2nd interview - discussing pay
Discussion
evening,
i have a 2nd interview on monday. i have been informed [via agency] that 4 people have been called back and 2 positions are available.
at the first interview they asked me what my salary expectations were. this threw me as i was going to ask them the reverse as i'd only been informed of the vacancy [again via agency] 2 days prior. i just told them my previous salary and that in all honesty i'd expect the maximum they were willing to offer.
chatting to another agency yesterday, i was told the company in question have a reputation for paying industry minimums.
how should i approach a salary discussion? at the interview or just discuss general terms/ranges then wait until an offer is on the table to haggle?
its not my dream job, would be a handy 'filler' until employment picks up again in the industry i'm aiming at. at the same time it is going to be a fair commute [500mile p/w] so i'd like my take home to be as high as poss.
i have a 2nd interview on monday. i have been informed [via agency] that 4 people have been called back and 2 positions are available.
at the first interview they asked me what my salary expectations were. this threw me as i was going to ask them the reverse as i'd only been informed of the vacancy [again via agency] 2 days prior. i just told them my previous salary and that in all honesty i'd expect the maximum they were willing to offer.
chatting to another agency yesterday, i was told the company in question have a reputation for paying industry minimums.
how should i approach a salary discussion? at the interview or just discuss general terms/ranges then wait until an offer is on the table to haggle?
its not my dream job, would be a handy 'filler' until employment picks up again in the industry i'm aiming at. at the same time it is going to be a fair commute [500mile p/w] so i'd like my take home to be as high as poss.
shirt said:
evening,
i have a 2nd interview on monday. i have been informed [via agency] that 4 people have been called back and 2 positions are available.
at the first interview they asked me what my salary expectations were. this threw me as i was going to ask them the reverse as i'd only been informed of the vacancy [again via agency] 2 days prior. i just told them my previous salary and that in all honesty i'd expect the maximum they were willing to offer.
chatting to another agency yesterday, i was told the company in question have a reputation for paying industry minimums.
how should i approach a salary discussion? at the interview or just discuss general terms/ranges then wait until an offer is on the table to haggle?
its not my dream job, would be a handy 'filler' until employment picks up again in the industry i'm aiming at. at the same time it is going to be a fair commute [500mile p/w] so i'd like my take home to be as high as poss.
This concerns me,i have a 2nd interview on monday. i have been informed [via agency] that 4 people have been called back and 2 positions are available.
at the first interview they asked me what my salary expectations were. this threw me as i was going to ask them the reverse as i'd only been informed of the vacancy [again via agency] 2 days prior. i just told them my previous salary and that in all honesty i'd expect the maximum they were willing to offer.
chatting to another agency yesterday, i was told the company in question have a reputation for paying industry minimums.
how should i approach a salary discussion? at the interview or just discuss general terms/ranges then wait until an offer is on the table to haggle?
its not my dream job, would be a handy 'filler' until employment picks up again in the industry i'm aiming at. at the same time it is going to be a fair commute [500mile p/w] so i'd like my take home to be as high as poss.
It is not unheard of for another agency to try and bad mouth your current interviews in the hope you drop them for something they are offering,
I also really would not tell other agencies where you are interviewing as I guarantee they will put the phone down to you, ring said company and sell YOU in (knowing full well that you have got to the second stage so are obviously a good match)
Very risky business, best of luck however.
possibly, i didn't think of that [still pretty green re: dealing with agencies]. i do have quite a good rapport with the 2 i use most frequently so hopefully he's not done what you suggest [i.e .ring that company].
thanks for the goodwill. i think i'd have to feck up considerably not to get one of the roles [i even knew one of the interviewers professionally and both of them had previously worked for the company i just left] but don't want to sell myself cheaply, especially if its nota long term proposition.
thanks for the goodwill. i think i'd have to feck up considerably not to get one of the roles [i even knew one of the interviewers professionally and both of them had previously worked for the company i just left] but don't want to sell myself cheaply, especially if its nota long term proposition.
My advice (as an evil agent type, that just happens to be a PH'er) would be to go in with a figure you think you are worth. So for example you are currently on a salary of £40K per annum, but feel you are worth £48K per annum, but would really like £50K per annum. Start at £50K per annum and see what the prospective employer comes back with.
Ok, reasoning behind the madness above is that it is easy to negotiate down, i.e. you say £46K per annum, the hiring manager offers £44K per annum, its a fair offer but you cannot negotiate up. Going high leaves a) you room for negotiation and b) shows you feel worth, your not going in cheap because you doubt yourself. Sell yourself short and you will be. We all aim for the role we would like to work in and sometimes put salary as a secondary driver, however there is no reason you cannot have the salary you desire as well as the job you desire so don't be nervous of asking for what you feel you are worth.
