the UK it was an option rather than a regular production model, ive only seen it on a C4S, so not sure if it was available on regular 993's.
Odd to price, I've seen 'em at near turbo or RS money.....
dogsharks said:
With the "911" series, if you happen to lift the gas pedal coming into a decreasing radius turn, guess what happens???
It's often not a pretty sight.
Oh come on! Coming from a 'perfectly balanced' 968CS I didn't find the 964C2 to be a pig at all, sure it'll change ends slightly easier, but it doesn't take long to adjust to. Lift-off oversteer whilst under heavy braking and turning in at 90 mph+ _is_ controllable with a modicum of practise (a day at North Weald).
Why are we perpetuating this "oooooo! scary scary!" 911 myth? Any car will spin out if you abuse it enough, different cars require different driving skills. Even the much maligned corvair was apparently a reasonable handling car, just a different balance to the normal American front-engined RWD.
Fox
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"911 myth basher"
The old 911 tail happy chestnut - thats not been along in a while !
The answer depends on your driving style.
If you are kind of driver who turns in on the brakes, often overcooks it mid corner and instinctively backs off, then the 911 will bite you. But then, so would every powerful rear drive sportscar in these circumstances.
The old "slow in" fast out" adage still applies. Get your braking done before you turn, sight the apex, squeeze the power through the corner and nail it as you come out ! Most satsifying !
The 993 and 964 are more tolerant of not driving in this way than the old 3.2 is, I would say. But the rules are the same.
The answer depends on your driving style.
If you are kind of driver who turns in on the brakes, often overcooks it mid corner and instinctively backs off, then the 911 will bite you. But then, so would every powerful rear drive sportscar in these circumstances.
The old "slow in" fast out" adage still applies. Get your braking done before you turn, sight the apex, squeeze the power through the corner and nail it as you come out ! Most satsifying !
The 993 and 964 are more tolerant of not driving in this way than the old 3.2 is, I would say. But the rules are the same.
A 964RS in the dry can handle sublimely, like a beautifully balanced mid-engined car. Like Neon, you will be wondering what the fuss is all about.
A 964RS in the wet is on a knife edge. Get it wrong and it will punish you. This is the 911 myth made real.
A 964C2 is not the same as a 964RS - the RS is appreciably harder set up and doesn't give you the warning of a C2. And North Weald is not the same as real roads with funny cambers etc which you may be driving for the first time.
IMO, the '911 characteristics' get less and less with each evolution. I found a 3.2 like driving a hammer with the head at the back, a 964C2 much better, a 964RS fantastic in the dry but old school in the wet, a 993 fantastic all round and a 996 similar (apart from the GT3 which is more old school again).
Erm, so basically don't believe ALL you read, but ignore some of it at your peril. You can't change physics and lifting off mid bend, or rough steering inputs off camber, or braking around a bend etc. will all be quite lively compared to your cavalier.
As soon as you say 'I can't see what all the fuss is about' the layer of false security will be in place and the next wet road could punish a lazy driver.
A 964RS in the wet is on a knife edge. Get it wrong and it will punish you. This is the 911 myth made real.
A 964C2 is not the same as a 964RS - the RS is appreciably harder set up and doesn't give you the warning of a C2. And North Weald is not the same as real roads with funny cambers etc which you may be driving for the first time.
IMO, the '911 characteristics' get less and less with each evolution. I found a 3.2 like driving a hammer with the head at the back, a 964C2 much better, a 964RS fantastic in the dry but old school in the wet, a 993 fantastic all round and a 996 similar (apart from the GT3 which is more old school again).
Erm, so basically don't believe ALL you read, but ignore some of it at your peril. You can't change physics and lifting off mid bend, or rough steering inputs off camber, or braking around a bend etc. will all be quite lively compared to your cavalier.
As soon as you say 'I can't see what all the fuss is about' the layer of false security will be in place and the next wet road could punish a lazy driver.
domster said:
A 964C2 is not the same as a 964RS - the RS is appreciably harder set up and doesn't give you the warning of a C2. And North Weald is not the same as real roads with funny cambers etc which you may be driving for the first time.
What!? You saying my car's a softie? Come on then iff you think you're 'ard enuff!
Well Dom, I'll caveat by adding: "though I've never driven a 964RS..."
Nothing I've ever driven, front, mid or rear engined, front, rear or all wheel drive has been so eager to swap ends in the wet than my Chim450 - that was just plain nutty, even the instructor at MIRA couldn't master it!
If we meet on a wet trackday you'll have to give me a run around and show me just what it's like!
Fox
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964C2 "Just a big 'ole softie"
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