NOS addition to a ZZ4 355hp.
Discussion
OK guys, having spoken to real-steel they tell me the only real cheap and effective way to get real serious additional HP is via NOS. They sell a "Sniper" system which adds an adapter plate to the carb, and a switch to turn on the NOS only at full throtle - any they suggest only on 3rd 4th and fifth grears.(?) The NOS "kit" is around £400 all in, and gives a claimed additional 75-100BHP. Anyone had experience of NOS? Sounds a bit on or off ish to me! Suddenly getting an additinal 100BHP kick in an instant could be interesting.....just as your parking up in tesco's! Suggestions? Yes or no to NOS?
There are many systems on the market but you want to look for some or all of the following features:-
WOT switch.
Fuel pressure cut out. If you loose fuel pressure but continue to spray NOS the engine will blow big time.
The spray bars in the carb spacer is OK
Rev window switch. MSD do one that just plugs in. Limits a start and finish rev range and uses the same plug in rev modules as the 6AL.
An advance/retard unit that alters the ignition timing to better suit the NOS.
Progressive NOS controller. Alters the rate at which the NOS and Fuel valves are pulsed. You can map when and how much NOS you get.
The one thing I don’t know is how legal the whole thing is. Will it invalidate your insurance.
Steve
WOT switch.
Fuel pressure cut out. If you loose fuel pressure but continue to spray NOS the engine will blow big time.
The spray bars in the carb spacer is OK
Rev window switch. MSD do one that just plugs in. Limits a start and finish rev range and uses the same plug in rev modules as the 6AL.
An advance/retard unit that alters the ignition timing to better suit the NOS.
Progressive NOS controller. Alters the rate at which the NOS and Fuel valves are pulsed. You can map when and how much NOS you get.
The one thing I don’t know is how legal the whole thing is. Will it invalidate your insurance.
Steve
thanks Steve, good points. Will need to tell insurance I suspect... but have heard that as long as you have sticker on the car saying "NOS on board" thats the only legal requirement it seems! No sticker and you can get fined cos its a compressed gas. Not sure about channel ferry or the tunnel? Heard that any gas bottle is banned?? EG you cant go down the tunnel to france with a car running on LPG for example!
Will the rear conopy still shut on your spyder with the 1inch spacer.... my can-am's wouldn't as the filter would then be too high.
NoS is an increadable, it will give you an unrivaled power derlivery as it will give the power all the way.
I am concerned though Paul..... do you normally use full throttle in Tesco's car park?
I'm not personnely sold on the stuff but to give you an example of the potential.
My local garage that built my cossie engine has a similar spec (ie real 350bhp) engine with 4x4 running gear in an old escort van...... they added 120bhp of Nos for around £500 last week for magazine testing.
They did 0-60mph in 3.9's in the wet and 3.4's in the dry with a 0-100 in 8.5's and a quarter mile in 11.9's......
Insurance will be a nightmare though! although I think adrian flux now cover NoS.
NoS is an increadable, it will give you an unrivaled power derlivery as it will give the power all the way.
I am concerned though Paul..... do you normally use full throttle in Tesco's car park?
I'm not personnely sold on the stuff but to give you an example of the potential.
My local garage that built my cossie engine has a similar spec (ie real 350bhp) engine with 4x4 running gear in an old escort van...... they added 120bhp of Nos for around £500 last week for magazine testing.
They did 0-60mph in 3.9's in the wet and 3.4's in the dry with a 0-100 in 8.5's and a quarter mile in 11.9's......
Insurance will be a nightmare though! although I think adrian flux now cover NoS.
NOS systems are great at adding "cheap" horespower but you do have a few things to consider. For larger amounts of NOS you will have to look to see what pistons you currently have, forged last the longest. There are several systems that can stage the NOS. Have the NOS solenoid open and close(like a fuel injector) for a specified amount of time, dependant on RPM. The carb plate is fine for smaller amounts of NOS, however a "fogger" system will distribute the NOS and fuel more evenly. Several sensors are needed, the fuel pressure sensor has been mentioned, also a stand alone O2 sensor, NOS pressure, and in extreme systems, cylinder head temp sensor is recomended. The type of spark plug that you used will also change, Usualy cooler to avoid melting the electrodes. A lot of work goes into a good NOS system, my suggestion, do LOTS of homework first then buy the gas.