Ok, reasoning behind the madness above is that it is easy to negotiate down, i.e. you say £46K per annum, the hiring manager offers £44K per annum, its a fair offer but you cannot negotiate up. Going high leaves a) you room for negotiation and b) shows you feel worth, your not going in cheap because you doubt yourself. Sell yourself short and you will be. We all aim for the role we would like to work in and sometimes put salary as a secondary driver, however there is no reason you cannot have the salary you desire as well as the job you desire so don't be nervous of asking for what you feel you are worth.
Very cynical Chris OCR! I'm sure there are agents who would do that but I would be equally confident most would not. They will definitely try and talk down current opportunities and talk up their own, but that's just sales really. If they are out and out lying or seriously badmouthing companies then they are best avoided. Anyway, don't worry about the other agency or the companies supposed reputation. See if/what they offer you and go from there.
Have you spoken to your agent about money? He should have at least broached the subject with you and made sure there's a close enough match before arranging an interview. Usually an offer will be put through the agent anyway.
The only real value you can place on it, is what the job is worth to you, compared to what you can earn elsewhere how much you will enjoy the job (or not) and what this is worth to you. Think this through carefully before you go in to discuss salary, I would decide on a target figure and a minimum that would make the job worthwhile for you.
After that I would be fairly straight up with the agent. Tell him what you want. If he's any good he will at this stage be finding out what the least you will take is - no harm in telling him, and trying to find out from the employer what is the most they will pay. Remember the agent gets a percentage with perm roles so it's in his interests to get you the most he can, but he gets nothing if it falls through, so he has to be realistic.
Have you spoken to your agent about money? He should have at least broached the subject with you and made sure there's a close enough match before arranging an interview. Usually an offer will be put through the agent anyway.
The only real value you can place on it, is what the job is worth to you, compared to what you can earn elsewhere how much you will enjoy the job (or not) and what this is worth to you. Think this through carefully before you go in to discuss salary, I would decide on a target figure and a minimum that would make the job worthwhile for you.
After that I would be fairly straight up with the agent. Tell him what you want. If he's any good he will at this stage be finding out what the least you will take is - no harm in telling him, and trying to find out from the employer what is the most they will pay. Remember the agent gets a percentage with perm roles so it's in his interests to get you the most he can, but he gets nothing if it falls through, so he has to be realistic.
thanks for that ajs, I wondered what the agent's role in it was.
tbh I've only spoken to him twice. the first because he'd seen my cv online and could get me an interview the next day, then again yesterday (after 2 weeks silence on his part) telling me about round 2. I'll give him a ring monday morning to discuss it.
tbh I've only spoken to him twice. the first because he'd seen my cv online and could get me an interview the next day, then again yesterday (after 2 weeks silence on his part) telling me about round 2. I'll give him a ring monday morning to discuss it.
Do that shirt. I would also ask about the process from this point forward, and anything else you are unsure about.
I'm looking for a less harsh word than shoddy, but getting a CV off the internet then arranging an interview without discussing salary with you, or by the sounds of it, with the company either, does not sound great.
It is the way with many consultants though, and it's not to say that the job, the client or anything else is wrong. Just make sure to ask everything you are not sure of.
Broadly speaking the role of a consultant is to act as a go between for companies and candidates. This varies between high street agencies who have a huge pool of candidates available almost immediately to specialist headhunters who know their market well and can approach highly specialised candidates where an advert or direct approach by the client company would not work.
Most are somewhere in between - typically they have a number of clients whose requirements they broadly know, and then aim to find candidates who fill these, and make the match. It saves the clients from keeping a database of candidates, spending money on advertising and spending a lot of time filtering out unsuitable candidates.
Another advantage is that they can act as a go between for questions like salary, or anything else that may be a bit awkward to discuss directly at interview.
Ideally, in my opinion, a good consultant should manage the recruitment process so that there are no surprises. On the candidate side, finding out what a candidate is looking for, what salary he needs to move, and anything else that will affect that decision, and on the client side, knowing the clients hiring process, who is involved, what they are looking for etc etc. On both sides they need to manage expectations, and guide the two parties to the best outcome.
I'm looking for a less harsh word than shoddy, but getting a CV off the internet then arranging an interview without discussing salary with you, or by the sounds of it, with the company either, does not sound great.
It is the way with many consultants though, and it's not to say that the job, the client or anything else is wrong. Just make sure to ask everything you are not sure of.
Broadly speaking the role of a consultant is to act as a go between for companies and candidates. This varies between high street agencies who have a huge pool of candidates available almost immediately to specialist headhunters who know their market well and can approach highly specialised candidates where an advert or direct approach by the client company would not work.
Most are somewhere in between - typically they have a number of clients whose requirements they broadly know, and then aim to find candidates who fill these, and make the match. It saves the clients from keeping a database of candidates, spending money on advertising and spending a lot of time filtering out unsuitable candidates.
