Adding an Ensuite bathrom to a large bedroom
Discussion
Sorry for the long post, but i have a dilema. Always been a bit of a DIYer and can do most stuff, but leave all bar basic plumbing and electrics to the pros. Bear with me, on the initial part of scene setting , all will become clear!
We have a large main bedroom in a Chalet style 2 story house, where the steep angle roof comes down to the start of 1st floor, and the second floor is wholly within the roof structure. There is a full length dormer on one side of the house, but only one in the middle on the other side, so the bedroom at one end of the house has a full width flat roof dormer one side and a sloping roof down to about 1.5m verticels that had (up to about 2 weeks ago, a wardrobe built into it. Room is about 6m x4m, 4m being along the dormer.
So we decided we wanted to change it all around, removed the wardrobe and exposed the very poorly constructed stud wall behind it. A quick drill through revealed no insulation behind it at all, sloping rafters and felt visible, and nothing on the verticle part either. The "void" behind the wall was only about a metre to the outside wall of the house, the roof is very steep indeed, I would say about 50-60 degrees at the ridge. Because the plastering in the house is poor generall (40 years old) and covered in three layers of old lady wallpaper, I dceided to remove the plasterboard and re tack it all. Whilst getting access to the void, I invested in some 50mm celotex, and fitted it in the rafters, leaving a 50mil airgap to the sarking/felt for ventilation, also some celotex to the end walls and studwork, then boarded the void floor out, (it was partly boarded already, to make a potential storage cubby tunnel, (not cut the hole for the door in it yet!
So having sorted out this side of the room, where bed will go, I want to install a bathroom in the other end, (dormer end) put a wardrobe in accross the room, backign onto the full with (4m) bathroom. Bathroom will be a little narrow, (1200mm) but 4m long, and will have entry through the middle of the wardrobe, via fake wardrobe doors. There is a window in the "bathroom", two double sockets which for some reason are spurs from the ring main, and no lighting.
So here is the problem. Today I call the electricians who are not cheap, a proper local firm I have used for years, to come and quote for the electrical work. I want one light on the end wall, the spur from one side extening to the wall for an oversink cabinet, an extractor combined with lamp for in the shower end of the bath, whihc is a whirlpool bath, so need wiring for the pump for that.
All seems ok, they have a mooch about, we work out isolation points for the fan, the shower and whirlpool can be int he next room over, light seems no problem, in fact, it all seems pretty OK. As it is part P, I need to have it done by a qualified person, they are, and do certificates and also they inform the Local planning Authorities, to comply with regs etc.....but they he drops a potential bombshell. "Of course we wont do that as your planning offier will inspect on site.....!" "Er what plannig officer!?" So he goes on to say as it is a "change of use" ie from bedroom to bathroom, I will need a building note, it is not permitted development. Now, I have had soem help from a local builder who helpeed me source the celotex and he never mentioned this. It never even occured to me.
So I think, OK no problem, I get a building note, but they he says they wont let you use that, pointing to some 50Mil celotex offcut in the room! He reckons The building control will require me to insulate all the rafters out by 100mm, and probably stripp the wall in the dormer too and do the same in the bathroom. Which will be huge work, but also lost space and make it difficult to fit in what we want.
So what do I do? I have added some insulation to a previously inaccessible and uninsutated area. all done sensibly to avoid condensation, using proper stuff. I am thinking that the electricians are poking their nose in a bit, and maybe should just do their electrics and sign it off, let the building control office know our bathrom work is all OK, and give me the certificate. I cannot believe ensutie installation into an existing inhabited room, built 40 years ago, requires re engineering to what may be unacheivable modern standards. I called my builder chap up, who said, "tell them its nowt to do with them!", but then suggested finishing the rest of the room off, plaster, paint etc, then installing the bathroom seperately, as he reckons on a building note, the building control officer will only be concerned about wiring and plumbing being OK,(whihc it will be as I use pros) as all "walls" are staying put.
I dont mind getting them involved officially at all, infact that would be my preference, but I desperately dont want to have to undo the rather neat work done so far on the other side of the room.
Anyone any ideas? Another electrician said he would be ok to treat it as a bathroom refurb and just inform them as he normally does that the work is to code. But I am not trying to hide anything, other than I live in a 40 yr old house with flip minimal insualtion, that I am trying to improve sensibly and cost effectively!