Hi Guys,
Just thought I would chuck in my bit.
I have a Cobra with a 350ci SBC running approx 350bhp.
I also went for the NOS Sniper system as it was the cheap entry level and I didn't want a stroker as I wanted to enjoy 'normal' driving with out filling up every 10 miles.
So NOS was the best compromise, normal running and big power when I needed it.
When the engine was built I spec'd forged pistons, but if you haven't got them it doesn't matter, just don't go more than 100 - 125bhp.
The sniper system will run up to 175 bhp as the solenoids are identical to a bigger kit. They are just cheaper finished brass items. NOS in the States confirmed this to me.
However if you want to do things properly with NOS I suggest you triple your initial outlay, EVEN FOR A BUDGET LOW BHP SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In addition I have fitted a Jacobs Ultra Coil and Prostreet, a cap adapter for the HEI and better leads. The plugs still need to be changed. This is to boost the electrical performance of the engine to ensure the spark is stronger and doesn't get blown out.
I have also fitted a fuel safety cut out switch, a separate fuel pump, supply regulator and pressure gauge for the NOS system, as it needs a perfect supply. I need to fit a regulated bottle warmer to keep the gas at the optimum operating temperature. More expense!
The icing on the cake (currently sat in my kitchen) is a Jacobs Nitrous Mastermind. This will manage the NOS. It has the ability to set a rev limit where the gas flows, a rev limiter to cut it off, and then cur the normal engine revs a few hundred rpm later, and a percentage flow rate.
So effectively you could program the gas to flow at 3000 rpm, at 50% flow rate, rising to 100% flow at 5000 rpm, then limiting gas at 6100 and cutting the spark at 6300..... or any variation that suits your vehicle.
Its a few hundred quid but definitely the best and safest way to protect your engine and get the best most tractable performance from the system, therefore 2nd gear wouldn’t be a problem.
Oh, I forget to add, you need more money for a couple of rolling roads. You need one before you turn the gas on to ensure you have the engine running to its optimum efficient level. Bench tested doesn't count as installation effects air and gas flows.
My engine was fine on a bench then was running way to lean under load when I tested it in the car. If I had dumped gas in at this point it would have run way to lean and eventually lunched the motor.
I hope that’s enough to go on. It’s belt and braces for an entry system, but I will be able to say that if it dumps 150 bhp of Nitrous, then it genuinely will do what it says on the tin, and in a controllable manner!
If you have any questions please ask as I’ve bound to have forgotten something.
Cheers
Skid
p.s. The adapter plate is about .75 of an inch.
p.p.s Real Steel were shit. They told me different advise everytime I went there. All contradictory and all relating to what was in stock.
I think the guys on the store are bench professionals having read everything but never really done it.
Sorry but honest services counts for me. The best advice I have had is from pro's who have done it before.
>> Edited by skid on Monday 16th February 11:15
Just thought I would chuck in my bit.
I have a Cobra with a 350ci SBC running approx 350bhp.
I also went for the NOS Sniper system as it was the cheap entry level and I didn't want a stroker as I wanted to enjoy 'normal' driving with out filling up every 10 miles.
So NOS was the best compromise, normal running and big power when I needed it.
When the engine was built I spec'd forged pistons, but if you haven't got them it doesn't matter, just don't go more than 100 - 125bhp.
The sniper system will run up to 175 bhp as the solenoids are identical to a bigger kit. They are just cheaper finished brass items. NOS in the States confirmed this to me.
However if you want to do things properly with NOS I suggest you triple your initial outlay, EVEN FOR A BUDGET LOW BHP SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In addition I have fitted a Jacobs Ultra Coil and Prostreet, a cap adapter for the HEI and better leads. The plugs still need to be changed. This is to boost the electrical performance of the engine to ensure the spark is stronger and doesn't get blown out.
I have also fitted a fuel safety cut out switch, a separate fuel pump, supply regulator and pressure gauge for the NOS system, as it needs a perfect supply. I need to fit a regulated bottle warmer to keep the gas at the optimum operating temperature. More expense!
The icing on the cake (currently sat in my kitchen) is a Jacobs Nitrous Mastermind. This will manage the NOS. It has the ability to set a rev limit where the gas flows, a rev limiter to cut it off, and then cur the normal engine revs a few hundred rpm later, and a percentage flow rate.