Another advantage is that they can act as a go between for questions like salary, or anything else that may be a bit awkward to discuss directly at interview.
Ideally, in my opinion, a good consultant should manage the recruitment process so that there are no surprises. On the candidate side, finding out what a candidate is looking for, what salary he needs to move, and anything else that will affect that decision, and on the client side, knowing the clients hiring process, who is involved, what they are looking for etc etc. On both sides they need to manage expectations, and guide the two parties to the best outcome.
AJS- said:
Very cynical Chris OCR! I'm sure there are agents who would do that but I would be equally confident most would not. They will definitely try and talk down current opportunities and talk up their own, but that's just sales really. If they are out and out lying or seriously badmouthing companies then they are best avoided. Anyway, don't worry about the other agency or the companies supposed reputation. See if/what they offer you and go from there.
Have you spoken to your agent about money? He should have at least broached the subject with you and made sure there's a close enough match before arranging an interview. Usually an offer will be put through the agent anyway.
The only real value you can place on it, is what the job is worth to you, compared to what you can earn elsewhere how much you will enjoy the job (or not) and what this is worth to you. Think this through carefully before you go in to discuss salary, I would decide on a target figure and a minimum that would make the job worthwhile for you.
After that I would be fairly straight up with the agent. Tell him what you want. If he's any good he will at this stage be finding out what the least you will take is - no harm in telling him, and trying to find out from the employer what is the most they will pay. Remember the agent gets a percentage with perm roles so it's in his interests to get you the most he can, but he gets nothing if it falls through, so he has to be realistic.
It isn't a case of being cynical, it is a case of being realistic!Have you spoken to your agent about money? He should have at least broached the subject with you and made sure there's a close enough match before arranging an interview. Usually an offer will be put through the agent anyway.
The only real value you can place on it, is what the job is worth to you, compared to what you can earn elsewhere how much you will enjoy the job (or not) and what this is worth to you. Think this through carefully before you go in to discuss salary, I would decide on a target figure and a minimum that would make the job worthwhile for you.
After that I would be fairly straight up with the agent. Tell him what you want. If he's any good he will at this stage be finding out what the least you will take is - no harm in telling him, and trying to find out from the employer what is the most they will pay. Remember the agent gets a percentage with perm roles so it's in his interests to get you the most he can, but he gets nothing if it falls through, so he has to be realistic.
dont price yourself too high...
I went for a TAM job and they knew what I was on and I wanted a little bit more circa 55-60k as I was on 50k...
Agent went in all guns blazing and said £65k was the lowest I would accept...
They refused and binned my CV, I was the only person to pass the 2 interviews and the grilling by the head of the Paris team (he flew into meet me)...
I was livid and pissed off at the agent, but nothing I could do after I heard what she did to me.
They wouldnt even take a direct phone call from me to discuss lowering the expectations.
Edit to add....
Job is still there after 8 months:
http://www.ullink.com/index.php?page=careers#a5
Damn I should get someone to apply with the knowledge I know and it would be a breeze!!
I went for a TAM job and they knew what I was on and I wanted a little bit more circa 55-60k as I was on 50k...
Agent went in all guns blazing and said £65k was the lowest I would accept...
They refused and binned my CV, I was the only person to pass the 2 interviews and the grilling by the head of the Paris team (he flew into meet me)...
I was livid and pissed off at the agent, but nothing I could do after I heard what she did to me.
They wouldnt even take a direct phone call from me to discuss lowering the expectations.
Edit to add....
Job is still there after 8 months:
http://www.ullink.com/index.php?page=careers#a5
Damn I should get someone to apply with the knowledge I know and it would be a breeze!!
Edited by Dupont666 on Monday 1st March 12:06
Interesting this as I have a 3rd (final) interview on Friday. I put my salary on my covering letter. At 2nd stage I was told my salary was an 'issue' i.e too high. This genuinely surprised me as I have worked for the same parent company before and my salary is top end but I have 13 years experience, plus why take me through two interviews. So do I stick to my guns on Friday by asking for more or risk them taking on a graduate to save £15K a year?
AJS- said:
Do that shirt. I would also ask about the process from this point forward, and anything else you are unsure about.
I'm looking for a less harsh word than shoddy, but getting a CV off the internet then arranging an interview without discussing salary with you, or by the sounds of it, with the company either, does not sound great.
It is the way with many consultants though, and it's not to say that the job, the client or anything else is wrong. Just make sure to ask everything you are not sure of.
the agent is a muppet plain and simple. i called this morning to talk about it and it was like having a conversation with some east end wideboy. he said they'd not discussed salary, that as its a specialist role i should expect to be paid accordingly and that i should question it at the interview. coming on top of how he's managed things so far it was hard to keep myself from telling him he's a tosser. he didn't know if there was any more to the process after today, didn't know a great deal tbh.I'm looking for a less harsh word than shoddy, but getting a CV off the internet then arranging an interview without discussing salary with you, or by the sounds of it, with the company either, does not sound great.
