Who is F1's regenmeister? (vid)

[mattikake]

Been calculating this the past couple of months: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ljrtsQ8R3E as a percentage.

Guess first, watch afterwards!

Did you get it right?

Now, I would REALLY love someone to tell me exactly how many wet races Jim Clark competed in and his results (Derek?), as I think he is the only man who could beat the post-1980 regenmeister...

[Jungles]

Do you know how the results might have turned out if you counted point scores or podiums as well? It would be interesting to see, I think.

[kiteless]

DC.

Off to watch clip to confirm 100% fail........

Yup. 100% fail.

But rain=Scotland=DC=kitelesslogic.

Edited by kiteless on Thursday 25th February 23:30

[mattikake]

Jungles said:

Do you know how the results might have turned out if you counted point scores or podiums as well? It would be interesting to see, I think.

In my spreadsheet Senna is still top with 6.80 points per wet race. Schumi 2nd with 6.07 - adjusted to 10-8-6 points scoring system. Of course Schumi had unparalleled reliability as well and coupled with untimely deaths is why percentage is the only fair way to go. and if Hmailton had retired himself in Europe '08 or not aquaplaned off, his score would've been significantly better than 5.10.

Hamilton pretty much has to win all his career wet races to beat Senna as well. He could do that but who knows?

Edited by mattikake on Thursday 25th February 23:39

[anonymous-user]

you shouldnt really do it on points alone as that is just an indication of where people finished the race. of more interest would be places gained throughout the race or time difference between placings. this would show you who, say from the back of the grid, kept it on the island and overtook or benefitted form others falling off.

to get points in the eighties/nineties was largely dependant upon where you started suc hwas the difference between talent at the top and talent at the bottom but thats not to say that the talent at the back wasnt bloody good. when the likes of caffi and alboreto were in the footwork, they were still damn good drivers but they wouldnt have scored points due tot he senna, piquet, mansell, prost monopoly at the top. they probably did very well though and were consistent in wet races, but for reliability and the fact that in the middle of the grid the risk of accidents increases, they could have actually seen a greater position gain.

as ever, interesting stuff but you cant really make anything from it other than that a sensible guess from the outset may suffice.

[zac510]

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

[Dunit]

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.
Best wet race by a F1 driver ,Pedro at Brands in Gulf Porsche 917 ,Ask any one who was there !

[mattikake]

zac510 said:

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

Dunit said:

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.

That's right. And is where Regenmeister (this is why it's in German) was first ever used and applied to Jackie Stewart.

[DJC]

mattikake said:

zac510 said:

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

Dunit said:

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.

That's right. And is where Regenmeister (this is why it's in German) was first ever used and applied to Jackie Stewart.

Nice selective quoting, the most important bit of the post you didnt quote.

Pedro. Brands. 917. End of.

[Eric Mc]

And would any statistics take into account non-Championship scoring F1 events? Prior to the 1970s, in every season, between 1/3 to 1/2 of F1 races didn't count for the World Championship. As a result, drivers of this earlier era suffer a bit when it comes to F1 race stats - as the stats invariably only show WDC races.

Also, in the most recent era, we don't really have "wet" races anymore because if the rain gets at all serious the race has either been red flagged or, more lakely, become a procession behind a safety car.

Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 26th February 12:39

[Eric Mc]

DJC said:

mattikake said:

zac510 said:

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

Dunit said:

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.

That's right. And is where Regenmeister (this is why it's in German) was first ever used and applied to Jackie Stewart.

Nice selective quoting, the most important bit of the post you didnt quote.

Pedro. Brands. 917. End of.

The original "Regenmeister" was NOT Jackie Stewart. It was, in fact, Rudolph Carriciola, who was (despite his surname), German - and who drove for Mercedes in the 1930s.

[mattikake]

Eric Mc said:

DJC said:

mattikake said:

zac510 said:

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

Dunit said:

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.

That's right. And is where Regenmeister (this is why it's in German) was first ever used and applied to Jackie Stewart.

Nice selective quoting, the most important bit of the post you didnt quote.

Pedro. Brands. 917. End of.

The original "Regenmeister" was NOT Jackie Stewart. It was, in fact, Rudolph Carriciola, who was (despite his surname), German - and who drove for Mercedes in the 1930s.

Really? News to me. As I had read, the first time an F1 crowd ever chanted regenmeister was for JYS as above. Was Carriciola called 'rengemeister' by either/or fans, press, journalists, commentators, pundits etc.?

You also might want to tell Mark Hughes that too!

Also the only non-WDC race that I am aware of affecting these drivers was the 1978 Silverstone race that Keke Rosberg won. The rest of course didn't compete. But my personal knowledge of wet races in 1978 (and 1979) is flakey (not concrete), so rather than chance it, I ruled it out and started at 1980!

[DJC]

mattikake said:

Eric Mc said:

DJC said:

mattikake said:

zac510 said:

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

Dunit said:

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.

That's right. And is where Regenmeister (this is why it's in German) was first ever used and applied to Jackie Stewart.

Nice selective quoting, the most important bit of the post you didnt quote.

Pedro. Brands. 917. End of.

The original "Regenmeister" was NOT Jackie Stewart. It was, in fact, Rudolph Carriciola, who was (despite his surname), German - and who drove for Mercedes in the 1930s.