We have a large main bedroom in a Chalet style 2 story house, where the steep angle roof comes down to the start of 1st floor, and the second floor is wholly within the roof structure. There is a full length dormer on one side of the house, but only one in the middle on the other side, so the bedroom at one end of the house has a full width flat roof dormer one side and a sloping roof down to about 1.5m verticels that had (up to about 2 weeks ago, a wardrobe built into it. Room is about 6m x4m, 4m being along the dormer.
So we decided we wanted to change it all around, removed the wardrobe and exposed the very poorly constructed stud wall behind it. A quick drill through revealed no insulation behind it at all, sloping rafters and felt visible, and nothing on the verticle part either. The "void" behind the wall was only about a metre to the outside wall of the house, the roof is very steep indeed, I would say about 50-60 degrees at the ridge. Because the plastering in the house is poor generall (40 years old) and covered in three layers of old lady wallpaper, I dceided to remove the plasterboard and re tack it all. Whilst getting access to the void, I invested in some 50mm celotex, and fitted it in the rafters, leaving a 50mil airgap to the sarking/felt for ventilation, also some celotex to the end walls and studwork, then boarded the void floor out, (it was partly boarded already, to make a potential storage cubby tunnel, (not cut the hole for the door in it yet!
So having sorted out this side of the room, where bed will go, I want to install a bathroom in the other end, (dormer end) put a wardrobe in accross the room, backign onto the full with (4m) bathroom. Bathroom will be a little narrow, (1200mm) but 4m long, and will have entry through the middle of the wardrobe, via fake wardrobe doors. There is a window in the "bathroom", two double sockets which for some reason are spurs from the ring main, and no lighting.
So here is the problem. Today I call the electricians who are not cheap, a proper local firm I have used for years, to come and quote for the electrical work. I want one light on the end wall, the spur from one side extening to the wall for an oversink cabinet, an extractor combined with lamp for in the shower end of the bath, whihc is a whirlpool bath, so need wiring for the pump for that.
All seems ok, they have a mooch about, we work out isolation points for the fan, the shower and whirlpool can be int he next room over, light seems no problem, in fact, it all seems pretty OK. As it is part P, I need to have it done by a qualified person, they are, and do certificates and also they inform the Local planning Authorities, to comply with regs etc.....but they he drops a potential bombshell. "Of course we wont do that as your planning offier will inspect on site.....!" "Er what plannig officer!?" So he goes on to say as it is a "change of use" ie from bedroom to bathroom, I will need a building note, it is not permitted development. Now, I have had soem help from a local builder who helpeed me source the celotex and he never mentioned this. It never even occured to me.
So I think, OK no problem, I get a building note, but they he says they wont let you use that, pointing to some 50Mil celotex offcut in the room! He reckons The building control will require me to insulate all the rafters out by 100mm, and probably stripp the wall in the dormer too and do the same in the bathroom. Which will be huge work, but also lost space and make it difficult to fit in what we want.
So what do I do? I have added some insulation to a previously inaccessible and uninsutated area. all done sensibly to avoid condensation, using proper stuff. I am thinking that the electricians are poking their nose in a bit, and maybe should just do their electrics and sign it off, let the building control office know our bathrom work is all OK, and give me the certificate. I cannot believe ensutie installation into an existing inhabited room, built 40 years ago, requires re engineering to what may be unacheivable modern standards. I called my builder chap up, who said, "tell them its nowt to do with them!", but then suggested finishing the rest of the room off, plaster, paint etc, then installing the bathroom seperately, as he reckons on a building note, the building control officer will only be concerned about wiring and plumbing being OK,(whihc it will be as I use pros) as all "walls" are staying put.
I dont mind getting them involved officially at all, infact that would be my preference, but I desperately dont want to have to undo the rather neat work done so far on the other side of the room.
Anyone any ideas? Another electrician said he would be ok to treat it as a bathroom refurb and just inform them as he normally does that the work is to code. But I am not trying to hide anything, other than I live in a 40 yr old house with flip minimal insualtion, that I am trying to improve sensibly and cost effectively!
poo at Paul's said:
Sorry for the long post, but i have a dilema. Always been a bit of a DIYer and can do most stuff, but leave all bar basic plumbing and electrics to the pros. Bear with me, on the initial part of scene setting , all will become clear!