It is the way with many consultants though, and it's not to say that the job, the client or anything else is wrong. Just make sure to ask everything you are not sure of.
i didn't bring up salary, i thought it better to discuss terms when there's an offer on the table. they know what i was on at my old role and whilst i am currently unemployed that i expect at least to match it. as it really is only going to be a stopgap for me i have a lower limit i'd be happy with in the short term.
now, as to the interview itself, it wasn't really one at all. i had the technical grilling in round 1 and a very thorough grilling it was. this was a tour of the facilities with the relevant director as well as a general chat about the company/markets/etc.
there are 6 people on the shortlist for 2 vacancies. i gather that the others are mainly phd level specialists with some relevant practical experience. i, on the other hand, have plenty of practical experience but with a masters in a totally unrelated area. on the tour i talked a lot about the processes, but found it hard to ask questions [i.e. look/sound interested] as i was familiar with 90% of what i saw. there were no questions from him really and we didn't get time for pleasantries at the end as he was late for a meeting.
so, i'm thinking of upping my 'this guy is interested' quotient by dropping him an email tomorrow summing up what i think/feel about the role/company. good idea or bad idea?
escargot said:
Dupont666 said:
Agent went in all guns blazing and said £65k was the lowest I would accept...
Talk about cutting your nose off....
h and I will never be using that agency again as I spent a lot of time off work going to the interviews and work were getting a little pissed...Dupont666 said:
dont price yourself too high...
I went for a TAM job and they knew what I was on and I wanted a little bit more circa 55-60k as I was on 50k...
Agent went in all guns blazing and said £65k was the lowest I would accept...
They refused and binned my CV, I was the only person to pass the 2 interviews and the grilling by the head of the Paris team (he flew into meet me)...
I was livid and pissed off at the agent, but nothing I could do after I heard what she did to me.
They wouldnt even take a direct phone call from me to discuss lowering the expectations.
Edit to add....
Job is still there after 8 months:
http://www.ullink.com/index.php?page=careers#a5
Damn I should get someone to apply with the knowledge I know and it would be a breeze!!
Interesting point indeed. At my last company we had someone go through the process and then ask for £5k above what we had told his consultant right at the end. The MD took it badly and told us to tell him to "'eff off".I went for a TAM job and they knew what I was on and I wanted a little bit more circa 55-60k as I was on 50k...
Agent went in all guns blazing and said £65k was the lowest I would accept...
They refused and binned my CV, I was the only person to pass the 2 interviews and the grilling by the head of the Paris team (he flew into meet me)...
I was livid and pissed off at the agent, but nothing I could do after I heard what she did to me.
They wouldnt even take a direct phone call from me to discuss lowering the expectations.
Edit to add....
Job is still there after 8 months:
http://www.ullink.com/index.php?page=careers#a5
Damn I should get someone to apply with the knowledge I know and it would be a breeze!!
Edited by Dupont666 on Monday 1st March 12:06
I'm at this stage now and whilst some companies don't seem to care about £5-£10 extra, some seem to take it the wrong way.
AJS- said:
Dupont
I would go straight back to the company directly if you are still interested.
I'm fairly sure 6 months is the life span of an agency introduction, so after 8 months you are fine to go back and speak to them directly, without the agent cocking it up.
If I get bored of the current contracting role then I may just do that...I would go straight back to the company directly if you are still interested.
I'm fairly sure 6 months is the life span of an agency introduction, so after 8 months you are fine to go back and speak to them directly, without the agent cocking it up.
At the moment its fun if not frustrating when it comes to working in my current job
Chris_OCR said:
It isn't a case of being cynical, it is a case of being realistic!
I think Chris has it spot on. The recruitment industry is full of people with no scruples, not entirely full, but not far off.Just make sure they know you're prepared to be flexible and negotiate and then actually be prepared to negotiate.
AJS- said:
Dupont
I would go straight back to the company directly if you are still interested.
I'm fairly sure 6 months is the life span of an agency introduction, so after 8 months you are fine to go back and speak to them directly, without the agent cocking it up.
It varies to be fair between 6 and 12 months, the majority will be the latter.I would go straight back to the company directly if you are still interested.
I'm fairly sure 6 months is the life span of an agency introduction, so after 8 months you are fine to go back and speak to them directly, without the agent cocking it up.
Do the intervuiews to the best of your ability and (assuming they make an offer) then decide...it depends on how desperate you are for work. If you need the cash then take it and keep an eye out for the next job opportunity, if you dont then say thanks but no thanks, you have my number if you change your mind.
Its like bidding on EBay, just be absolutely certain as to what you final figure is and stick to it.
Its like bidding on EBay, just be absolutely certain as to what you final figure is and stick to it.
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