Really? News to me. As I had read, the first time an F1 crowd ever chanted regenmeister was for JYS as above. Was Carriciola called 'rengemeister' by either/or fans, press, journalists, commentators, pundits etc.?

You also might want to tell Mark Hughes that too!

Also the only non-WDC race that I am aware of affecting these drivers was the 1978 Silverstone race that Keke Rosberg won. The rest of course didn't compete. But my personal knowledge of wet races in 1978 (and 1979) is flakey (not concrete), so rather than chance it, I ruled it out and started at 1980!

Your personal knowledge of F1 history is pretty flakey fullstop.

[Mazda Baiter]

Eric Mc said:

DJC said:

mattikake said:

zac510 said:

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

Dunit said:

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.

That's right. And is where Regenmeister (this is why it's in German) was first ever used and applied to Jackie Stewart.

Nice selective quoting, the most important bit of the post you didnt quote.



Pedro. Brands. 917. End of.

The original "Regenmeister" was NOT Jackie Stewart. It was, in fact, Rudolph Carriciola, who was (despite his surname), German - and who drove for Mercedes in the 1930s.

Even in Stewarts career in F1, Ickx was regarded as the man to beat in the wet.

[freedman]

Mazda Baiter said:

Eric Mc said:

DJC said:

mattikake said:

zac510 said:

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

Dunit said:

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.

That's right. And is where Regenmeister (this is why it's in German) was first ever used and applied to Jackie Stewart.

Nice selective quoting, the most important bit of the post you didnt quote.



Pedro. Brands. 917. End of.

The original "Regenmeister" was NOT Jackie Stewart. It was, in fact, Rudolph Carriciola, who was (despite his surname), German - and who drove for Mercedes in the 1930s.

Even in Stewarts career in F1, Ickx was regarded as the man to beat in the wet.

Indeed he was mighty in the wet right until the end of his career in sportscars

[Mazda Baiter]

DJC said:

mattikake said:

Eric Mc said:

DJC said:

mattikake said:

zac510 said:

what the hell is regenmeister. spreche si english?

Dunit said:

I think the little scotsman win at the Ring was the most dominent .About 4 mins from memory.

That's right. And is where Regenmeister (this is why it's in German) was first ever used and applied to Jackie Stewart.

Nice selective quoting, the most important bit of the post you didnt quote.



Pedro. Brands. 917. End of.

The original "Regenmeister" was NOT Jackie Stewart. It was, in fact, Rudolph Carriciola, who was (despite his surname), German - and who drove for Mercedes in the 1930s.

Really? News to me. As I had read, the first time an F1 crowd ever chanted regenmeister was for JYS as above. Was Carriciola called 'rengemeister' by either/or fans, press, journalists, commentators, pundits etc.?



You also might want to tell Mark Hughes that too!



Also the only non-WDC race that I am aware of affecting these drivers was the 1978 Silverstone race that Keke Rosberg won. The rest of course didn't compete. But my personal knowledge of wet races in 1978 (and 1979) is flakey (not concrete), so rather than chance it, I ruled it out and started at 1980!

Your personal knowledge of F1 history is pretty flakey fullstop.

Before the Spa race where he died, Dick Seaman was seen as the only driver on a par with "Caratch". Neubauer said he was the next "Regenmeister". Indeed, he was leading the Belgian race by quite some margin when he had his accident.

It is an old term. I will do a quick count of the Clark races later.

[Alfie Noakes]

Nice one thanks. It was my guess, but very nice to have it confirmed.

[Mazda Baiter]

1961 - Aintree - Ret
1961 - Nurburg - 4th
1962 - Nurburg - 4th
1963 - Spa - 1st
1965 - Watkins - Ret
1966 - Spa - Ret
1966 - Brands - 4th
1966 - Nurburg - Ret
1967 - Mosport - Ret


This is what the wonderful Wikipedia had to offer in the way of results for Clark in wet races. It has a big gap from the end of 1963 to midway through 1965 with no weather info. Some of the results I have filled in from my own knowledge, other results I just don't know. Someone else may know them, or have a complete set of Motorsport magazines for that era ( PABLO)

TBH Clarks car let him down more often than not. For example, the last on the list; Clark was on Pole but had persistent problems with the electrics on his engine. This was because it was the first wet race of 1967 and the team hadn't thought about waterproofing the electrics before then. In the coventry Climax era, his engines were normally to blame, although gear selection does come up rather alot too, normally whilst he was about 20 seconds in the lead and cruising.

[mattikake]

Mazda Baiter said:

1961 - Aintree - Ret
1961 - Nurburg - 4th
1962 - Nurburg - 4th
1963 - Spa - 1st
1965 - Watkins - Ret
1966 - Spa - Ret
1966 - Brands - 4th
1966 - Nurburg - Ret
1967 - Mosport - Ret

Man what a pants set of results (given that it's Clark!). Von Tripps, Hill and Brabham did ok, but none close to rainmaster-ish as Hamilton, Schumi or Senna... or seemingly on a quick count even Kimi, Damon, Mansell or Rosberg for that matter.

[kiteless]

DJC said:

Pedro. Brands. 917. End of.

See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3vWhhxTxiY