So effectively you could program the gas to flow at 3000 rpm, at 50% flow rate, rising to 100% flow at 5000 rpm, then limiting gas at 6100 and cutting the spark at 6300..... or any variation that suits your vehicle.
Its a few hundred quid but definitely the best and safest way to protect your engine and get the best most tractable performance from the system, therefore 2nd gear wouldn’t be a problem.
Oh, I forget to add, you need more money for a couple of rolling roads. You need one before you turn the gas on to ensure you have the engine running to its optimum efficient level. Bench tested doesn't count as installation effects air and gas flows.
My engine was fine on a bench then was running way to lean under load when I tested it in the car. If I had dumped gas in at this point it would have run way to lean and eventually lunched the motor.
I hope that’s enough to go on. It’s belt and braces for an entry system, but I will be able to say that if it dumps 150 bhp of Nitrous, then it genuinely will do what it says on the tin, and in a controllable manner!
If you have any questions please ask as I’ve bound to have forgotten something.
Cheers
Skid
p.s. The adapter plate is about .75 of an inch.
p.p.s Real Steel were shit. They told me different advise everytime I went there. All contradictory and all relating to what was in stock.
I think the guys on the store are bench professionals having read everything but never really done it. Sorry but honest services counts for me. The best advice I have had is from pro's who have done it before.
>> Edited by skid on Monday 16th February 11:15
WoW! Thanks for that..... And I thought it was real easy... like in the film 2 fast 2 furious! Just push this small button on the dash and everything goes like Star Ship enterprise going into warp speed! Good advice though. If not real steel - any good guys in the south to work with?
shithotfast said:
WoW! Thanks for that..... And I thought it was real easy... like in the film 2 fast 2 furious! Just push this small button on the dash and everything goes like Star Ship enterprise going into warp speed!
I can suggest you get all the kit and give it a go as you are going a very similar route to me. I spent many hours researching it and ended up using a professional drag racer and some amatuer drag bike racers who happen to have engineering degrees in fluid dynamics!!!! Handy people and none were selling me anything.
Let me know when you are thinking of purchasing and I will ask if they mind me forwarding their details.
A good start point will be the supplier of Jacobs Electronics in the UK. Can't remember the name but small company based near Camberley I think (near you) and can be contacted by doing a search for Jacobs US site then looking for the UK importer. The owner is a guy called Mark, say you were referred by me (Mark with the black Cobra) and if you bulk buy the kit and ask nicely I'm pretty sure you will get a deal. Mark was very helpful to me, including a midnight call as I lay over my engine bay scrathing my head... and arse!!!!
Skid
Brian Jackett said:
There is always the hot cam kit, 1.6 rockers + springs extra 40 ish hp takes it to 395hp
How much is this kit, how hard to install and how much would it affect the drivability/tractability of the motor???
I have got the cam details of mine somewhere (must dig out tonight) and have wondered what a cam upgrade would do.
I don't need anything with an effective rev range to 7k for example as while I think the internals are ok, I have a stock flywheel and don't want the thing disintegrating and taking out my legs with bits of ring gear!
Skid
>> Edited by skid on Tuesday 17th February 11:10
If you have all the details of your engine build and the make and number of the new cam I can run it on a program called Desktop Dyno to find out what difference the cam will make.
You do need to be careful if you add a higher lift cam and 1.6 rockers that you have enough valve opening before the springs coil bind.
Steve
You do need to be careful if you add a higher lift cam and 1.6 rockers that you have enough valve opening before the springs coil bind.
Steve
steve_D said:
If you have all the details of your engine build and the make and number of the new cam I can run it on a program called Desktop Dyno to find out what difference the cam will make.
You do need to be careful if you add a higher lift cam and 1.6 rockers that you have enough valve opening before the springs coil bind.
Steve
Cheers Steve.
Will take you up on that hopefully soon.
Skid
steve_D said:
If you have all the details of your engine build and the make and number of the new cam I can run it on a program called Desktop Dyno to find out what difference the cam will make.
You do need to be careful if you add a higher lift cam and 1.6 rockers that you have enough valve opening before the springs coil bind.
Steve
Hi Steve.