We have a large main bedroom in a Chalet style 2 story house, where the steep angle roof comes down to the start of 1st floor, and the second floor is wholly within the roof structure. There is a full length dormer on one side of the house, but only one in the middle on the other side, so the bedroom at one end of the house has a full width flat roof dormer one side and a sloping roof down to about 1.5m verticels that had (up to about 2 weeks ago, a wardrobe built into it. Room is about 6m x4m, 4m being along the dormer.
So we decided we wanted to change it all around, removed the wardrobe and exposed the very poorly constructed stud wall behind it. A quick drill through revealed no insulation behind it at all, sloping rafters and felt visible, and nothing on the verticle part either. The "void" behind the wall was only about a metre to the outside wall of the house, the roof is very steep indeed, I would say about 50-60 degrees at the ridge.
Because the plastering in the house is poor generall (40 years old) and covered in three layers of old lady wallpaper, I dceided to remove the plasterboard and re tack it all. Whilst getting access to the void, I invested in some 50mm celotex, and fitted it in the rafters, leaving a 50mil airgap to the sarking/felt for ventilation, also some celotex to the end walls and studwork, then boarded the void floor out, (it was partly boarded already, to make a potential storage cubby tunnel, (not cut the hole for the door in it yet!
So having sorted out this side of the room, where bed will go, I want to install a bathroom in the other end, (dormer end) put a wardrobe in accross the room, backign onto the full with (4m) bathroom. Bathroom will be a little narrow, (1200mm) but 4m long, and will have entry through the middle of the wardrobe, via fake wardrobe doors. There is a window in the "bathroom", two double sockets which for some reason are spurs from the ring main, and no lighting.
So here is the problem. Today I call the electricians who are not cheap, a proper local firm I have used for years, to come and quote for the electrical work. I want one light on the end wall, the spur from one side extening to the wall for an oversink cabinet, an extractor combined with lamp for in the shower end of the bath, which is a whirlpool bath, so need wiring for the pump for that.
All seems ok, they have a mooch about, we work out isolation points for the fan, the shower and whirlpool can be int he next room over, light seems no problem, in fact, it all seems pretty OK. As it is part P, I need to have it done by a qualified person, they are, and do certificates and also they inform the Local planning Authorities, to comply with regs etc.....but they he drops a potential bombshell. "Of course we wont do that as your planning offier will inspect on site.....!" "Er what plannig officer!?" So he goes on to say as it is a "change of use" ie from bedroom to bathroom, I will need a building note, it is not permitted development. Now, I have had some help from a local builder who helpeed me source the celotex and he never mentioned this. It never even occured to me.
So I think, OK no problem, I get a building note, but they he says they wont let you use that, pointing to some 50Mil celotex offcut in the room! He reckons The building control will require me to insulate all the rafters out by 100mm, and probably stripp the wall in the dormer too and do the same in the bathroom. Which will be huge work, but also lost space and make it difficult to fit in what we want.
So what do I do? I have added some insulation to a previously inaccessible and uninsutated area. all done sensibly to avoid condensation, using proper stuff. I am thinking that the electricians are poking their nose in a bit, and maybe should just do their electrics and sign it off, let the building control office know our bathrom work is all OK, and give me the certificate. I cannot believe ensutie installation into an existing inhabited room, built 40 years ago, requires re engineering to what may be unacheivable modern standards.
I called my builder chap up, who said, "tell them its nowt to do with them!", but then suggested finishing the rest of the room off, plaster, paint etc, then installing the bathroom seperately, as he reckons on a building note, the building control officer will only be concerned about wiring and plumbing being OK,(whihc it will be as I use pros) as all "walls" are staying put.
I dont mind getting them involved officially at all, infact that would be my preference, but I desperately dont want to have to undo the rather neat work done so far on the other side of the room.
Anyone any ideas? Another electrician said he would be ok to treat it as a bathroom refurb and just inform them as he normally does that the work is to code. But I am not trying to hide anything, other than I live in a 40 yr old house with flip minimal insualtion, that I am trying to improve sensibly and cost effectively!