Engine details 350SBC
Forged Pistons
HEI with cap adapter, ultra coil and prostreet
Heads Pro topline iron (2.02 & 1.6)
timing 12' @ idle, 36' @ full advance (vacuum off)
Cam 284' duration 228' @ 0.050 thou lift, 0.480 thou gross
fuel @ 6 psi
K&N high flow on balanced holly600 cfm
High flow headers and pipes
I believe there are also hydraulic lifters though can't confirm tonight.
It runs very well and tractable though I suspect it's not really running the full 350 bhp @ the flywheel that the builder said it should. (sounds familiar??? ha ha)
What do you reckon it could cope with, without becoming a nightmare to drive normally?
Cheers
Skid
Skid
I need more.
Piston type, flat, dome, dish. Size of valve relief, dome,dish in CC.
Bore size. Is it overbored, by how much. Has the block been decked. (Not needed for dyno but for interest any casting numbers and the stamped engine number just in front of the cylinder head by cyl.2)
Do you know a part number for that cam. Is that lift the gross lift and if so is it with 1.5 or 1.6 rockers. Will need lobe separation angle and intake centreline.
Single or dual plane intake.
Head chamber volume like 64 or 72cc. Head port size like 180 or 200cc. Are there any part numbers on the heads.
Do you know what the bottom end is? Crank type/material, rods, bolt make i.e. ARP.
Quick play with lots of guesses gives 386hp at 6000rpm & 374 torque at 4500rpm.
DD2000 is often a little generous but give a good comparison when playing with different bits.
Will be working away until Thursday evening. See if you can find more info.
Steve
I need more.
Piston type, flat, dome, dish. Size of valve relief, dome,dish in CC.
Bore size. Is it overbored, by how much. Has the block been decked. (Not needed for dyno but for interest any casting numbers and the stamped engine number just in front of the cylinder head by cyl.2)
Do you know a part number for that cam. Is that lift the gross lift and if so is it with 1.5 or 1.6 rockers. Will need lobe separation angle and intake centreline.
Single or dual plane intake.
Head chamber volume like 64 or 72cc. Head port size like 180 or 200cc. Are there any part numbers on the heads.
Do you know what the bottom end is? Crank type/material, rods, bolt make i.e. ARP.
Quick play with lots of guesses gives 386hp at 6000rpm & 374 torque at 4500rpm.
DD2000 is often a little generous but give a good comparison when playing with different bits.
Will be working away until Thursday evening. See if you can find more info.
Steve
Kit cost is really cheap as it is from states and exchange rate is 1.9 at the moment.
I think works out like £300, to install will need to take off inlet manifold remove lifters, rockers, tappets and springs and cam.
Springs can be taken off and put on by putting in compressed air in cylinders to hold valves in place, so no need to take of head
regards
Brian
I think works out like £300, to install will need to take off inlet manifold remove lifters, rockers, tappets and springs and cam.
Springs can be taken off and put on by putting in compressed air in cylinders to hold valves in place, so no need to take of head
regards
Brian
Brian Jackett said:
Springs can be taken off and put on by putting in compressed air in cylinders to hold valves in place, so no need to take of head
regards
Brian
If you don't have compressed air and the fittings.
Take piston down and feed some soft rope into the sparkplug hole. Bring piston back up to compress the rope. This will prevent the valve moving while the spring is changed.
Steve
My mate has got the 100BHP sniper kit (from real-steel), i think its for sale. Works ok, but big shots of nos on his chevy powered series 1 hybrid (land rover!) - was a bit of a handfull.
He told me he could only hit the button when on a dual carriageway (not becuase there straight, but becuase they are wide!!)
Drop me a line if interested and i'll ask for you.
Oh, and WRT insurance, Adrian Flux said i can do anything i want to the engine (super/turbocharge) with no additional premium, but no NOS. (dont think my mate bothered telling his insurance Co.)
e.
>> Edited by eliot on Wednesday 18th February 22:01
He told me he could only hit the button when on a dual carriageway (not becuase there straight, but becuase they are wide!!)
Drop me a line if interested and i'll ask for you.
Oh, and WRT insurance, Adrian Flux said i can do anything i want to the engine (super/turbocharge) with no additional premium, but no NOS. (dont think my mate bothered telling his insurance Co.)
e.
>> Edited by eliot on Wednesday 18th February 22:01
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