We have a large main bedroom in a Chalet style 2 story house, where the steep angle roof comes down to the start of 1st floor, and the second floor is wholly within the roof structure. There is a full length dormer on one side of the house, but only one in the middle on the other side, so the bedroom at one end of the house has a full width flat roof dormer one side and a sloping roof down to about 1.5m verticels that had (up to about 2 weeks ago, a wardrobe built into it. Room is about 6m x4m, 4m being along the dormer.
So we decided we wanted to change it all around, removed the wardrobe and exposed the very poorly constructed stud wall behind it. A quick drill through revealed no insulation behind it at all, sloping rafters and felt visible, and nothing on the verticle part either. The "void" behind the wall was only about a metre to the outside wall of the house, the roof is very steep indeed, I would say about 50-60 degrees at the ridge.
Because the plastering in the house is poor generall (40 years old) and covered in three layers of old lady wallpaper, I dceided to remove the plasterboard and re tack it all. Whilst getting access to the void, I invested in some 50mm celotex, and fitted it in the rafters, leaving a 50mil airgap to the sarking/felt for ventilation, also some celotex to the end walls and studwork, then boarded the void floor out, (it was partly boarded already, to make a potential storage cubby tunnel, (not cut the hole for the door in it yet!
So having sorted out this side of the room, where bed will go, I want to install a bathroom in the other end, (dormer end) put a wardrobe in accross the room, backign onto the full with (4m) bathroom. Bathroom will be a little narrow, (1200mm) but 4m long, and will have entry through the middle of the wardrobe, via fake wardrobe doors. There is a window in the "bathroom", two double sockets which for some reason are spurs from the ring main, and no lighting.
So here is the problem. Today I call the electricians who are not cheap, a proper local firm I have used for years, to come and quote for the electrical work. I want one light on the end wall, the spur from one side extening to the wall for an oversink cabinet, an extractor combined with lamp for in the shower end of the bath, which is a whirlpool bath, so need wiring for the pump for that.
All seems ok, they have a mooch about, we work out isolation points for the fan, the shower and whirlpool can be int he next room over, light seems no problem, in fact, it all seems pretty OK. As it is part P, I need to have it done by a qualified person, they are, and do certificates and also they inform the Local planning Authorities, to comply with regs etc.....but they he drops a potential bombshell. "Of course we wont do that as your planning offier will inspect on site.....!" "Er what plannig officer!?" So he goes on to say as it is a "change of use" ie from bedroom to bathroom, I will need a building note, it is not permitted development. Now, I have had some help from a local builder who helpeed me source the celotex and he never mentioned this. It never even occured to me.
So I think, OK no problem, I get a building note, but they he says they wont let you use that, pointing to some 50Mil celotex offcut in the room! He reckons The building control will require me to insulate all the rafters out by 100mm, and probably stripp the wall in the dormer too and do the same in the bathroom. Which will be huge work, but also lost space and make it difficult to fit in what we want.
So what do I do? I have added some insulation to a previously inaccessible and uninsutated area. all done sensibly to avoid condensation, using proper stuff. I am thinking that the electricians are poking their nose in a bit, and maybe should just do their electrics and sign it off, let the building control office know our bathrom work is all OK, and give me the certificate. I cannot believe ensutie installation into an existing inhabited room, built 40 years ago, requires re engineering to what may be unacheivable modern standards.
I called my builder chap up, who said, "tell them its nowt to do with them!", but then suggested finishing the rest of the room off, plaster, paint etc, then installing the bathroom seperately, as he reckons on a building note, the building control officer will only be concerned about wiring and plumbing being OK,(whihc it will be as I use pros) as all "walls" are staying put.
I dont mind getting them involved officially at all, infact that would be my preference, but I desperately dont want to have to undo the rather neat work done so far on the other side of the room.
Anyone any ideas? Another electrician said he would be ok to treat it as a bathroom refurb and just inform them as he normally does that the work is to code. But I am not trying to hide anything, other than I live in a 40 yr old house with flip minimal insualtion, that I am trying to improve sensibly and cost effectively!
Sounds like a load of crap to me. www.planningportal.gov.uk would clear it up though
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff